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EnglishSnake wrote:

Generally we have the rock/paper and scissor scenario

Rock - Vehicles - Made to generally tank small arms fire and be fine from scissors

Paper - AV - Hurts Rock but is weak to scissors

Scissors - Infantry - Cuts a path through everything except rock

Not to mention the whole argument about teamwork how it only takes 1 HAV driver to annoy a whole team yet the same HAV driver is asking for AV to use teamwork to kill his HAV instead of a solo monkey which whacks his 1.5mil HAV in 3shots while he sunk 10mil into vehicle skills and the AV guy barely did a quarter of it. You can see why the HAV guy gets pissed off and i don't blame him but also the AV guy is like 'well i should be able to if he's stupid enough' which is valid for stupid pilots anyways and then add in the real world argument that a RPG can disable and destroy a mulit million dollar tank/helicopter.

Both sides get pissed off and think they are right and it becomes a **** throwing forum match and i have taken part in a fair few and nothing ever comes of it and it eventually gets lost in the forums and forgotten about.

The balance is one which will never truly happen but the only way to get it about right is if both sides can agree on a number of issues and for that to happen we need all the AV equipment which is going to be added and all the vehicles aswell but until that happens the next best step we can do is balance what we have and hopefully this thread can address a few issues and also solve a few too while hopefully adding some good ideas but expect bad ones aswell.

At this current time i have 14mil SP invested into vehicles, i have both sets of HAVs (excluding useless Enforcers), armor/shield DS, armor Logi DS and a Logi LAV but i have a tried out all vehicles and destroyed all vehicles with everything the game has to offer at one point or another through the varying builds and take part in all game modes including PC where basic vehicles go against proto AV.

I dont know it all but i know quite a bit and i know what pisses me off as vehicle pilot so if im slightly bias i can't help it but i try to be on the level with what i say and i try not to repeat myself but sometimes its needed because one thing can effect something else and so on until you come full circle.

Essentially dont turn this into a **** throwing thread, disagree yes but put why and in some detail and dont have posts like 'learn to fly' which are useless because in the end both sides dont get what they want and end up in a worse position from where they started from.

Its a long thread and there is no TLDR


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Mortedeamor Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 72	Posted - 2013.06.13 11:20:00 - [1] - Quote EnglishSnake wrote: Generally we have the rock/paper and scissor scenario Rock - Vehicles - Made to generally tank small arms fire and be fine from scissors Paper - AV - Hurts Rock but is weak to scissors Scissors - Infantry - Cuts a path through everything except rock Not to mention the whole argument about teamwork how it only takes 1 HAV driver to annoy a whole team yet the same HAV driver is asking for AV to use teamwork to kill his HAV instead of a solo monkey which whacks his 1.5mil HAV in 3shots while he sunk 10mil into vehicle skills and the AV guy barely did a quarter of it. You can see why the HAV guy gets pissed off and i don't blame him but also the AV guy is like 'well i should be able to if he's stupid enough' which is valid for stupid pilots anyways and then add in the real world argument that a RPG can disable and destroy a mulit million dollar tank/helicopter. Both sides get pissed off and think they are right and it becomes a ** throwing forum match and i have taken part in a fair few and nothing ever comes of it and it eventually gets lost in the forums and forgotten about. The balance is one which will never truly happen but the only way to get it about right is if both sides can agree on a number of issues and for that to happen we need all the AV equipment which is going to be added and all the vehicles aswell but until that happens the next best step we can do is balance what we have and hopefully this thread can address a few issues and also solve a few too while hopefully adding some good ideas but expect bad ones aswell. At this current time i have 14mil SP invested into vehicles, i have both sets of HAVs (excluding useless Enforcers), armor/shield DS, armor Logi DS and a Logi LAV but i have a tried out all vehicles and destroyed all vehicles with everything the game has to offer at one point or another through the varying builds and take part in all game modes including PC where basic vehicles go against proto AV. I dont know it all but i know quite a bit and i know what pisses me off as vehicle pilot so if im slightly bias i can't help it but i try to be on the level with what i say and i try not to repeat myself but sometimes its needed because one thing can effect something else and so on until you come full circle. Essentially dont turn this into a ** throwing thread, disagree yes but put why and in some detail and dont have posts like 'learn to fly' which are useless because in the end both sides dont get what they want and end up in a worse position from where they started from. Its a long thread and there is no TLDR btw that rock paper scissors epic analogy dude. ok so im a triple spec and i run light av ina logi lav im also a logi just for backround ive tanked chromosome....build prior to chromosome in closed i was av ina logi lav. and before that again i delbed in tanks. i have only specked dropships in uprising prior to my reset to double check they're worthlessness i also specked tanks bef reset to check the caldari side...so former shield tanker here. LAV 1 the LOGI LAV is NOT overpowered. the mlt bpo bolach needs to be taken away upon graduation of the scrub academy..and maybe even made restockable at mlt isk prices. as far as lavs go the issues are as follows i feel ( without looking at base module differences and unbalances between shield and armor.) they need to have a damage counter for impacts with a body this should include dmg done to lav equal to a percentage of run over suits hp....percentage should be greater the heavier build the frame is (ex light 33% medium66%heavy99%) this should include resistances..and would effectively prevent lower end lavs from being able to murder taxi mass proto suits. as far as av goes...look at the limbus i eat limbus's for lunch PROTO AV the charybdis may seem op...but when the light forge gun or the plasma cannon (most useless av weapon ) gets reworked it will be great vs charybdis. and will balance the minor gaps between the 2 charybdis and limbus. i think we should have a skill tree to enhance the reppers on the logi lavs. i think the turrent slot should be a logi turrent only and they should give us logi turrents both shield transporters and armor reppers of various ranges and effectiveness. the acceleration needs to be nerfed....the reason with a skill tree enhancing the reppers built in. maybe multi beems, range buffs,...and a logi team using a logi lav both running complementary suits like heavy/logi and dual specced/forge /swarm.when pulling up to a team currently its just to fast ..in pc it's unpractical if they make logi lavs more logi then they need to slow them down. 2 the scout lav...the above changes to logi make it useless as a speed tank unless specifically built for just that...so scout lav...should have no turrent....should instead have onboard resupply ....should have faster accel ..needs buff to that and top speed.... 3 saga/methana.....these 2 should have an extra skill that increases the res drastically ...like 4% per lvl as well as a skill that enhances the turrents placed on you attack lav...and the back end should handle dmg equally as well as the front unlike all other lavs...the turrenter should have some form of bullet guard on his turrent... now these are just some of my idea for lavs and balance i will have more input on the tanks side later today me and a few mates are gunna test proto av dmg vs armor and shield tanks both.
Mortedeamor Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 75	Posted - 2013.06.18 11:16:00 - [2] - Quote R F Gyro wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: One proto assault scrub should not be able to solo a tank, Why not? Why should one player with one set of kit not be able to solo one player with a different set of kit? Don't come back with "its a tank" because that isn't a valid game-play argument. Also, don't say "because of ISK or SP", because I don't believe those are significant limiting factors for a large portion of the player base any more. Is there a valid argument gameplay argument for "if I spec into this I will be significantly better than if I spec into anything else"? Also, remember I'm not saying one infantry player should be able to solo a HAV whenever they want. I'm saying a 3 man AV team should be able to kill a 3 man tank crew 50% of the time. actually it makes perfect sense that a master av can solo any tank atm...think about it....if you run into a sntd suit in dust..your ina proto suit..they're gun game may even be a bit better...but its just more likely your gunna scrub em up....its called proto stomping beating the crap out of people with lesser gear. tank have no gear above stnd...ive seen the so called adv havs..and me asa proto av ive quesynced and hit a adv hav with adv av.....the need a slight buff... once tankers are given they'e proto's it will most likely take a combo of heavy av and light av to control the field....caldari proto hav would not be soloable by 1 proto swarm..
Mortedeamor Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 100	Posted - 2013.06.19 16:12:00 - [3] - Quote R F Gyro wrote: Charlotte O'Dell wrote: Mortedeamor wrote: actually it makes perfect sense that a master av can solo any tank atm...think about it....if you run into a sntd suit in dust..your ina proto suit..they're gun game may even be a bit better...but its just more likely your gunna scrub em up....its called proto stomping beating the crap out of people with lesser gear. tanks have no gear above stnd...ive seen the so called adv havs..and me asa proto av ive quesynced witha friend and hit a adv hav with adv av.....the need a slight buff... once tankers are given they're proto's it will most likely take a combo of heavy av and light av to control the field....caldari proto hav would not be soloable by 1 proto swarm..2-3 man av teams....balance This^ It's hard to say tanks are UP when we're missing more than half of them. But when we get proto tanks this whole debate will just spring up again. How is it balanced when it takes 3 players (with AV) to kill one player (in a HAV)? How does this not lead to everyone rolling around in tanks? your proto hav is gunna cost you somewhere between 2-8 million isk...my proto av rig costs me 500 k .....of course there will always be the people whining about tanks being op...and when proto tanks come out there will be thousands of scrubs crying because they cant solo one with adv gear...i on the other hand look forward to the day where i might actually need help to kill a tank
Mortedeamor Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 100	Posted - 2013.06.19 16:13:00 - [4] - Quote as a swarm av i can only compare the gallente vehicles vs av...and when using equal gear it is balanced