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EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
1201
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Posted - 2013.06.10 12:24:00 -
[1] - Quote
Preping for a thread
Mods do not move it please |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
1201
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Posted - 2013.06.10 12:24:00 -
[2] - Quote
Reserved |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
1201
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Posted - 2013.06.10 12:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
Reserved |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
1201
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Posted - 2013.06.10 12:25:00 -
[4] - Quote
Reserved |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
1201
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Posted - 2013.06.10 12:25:00 -
[5] - Quote
Reserved |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
1201
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Posted - 2013.06.10 12:25:00 -
[6] - Quote
One more for in case |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
1202
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Posted - 2013.06.10 13:25:00 -
[7] - Quote
It is done |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
1215
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Posted - 2013.06.10 14:53:00 -
[8] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:The first person to tell someone else that they are whining...releases a massive thread and qq's about AV being powerful lol
Thread is too long to read every single line but what I gathered is that this is another AV is too powerful and needs to be nerfed thread. From what I've skimmed through....I got that vehicles need to either stay where they are or get buffed. Even the LAVs ared fine according to this thread.
I dont use SLs but I use proto AV nades...and for a well fitted Madrugar or Gunnlogi, it takes about 6 Lai Dais to destroy it. Who knows what it will take to destroy a proto tank. With damage mods and passive dmg bonuses to SLs and Forges...they may do incredible damage and it is much easier to solo a tank with those weapons. But you dont get those bonuses with AV nades...they truly are a deterrent unless a tank decides to stand right in front of infantry. Because you can not solo a well-fitted tank without reloading. And if you need a team...then it's working as intended.
So basically you admit you didnt really read it yet felt fine to comment on something that you didnt read through
Go figure |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
1215
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Posted - 2013.06.10 14:58:00 -
[9] - Quote
Gold Zapa wrote:EnglishSnake wrote:Balancing
Basic problems
Militia AV - It's too good, alot of players do use them against basic vehicles, you want players to try them out sure but you also want players to specialize into AV if they like it. Reduce militia AV by 50% damage
Militia Vehicles - The LAV is generally too good now since the HP buff, even the HAV got a HP buff which wasn't needed, so remove the buff to militia vehicles, dropship stays the same. This would generally stop militia LAV as murder taxis since they would be more like paper so easier to take out
AV nades - Many assault/logis use this as their main source of AV because they are skilled mostly into their primary and dropsuit/mods, problem is they are very good for knocking out a HAV on its own, the nades should be more of a deterrent and not as a standalone AV weapon to be put next to the SL/FG/PL, it should be used with the AV weapons. I would reduce the damage by 25-50%, also it would help if we could see how much damage they do to begin with
. Realize the fact that AV nades useful to many people just the way it is,yes the Militia are a bit powerful and should fix that. However if if you were to reduce the damage of all the other AV Nades we might as well just throw rocks at the vehicles
Like i said we dont even know the damage values of AV nades to begin with
Packed AV does what 1200 or so, what the hell does proto do?
I put down 25-50% as a really rough estimate but until we get exact damage numbers then we cant really say but they are not legitimate AV, they are ther a deterent for infantry to carry and also to help out as they defend ther AV guys from infantry
They can kill a LAV fine and put some hurt and maybe even get to kill the MAVs we get but to outright kill a HAV with just AV nades? only if the pilot stays there for too long with nothing running, shouldnt be 3nades and less than half health but once again can be proto AV nades against our basic vehicles so we need our advanced/proto vehicles or temp remove proto AV |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
1215
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 14:59:00 -
[10] - Quote
calisk galern wrote:stopped reading when you said swarm launchers needed a major nerf.
they need an over haul their design is stupid for both sides, they move to slow for the fast moving vehicles of today, and deal to little damage for massive amount of resistance on them, and because of the way they track their is little to nothing you can due to compensate the speed of the vehicles.
i'd honestly rather a straight firing missle launcher as I could compensate like I would with a forge gun.
oh well, eventually something will come out I suppose, maybe an officer grade swarm that moves faster...
Never said major nerf, 2 sec maybe extra lock time, a couple of new variants mentioned, where did i say major nerf?
They move fast enough to catch up to my LAV, they turn on a sixpence instantly and are currently invisible most of the time |
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EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
1215
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 15:03:00 -
[11] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:Very nice. Just one thing I noticed: your armor rep values. It doesn't rep only five times like a shield booster. It reps 414hp every second during each three second pulse, so 15x414=6210.
Now that's almost full hp on an armor tank. It can get back into action in under a minute. Shield boosters however don't even rep half the hp on a shield tank. Now you're talking about sitting idle for minutes as you watch your booster trying to rep you, then wait for it to cooldown.
Shield boosters and armor reps need to have their pulses reversed. Shield in EVE can burst tank while armor takes sustained damage over time. Dust is the exact opposite. Not even. Shield boosters just suck compared to armor reps and armor reps can take damage over time as well as burst tanking.
Cheers for that
Armor compared to shield is chalk and cheese, if using shield it takes 3 rounds of the booster to get to near full HP if you are anywhere near 6k total shields and while its more or less instant AV in that time can deal more than your are repping where as armor doesnt have that problem
If the armor rep gets put to what it should do then tanking with change instead of repping a near full health back while AV/vehicles are hitting you
Essentially what will happen is either armor rep gets fixed and does less and shield maybe stays the same or armor rep stays as it is and description is changed and shield is given a buff to compete with armor |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
1219
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Posted - 2013.06.10 20:05:00 -
[12] - Quote
Ares 514 wrote:Just thought I would put in a couple of my thoughts on vehicles. Quick disclaimer, I am pro Infantry!
- Any AV grenade (including militia, not that I use them) should blow up the free LAV's. If you want it to last pay for it!
- They HAVE to fix the Nanite Injector for when you are ran down by an LAV. How many times have you lost your expensive suit to being ran down and had multiple medics trying to needle you to no avail?
- Heck, they need to fix the whole being ran down by an LAV mechanics, lets get some kind of damage dealt relation to speed traveling factors in here. If an LAV taps you then you should not be dead. Overall you should not die from being hit by an LAV unless it's traveling at a decent clip.
- Swarm launchers have some of the stupidest targeting mechanics I've ever seen. Ever watched someone drive away from your missiles? Or watched the missiles turn into a wall just because the HAV backed up 3 meters?
- In my opinion, 2 Infantry working together with AV builds should be able to destroy an HAV (unless he kills them first).
- The seek on AV grenades is broken at times, especially with fast moving LAV's. I've literally thrown an AV grenade directly at an oncoming LAV and heard a 'clink' as I watched it bounce off the vehicle... needless to say some harsh words followed on my part.
- Stop the stealth Vehicles! LAV's and HAV's should ALWAYS show up on your mini map regardless of the direction your facing. We've all been looking right at that mini-map and not seen the LAV or HAV drive up right behind us to murder us. I would go further and say that there should be two ranges for scanning, one for Infantry and one for Vehicles.
I think addressing the instant kill by LAV tap and fixing it so the needle works when you are ran down by an LAV would make the infantry side much much happier.
1. Fine - milita LAVs should be paper
2. Not a vehicle problem but yeah screws over logis
3. I murder taxi quite a bit and generally dont get many if any at slow speeds, sometimes i get if i push them for a way and pick up speed or get them under the wheels. Generally i hit em at full speed or at a decent fast enough speed
4. I try and drive away from missiles, sometimes i get lucky but generally i dont and they hit me, if anything if i do get obsticles in the way then im okay but when im in my HAV im generally too big of a target to miss
5 Is that 2 AV guy at the same level trying to destroy a vehicle also at the same level like 2 basic vs 1 basic vehicle? if so i do generally agree
6. LAVs main defence is speed or its what i mainly use, AV nades have bounced off mine because im going too fast and they blow up after ive gone or they home in and slingshot off sometimes, if im slower they tend to hit and blow up so far i think if the LAV is at top speed or close to it then its fine because if that AV hit everytime when your at full speed it doesnt matter how good a driver you are it will always hit
7. Generally i would prefer that ive you look at it, it comes up or if you are in range and your dropsuit pick the vehicle signal up and same for vehicles, i can be driving around and i dont see anything then it pops up after ive nearly hit it, not that important to me as such but more annoying that anything |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
1220
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 20:16:00 -
[13] - Quote
Wakko03 wrote:I must say that this got me to chuckle....OH AND THIS IS SO FEEDBACK> move it that way...
Failed to see where 'webifiers' fit into you jumble, you know so vehicles can't speed away, failed to see the kill feed ruled by proximity mine kills even though there are 5 lav's rolling about, no complaining about them I see... as you probably have never been killed by them.
Case in point, my La Dai's are only meta level 8 or 9, I forget right now.... where are the 10's or don't they have them? I have them on a skinweave heavy with a militia forge gun, so I can soften up the tank before the primary kicks in, I'm holding off on going full racial heavy because I learned my lesson when CCP burned me by forcing me to get basic to level 5 before changing it.
It must be nice to know exactly how much damage your tank can do, as my AV grenades don't tell me that basic fact.
You choose to go into vehicles, while sacrificing the basic name of the game, infantry combat, if you are useless without your vehicle and expect to use the same one multiple matches without running into something that can wipe the floor with you, how is that any different than the I just want to win button. Is it a useful tool, sure is but if you don't hack the necessary points and are hiding so far behind the redline that swarms can't even hit while still popping the random enemy that appears in your narrow field of attack I don't want you on my team.
In This corner the challenger;
I only get three AV/ Flux grenades, and a primary weapon with maybe 20 shots or so that can hit you before I need to resupply, which means - die or get lucky and hope one of these supposed logi's has a nano-hive, limited stamina. 1 shot kill victim to core flaylock, forge gun, lav hit, and loss of the ability to aim when hit by mass driver rounds.
-vs-
In the other corner the champion;
Unlimited stamina, ie it can go full speed all the time. Unlimited ammo, for possibly 3 turrets, and the ability to get 3 players more wp's than 1 man can do for destroying it, even if all three members of one squad were close enough to each other to get a killing shot on you. With enough enemies shooting you it may seem like you got OHK, but has that ever happend - I seriously doubt it.
Oh, I do plan on going into vehicles one day again, but not until I have a reason to.
Webifiers dont exist so no mention
Proxy mines no one seems to use, not my fault
As i said we dont have the stats for the AV nade on how much damage they do, i said that in my OP didnt you read it?
I win button yea it nice but proto AV is the I win button against basic vehicles, we could temp remove them until we get advanced/proto vehicles but that aint going to happen at all
So the challenger is afraid of teamwork and wants to solo that vehicle by the sounds of it or you just described a pub match
Yes it can move all the time i hope it should have an engine, unlimited ammo because we do not have a cargohold to store ammo and also we do not have clips for any turrets yet, kill a HAV for example 180 for the vehicle and 50 for each person inside so 330WP but if the tank has been alive for most of the match of course it will have more WP if its doing other things but AV should get WP for damage which i havnt added yet but the reward for AV in PC at least is denying the enemy vehicles parts of the map to support ther team
OHK i have never said, if anything i tend to get 2-3shotted where as in a tank battle between basic vehicles it can be anywhere from 5-10+ depending how good we are and what happens |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
1237
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 12:17:00 -
[14] - Quote
R F Gyro wrote:Excellent roundup of issues there. Its nice to see someone spending the time to do this properly. Good job. I know you've heard it from me before (several times), but I'll say it again here because I think there's a real chance of someone at CCP reading this thread. Quote:Not to mention the whole argument about teamwork how it only takes 1 HAV driver to annoy a whole team yet the same HAV driver is asking for AV to use teamwork to kill his HAV That is a very, very important point. The balance argument between HAV drivers and infantry will go round and round forever, because the HAV drivers want the balance to be based on ISK and/or SP, whereas the infantry want it to be balanced on number of players. While these are not aligned there can't be balance. I personally believe that HAV/AV can be balanced, and it should be balanced around teams of three on each side, with equal levels of ISK and SP as the baseline. That means making the HAV require a crew of 3 to operate effectively (driver gets front gun, main gunner has a narrow field of view, top gunner becomes commander with a good view). It means HAVs get cheaper and AV gets more expensive, so that at each level (basic, advanced, proto) one loaded HAV costs about the same as 3 loaded AV suits, in both ISK and SP. Once this is done, all your other points become much easier to work with in terms of fine tuning the balance. Without this, I suspect you'll be simply rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic.
The problem is with the idea that we have a driver, main gunner and 2 sub gunners if needed (optional gunners tbh not needed to run the tank in anyway) is that who skills up what?
Does the driver still have to skill up everything? he needs the hull and the mods but frankly he doesnt need the guns so that would mean the gunner needs the turrets but if the driver doesnt have them then how can he put on the gun
Frankly its far too much work to go down this road because of how complicated it would be, the driver still it would seem needs everything just to be able to fit it in the fitting screen because you cannot deploy anything in the field if you have something on it where the pre req have not been met
The only simplistic way of doing this is by seperating the main gun from the driver but still having the driver needing the skills for everything just so he can fit it, so he can deploy it in the field and then whoever jumps into the main gun, problem is johnny randoms jumps in and i cant kick his ass out or lock the vehicle to begin with. Maybe as a secondary measure the guy who will be in controll of the main gun needs to have turret skills also and up to the turret that the driver has so if driver has proto turrets the gunner will need to be skilled into proto turrets.
I would also ask for a buff to the 4man HAV if its going to take more ppl to control it or it could be made a seperate HAV to the ones we have, call it Heavy HAV with improved defences and the pilot can utilise his pilot suit with the vehicle to make it defensively/offensively better |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
1241
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 15:48:00 -
[15] - Quote
Wakko03 wrote:
Wow such a jumble of nonsense right there I don't know if I can counter your obviously flawless logic.
So just to clarify you don't want 1 AV equiped player, able to stand up to a tank, you want to further the tankers I win button-ness by making them stronger vs a team work based attempt to destroy them.... fair and balanced (sarcasm). [The funny is that I read someone saying that 4-5 guys throwing AV at the tank in less than a minute is too much.... yeah I hate when a blob of heavies with proto level repair tool support is destroying me..... nerf them CCP, make it so not more than 1 logi can repair one person] (again sarcasm).
Again, all vehicles I know of, use some things of a limited finite nature called gas and ammo... unless you think the germans lost N.Africa due to bad strategy back during WW II...... but that is RL again intruding on a VG. Imagine if a foot soldier could just strap that nano-hive to his back - why do we have to drop them on the ground again, and be able to chase your tank down without being tethered to 1 spot on the map. Tanks are 150WP and the fact is that you tankers can get out and in them faster than I can chuck grenades at it, so getting some of the other possible 150wp for kills is a luxury moment from players that got caught un-awares. Also I would ask CCP to look into how IF I destroyed 4 tanks and 9 LAV's with help from friends that my WP total was only 850-ish.... maybe with less frequency but it still happens more commonly with the Dropships.
I was inside a building when the orbital got me, how many tankers have lived thru one? Let's explore that dynamic since I forgot to mention it as a OHK... hrmm, why IF I am not in a vehicle don't I get extra points too for getting my SL a strike in the first place.
You are right I didn't bother to read all of it, I stopped reading when you stopped making sense... so I don't know, did you swing that judgemental pendellum the other way... what about basic or militia infantry being forced to fight against adv level tanks and vehicles..... the ultimate I win button.
Tanks were all powerful at times, and it took CCP getting their butts handed to them to realize that what looks good on paper doesn't always translate into good in practice or application.
Says nonsense lol yea your 1st post was
Where did i say that? i didnt so your wrong again
Gas and ammo well my HAV for all i know run on a mini nuclear reactor which can last a thousand years and ammo is in a little corner of the HAV which nanomachines make on the spot and thus is infinite
You mean warbarge strike which is generally weak and has a small radius and the centre of the blast is the most powerful but small radius so the HAV can escape the centre and recieve less damage, also was the HAV running its resistances, what were its resistance, was the repper running, was the HAV still and not moving or was it moving? lots of variables involved. Also your are in a meat suit and a proper OB from EVE form an EVE player is alot stronger and hits hard and has a bigger radius
Advanced tanks? we dont have any, maybe logi is classed as advanced but barely tbh and where did i say that advanced fights basic? you mean when i mentioned basic vehicles vs basic AV instead of advanced/proto that ppl can use against basic vehicles, totally fair against vehicles but because its against vehicles no one cares anyways because AR514
Tanks should be powerful, CCP watched too many ambush matches |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
1255
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 18:02:00 -
[16] - Quote
Obodiah Garro wrote:Charlotte O'Dell wrote:Bones McGavins wrote:Webifiers. The ability to tackle tanks is the first step to balance.
Webifire missiles or forge varients that do little or no damage but stop the vehicle for 1-3 seconds, webifier nades which stop them for 5-10 seconds.
Then you can have your HP buff/AV nerf. We can't be adding that until we have ADV and PRO tanks with 8k and 11k HP, respectively. 8k and 11k? LOL Seriously just no sir, ehp is fine, too fine in the case of LLAV, what you will get is some extra slots and cpu/pgrid.
By my rough estimates that excatly around the figures i have for advanced/proto HAVs which are fitted
Also we should have an increase in the BASE HP but we defo should get an increase in CPU/PG also because we would have more slots
If basic HAVs do a 5/2 then advanced i would like to see go 6/3 and proto 7/4 slot wise - reverse it for armor
It would be exactly like it is for dropsuits, more CPU/PG and slots with a slight buff to base hp |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
1265
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 11:48:00 -
[17] - Quote
R F Gyro wrote:EnglishSnake wrote:
The problem is with the idea that we have a driver, main gunner and 2 sub gunners if needed (optional gunners tbh not needed to run the tank in anyway) is that who skills up what?
Does the driver still have to skill up everything? he needs the hull and the mods but frankly he doesnt need the guns so that would mean the gunner needs the turrets but if the driver doesnt have them then how can he put on the gun
Frankly its far too much work to go down this road because of how complicated it would be, the driver still it would seem needs everything just to be able to fit it in the fitting screen because you cannot deploy anything in the field if you have something on it where the pre req have not been met
The only simplistic way of doing this is by seperating the main gun from the driver but still having the driver needing the skills for everything just so he can fit it, so he can deploy it in the field and then whoever jumps into the main gun, problem is johnny randoms jumps in and i cant kick his ass out or lock the vehicle to begin with. Maybe as a secondary measure the guy who will be in controll of the main gun needs to have turret skills also and up to the turret that the driver has so if driver has proto turrets the gunner will need to be skilled into proto turrets.
I would also ask for a buff to the 4man HAV if its going to take more ppl to control it or it could be made a seperate HAV to the ones we have, call it Heavy HAV with improved defences and the pilot can utilise his pilot suit with the vehicle to make it defensively/offensively better
Yep, there aren't any easy solutions, but I still firmly believe that you need to balance around number of players first, and then ISK/SP second. The critical hard limit in Dust battles is number of players. If you allow one player in a HAV to be significantly more effective than one player in any other role then there is only one place things can end up: 16 HAVs per side (has anyone ever brought 16 HAVs to a fight before, btw?) Teams A and B are fighting, with 16 players each. Team A pulls out a HAV. To maintain parity, team B can switch one guy to a HAV, or switch three guys to AV. I don't think any of the "tank crew" objections you raise are blockers, by the way, and I'm happy to go into detail if asked.
Your comparing a 3man HAV to a 3man AV team
Problem here is that 3man HAV team is generally snort range except the driver if hes got a railgun on the HAV, the 2 small turrets are effectively useless and unless they have sniper rifles they cant do long range, on the other hand the 3 AV guys can be all FG or SL and hit from distance where only the driver can shoot back, if the turret is blaster its just better to run away but even then aslong as they have a line of sight you will still get hit
In PC battles right now no one runs in the HAV with the driver, when AV hits it from long range and is only short range if you get in the thick of it like inside a compound, FG/SL are used in places that the HAV wont be able to hit
Its mostly why HAV drivers tend to argue about ISK and SP, because a 3 man HAV crew cannot hit the AV guys when they are generally out of reach
Now if we could have small turrets which could hit long range then maybe we would fill our small turrets up a bit more because we as drivers wouldnt have to feel that we need to run railgun all the time incase long range AV comes into play, we could switch up our tactics a little bit |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
1267
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 13:44:00 -
[18] - Quote
Obodiah Garro wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:
Which means more shield/armor. Sorry you can't figure that out.
But of course you don't want ADV and PRO tanks. Those would be too difficult to solo.
Am fine with pilots wanting to use cpu/pgrid for more ehp if they can fit the mods, not fine at all buffing ehp arbitrally. HAV is, lets face it, a crutch after all no point in throwing random boosts on them.
A crutch
LOL ahahahahahaha
Seriously why are you in this thread when you have no clue about vehicles and obv dont use them either |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
1269
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 16:35:00 -
[19] - Quote
NAV HIV wrote:English the post was insightful as usual. Lot of good points. I started tanking again. Well the speed for armor isn't so bad, the buff to HP isn't that bad. The old enemies still remain, 180 Swarms, invisible swarms, Handheld FG > Tank Mounted Rails. The problem is the CPU and PG tbh. The skill tree has a lot of areas that only allow us to get to the next level without any bonuses. They could use those slots to introduce slight (not a lot) increase to CPU/PG bonus.
As you've mentioned, SOLO tanking and SOLO Av is not balancing. I see a lot of tankers crying, everyday all day. But i see some of them trying to kill infantry in front of a supply depot. Thats just stupid in my books. Don't see that many blaster tanks. Its almost close to none. All the tankers are on top of the hills with Railguns blowing up installations. What happened to the blaster on blaster tanking? Oh wait, can't see infantry properly, can't see swarms, getting shot by multiple wanna be railgun tankers.
Note: Spkr you are not a tanker. so don't speak on the elders' circle
The tree in general has alot of skills which are used for unlocking things but offer nothing for the SP spent
Take basic HAVs, the Gunlogi & Madrugar has nothing in bonuses, not even a racial bonus and same with all basic non specalist vehicles
Blaster tanking is not obsolete yet, its just that in your basic vehicle you have to get close to infantry who happen to throw AV nades like an NFL quaterback and deal with long range AV such as SL/FG which you have no chance of hitting and if its proto your next to dead |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
1269
|
Posted - 2013.06.13 16:18:00 -
[20] - Quote
NAV HIV wrote:EnglishSnake wrote:NAV HIV wrote:English the post was insightful as usual. Lot of good points. I started tanking again. Well the speed for armor isn't so bad, the buff to HP isn't that bad. The old enemies still remain, 180 Swarms, invisible swarms, Handheld FG > Tank Mounted Rails. The problem is the CPU and PG tbh. The skill tree has a lot of areas that only allow us to get to the next level without any bonuses. They could use those slots to introduce slight (not a lot) increase to CPU/PG bonus.
As you've mentioned, SOLO tanking and SOLO Av is not balancing. I see a lot of tankers crying, everyday all day. But i see some of them trying to kill infantry in front of a supply depot. Thats just stupid in my books. Don't see that many blaster tanks. Its almost close to none. All the tankers are on top of the hills with Railguns blowing up installations. What happened to the blaster on blaster tanking? Oh wait, can't see infantry properly, can't see swarms, getting shot by multiple wanna be railgun tankers.
Note: Spkr you are not a tanker. so don't speak on the elders' circle The tree in general has alot of skills which are used for unlocking things but offer nothing for the SP spent Take basic HAVs, the Gunlogi & Madrugar has nothing in bonuses, not even a racial bonus and same with all basic non specalist vehicles Blaster tanking is not obsolete yet, its just that in your basic vehicle you have to get close to infantry who happen to throw AV nades like an NFL quaterback and deal with long range AV such as SL/FG which you have no chance of hitting and if its proto your next to dead Yup thats what i mentioned in Charlottes post too. We have quite a few skills without any bonuses to them at all. 1. Vehicle command : 1%CPU and 1%PG per level? 2. Race LAVS (Caldari/Gallente) 1% PG for Caldari, 1%CPU for Gallente or 2% Reduction on PG usage for Caldari/ 2% reduction in CPU usage for Gallente 3. HAV skill tree> 2% bonus to PG for Gallente... 2% Bonus to CPU for Caldari per level it wouldn't be too OP and there would be some middle ground to it. AV's are just a bit too much. I use them so i know how unfair it could be. Specially Swarms to Armor. Make it Proto AR suit with 2 Complex Damage mods + Swarms
Vehicle command maybe skill wise
But for vehicles they should have race specific skills for ther tank so caldari shield and gal armor and they get like 5% to rep rate or something which benefits ther tank |
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EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
1269
|
Posted - 2013.06.13 16:26:00 -
[21] - Quote
R F Gyro wrote:EnglishSnake wrote:Your comparing a 3man HAV to a 3man AV team
Problem here is that 3man HAV team is generally short range except the driver if hes got a railgun on the HAV, the 2 small turrets are effectively useless and unless they have sniper rifles they cant do long range, on the other hand the 3 AV guys can be all FG or SL and hit from distance where only the driver can shoot back, if the turret is blaster its just better to run away but even then aslong as they have a line of sight you will still get hit
In PC battles right now no one runs in the HAV with the driver, when AV hits it from long range and is only short range if you get in the thick of it like inside a compound, FG/SL are used in places that the HAV wont be able to hit
Its mostly why HAV drivers tend to argue about ISK and SP, because a 3 man HAV crew cannot hit the AV guys when they are generally out of reach
Now if we could have small turrets which could hit long range then maybe we would fill our small turrets up a bit more because we as drivers wouldnt have to feel that we need to run railgun all the time incase long range AV comes into play, we could switch up our tactics a little bit I'm not saying a 3 man HAV crew is balanced with a 3 man AV team right now. I'm saying that a 3 man HAV crew should be balanced with a 3 man AV team. I'll support any initiative that achieves that. Once operating a tank requires 3 players I'm all in favour of buffing them, or nerfing AV, or whatever combination makes sense.
I feel maybe long range small turrets could help to a degree, it means it wouldnt always be upto the driver to rack on a railgun to hit AV which is firing away on a mountain, blaster would also be a bit more usable
As for the seperating the driver and gunner, i could deal with it if the 4man HAV got a buff in defenses for it and i could still drive in 3rd person view like i do now but i need complete control of the vehicle and until that happens no to it
|
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
1269
|
Posted - 2013.06.13 16:29:00 -
[22] - Quote
Mortedeamor wrote:EnglishSnake wrote:Generally we have the rock/paper and scissor scenario
Rock - Vehicles - Made to generally tank small arms fire and be fine from scissors
Paper - AV - Hurts Rock but is weak to scissors
Scissors - Infantry - Cuts a path through everything except rock
Not to mention the whole argument about teamwork how it only takes 1 HAV driver to annoy a whole team yet the same HAV driver is asking for AV to use teamwork to kill his HAV instead of a solo monkey which whacks his 1.5mil HAV in 3shots while he sunk 10mil into vehicle skills and the AV guy barely did a quarter of it. You can see why the HAV guy gets pissed off and i don't blame him but also the AV guy is like 'well i should be able to if he's stupid enough' which is valid for stupid pilots anyways and then add in the real world argument that a RPG can disable and destroy a mulit million dollar tank/helicopter.
Both sides get pissed off and think they are right and it becomes a **** throwing forum match and i have taken part in a fair few and nothing ever comes of it and it eventually gets lost in the forums and forgotten about.
The balance is one which will never truly happen but the only way to get it about right is if both sides can agree on a number of issues and for that to happen we need all the AV equipment which is going to be added and all the vehicles aswell but until that happens the next best step we can do is balance what we have and hopefully this thread can address a few issues and also solve a few too while hopefully adding some good ideas but expect bad ones aswell.
At this current time i have 14mil SP invested into vehicles, i have both sets of HAVs (excluding useless Enforcers), armor/shield DS, armor Logi DS and a Logi LAV but i have a tried out all vehicles and destroyed all vehicles with everything the game has to offer at one point or another through the varying builds and take part in all game modes including PC where basic vehicles go against proto AV.
I dont know it all but i know quite a bit and i know what pisses me off as vehicle pilot so if im slightly bias i can't help it but i try to be on the level with what i say and i try not to repeat myself but sometimes its needed because one thing can effect something else and so on until you come full circle.
Essentially dont turn this into a **** throwing thread, disagree yes but put why and in some detail and dont have posts like 'learn to fly' which are useless because in the end both sides dont get what they want and end up in a worse position from where they started from.
Its a long thread and there is no TLDR btw that rock paper scissors epic analogy dude. ok so im a triple spec and i run light av ina logi lav im also a logi just for backround ive tanked chromosome....build prior to chromosome in closed i was av ina logi lav. and before that again i delbed in tanks. i have only specked dropships in uprising prior to my reset to double check they're worthlessness i also specked tanks bef reset to check the caldari side...so former shield tanker here. LAV 1 the LOGI LAV is NOT overpowered. the mlt bpo bolach needs to be taken away upon graduation of the scrub academy..and maybe even made restockable at mlt isk prices. as far as lavs go the issues are as follows i feel ( without looking at base module differences and unbalances between shield and armor.) they need to have a damage counter for impacts with a body this should include dmg done to lav equal to a percentage of run over suits hp....percentage should be greater the heavier build the frame is (ex light 33% medium66%heavy99%) this should include resistances..and would effectively prevent lower end lavs from being able to murder taxi mass proto suits. as far as av goes...look at the limbus i eat limbus's for lunch PROTO AV the charybdis may seem op...but when the light forge gun or the plasma cannon (most useless av weapon ) gets reworked it will be great vs charybdis. and will balance the minor gaps between the 2 charybdis and limbus. i think we should have a skill tree to enhance the reppers on the logi lavs. i think the turrent slot should be a logi turrent only and they should give us logi turrents both shield transporters and armor reppers of various ranges and effectiveness. the acceleration needs to be nerfed....the reason with a skill tree enhancing the reppers built in. maybe multi beems, range buffs,...and a logi team using a logi lav both running complementary suits like heavy/logi and dual specced/forge /swarm.when pulling up to a team currently its just to fast ..in pc it's unpractical if they make logi lavs more logi then they need to slow them down. 2 the scout lav...the above changes to logi make it useless as a speed tank unless specifically built for just that...so scout lav...should have no turrent....should instead have onboard resupply ....should have faster accel ..needs buff to that and top speed.... 3 saga/methana.....these 2 should have an extra skill that increases the res drastically ...like 4% per lvl as well as a skill that enhances the turrents placed on you attack lav...and the back end should handle dmg equally as well as the front unlike all other lavs...the turrenter should have some form of bullet guard on his turrent... now these are just some of my idea for lavs and balance i will have more input on the tanks side later today me and a few mates are gunna test proto av dmg vs armor and shield tanks both.
Give an example with that running ppl over and percentages
LAVs in general are fast its part of ther defence since swarms take the ****, if the LAV is being slower it needs more defences if its a logi LAV so it can support infantry vehicles
Scout LAV i dont use but id go for that increase in speed
Logi LAV basically stops you from using other LAVs and if the saga/methana got a buff like that it maybe would be used more
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EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
1273
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 09:03:00 -
[23] - Quote
Back to the 1st page |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
1278
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 12:30:00 -
[24] - Quote
Shijima Kuraimaru wrote:Eurydice Itzhak wrote:Shijima Kuraimaru wrote:
Damage mods... Yeah...
Forge Gun Skills
Forge Gun Operation: Max 25% reduction to charge time.
Forge Gun Proficiency: Max 15% damage bonus.
Forge Gun Modules
Basic Heavy Damage Modifier: 3% damage bonus. (high slot)
Enhanced Heavy Damage Modifier: 5% damage bonus. (high slot)
Complex Heavy Damage Modifier: 10% damage bonus. (high slot)
Amarr Heavy Dropsuits
Basic
Frame A-1: 1 high, 2 low. 810 base EHP
Frame A/1-Series: 2 high, 2 low. 810 base EHP
Frame ak.0: 2 high, 3 low. 810 base EHP
Sentinel
Sentinel A-1: 1 high, 2 low. 810 base EHP
Sentinel A/1-Series: 1 high, 3 low. 810 base EHP
Sentinel ak.0: 1 high, 4 low. 810 base EHP
Turret Skills
Turret Operation: Max 10% damage bonus.
Large Hybrid Turret Operation: Max 5% damage bonus.
Hybrid Turret Modules
Large Hybrid Modules
High Throughput Field Stabilizer I: 7% damage bonus and 2% increase to rate of fire. (low slot)
HT Linear Flux Stabilizer: 8% damage bonus and 3% increase to rate of fire. (low slot)
High Throughput Field Stabilizer II: 10% damage bonus and 5% increase to rate of fire. (low slot)
Systemic Hybrid Modules (Affects both small and large hybrid turrets)
Systemic Field Stabilizer I: 3% damage bonus and 2% increase to rate of fire. (low slot)
Systemic Vortex Stabilizer: 4% damage bonus and 3% increase to rate of fire. (low slot)
Systemic Field Stabilizer II: 6% damage bonus and 5% increase to rate of fire. (low slot)
Fire Control System: 10% reduction to spool up time. (low slot)
Asynchronous Fire Control: 14% reduction to spool up time. (low slot)
Fire Control System II: 19% reduction to spool up time. (low slot)
Conscript Heat Sink: 10% reduction to heat build up. (low slot)
Modified Extruded Heat Sink: 14% reduction to heat build up. (low slot)
Vented Heat Sink: 19% reduction to heat build up. (low slot)
Active Heat Sink I: 20% reduction to heat build up. (high slot)
Azeotripic Coolant Pump: 36% reduction to heat build up. (high slot)
Active Heat Sink II: 52% reduction to heat build up. (high slot)
HAVs
Gunlogi: 5 high, 2 low. 4500 base EHP
Madrugar: 2 high, 5 low. 4750 base EHP
Falchion: 5 high, 2 low. 4432 base EHP
Vayu: 3 high, 5 low. 4672 base EHP
Let's do this as a hypothetical where both players are going for maximum damage output over 4 shots so no reload or overheat and using a two damage mod maximum.
Max skilled Forge Gunner.
Amarr Heavy Frame ak.0: 2 high, 3 low. 810 base EHP
Kaalakiota: 1584.0 (2138.4) damage, 3.5 (2.625) sec charge time.
Ishukone Assault Forge Gun: 1663.2 (2245.32) damage, 2.5 (1.875) sec charge time.
Wiyrkomi Breach Forge Gun: 2773.0 (3743.55) damage, 6 (4.5) second charge (immobilized)
Complex Damage Mod x2: 20% damage bonus. (stacking penalty not included)
Total Bonus:
Kaalakiota: 8553.6 damage, 10.5 seconds. = 814.629 damage per second.
Ishukone Assault Forge Gun: 8981.28 damage, 7.5 seconds. = 1197.504 damage per second.
Wiyrkomi Breach Forge Gun: 14974.2 damage, 18 seconds (immobilized) = 831.9 damage per second.
Max Skilled Tanker.
Vayu: 3 high, 5 low. 4672 base EHP
80GJ Regulated/Particle Cannon: 1438.9 (1942.515), .3 second spool, 1.8 (1.62) second refire.
80GJ Compressed Particle Cannon: 1798.7(2428.245), .3 second spool, 2.2 (1.98) second refire.
High Throughput Field Stabilizer II x2 20% damage bonus, 10% refire rate reduction. (stacking penalty not included)
Total Bonus: 35% damage bonus, 10% refire rate reduction.
80GJ Regulated/Particle Cannon: 7770.06, 5.16 seconds. = 1505.826 damage per second
80GJ Compressed Particle Cannon: 9712.98, 6.24seconds. = 1556.567 damage per second
So, as you can see proven via math, even with the fitting of only two damage mods each, the lowest proto rail turret still out DPSs the most powerful proto FG. If you still want to argue overheat vs reload, we can always drag out the passive and active heat sinks for your tank turrets.
Oh. And you always seem to forget that Rails have double the range of Forges and OHK even the most tanked out heavy.
No shield tank can fit dmg mods, heat sinks, or anything else. I believe armor tanks can fit an active heat sink? I'm unsure. A shield tank with your fittings would get one shotted by an AV grenade let alone a forge gun. My armor tanking days died in Chromosome so I can't say for sure how they would fare. Fine. Change it to a Falchion. The results would still be the same with two damage mods. Otherwise it looks like you're saying that shield tanks don't have low slots.
Nice try with stats
Remember tho every single HAV needs at least 1 PG mod on it
Gunlogis need it or its an extremely weak tank on it, same with madrugars to an extent
All HAV needs a PG mod and if you fit it for damage its a glass tank where as the heavy can be fit for damage and still have a decent tank against infantry where as the HAV has to give up all tank nearly and with the shield tank it cant put on a heat sink unless it loses resistances
The heavy FG doesnt have to give up anything, it can have tank and damage on the same suit, you cannot do that with a HAV we have to give up something to do one or the other, we can do a halfway fit but its neither one or the other and is still weak |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
1278
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 13:37:00 -
[25] - Quote
Panther Alpha wrote:You can't use "rock, paper and scissors" in a FPS game .. or a least not in a literal way. You can make weapons more effecting against specific scenarios, but not "exclusive" to that scenarios. Having LAV's that instant kills infantry, its using Rock against Scissors in a "Literal" way... the problem is that LAV's should never be ROCK against infantry..it should be like this:
- Vehicle V's Vehicle
- Infantry V's Infantry
Two different scenarios.
Vehicle V's Infantry, should be "circumstantial " and not "literal".. in other words ;
The mounted gun in a LAV kills Infantry > Anti-vehicle infantry weapons kills LAV.
But not ;
LAV road kills infantry > Infantry kills LAV with grenades.
Yes you can and i just did
Rock, paper & scissors is a fine example for the true specializations
Sure you can have infantry with AV nades, so scissors with a paper handle
Or just rock against rock, or in your case with a LAV rock vs pebble
Either way its perfectly fine and you are nit picking with example of infantry or whatever not being specialised and trying to be jack of 2 trades but master of **** all |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
1289
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 09:59:00 -
[26] - Quote
Shijima Kuraimaru wrote:EnglishSnake wrote:Nice try with stats Remember tho every single HAV needs at least 1 PG mod on it Gunlogis need it or its an extremely weak tank on it, same with madrugars to an extent All HAV needs a PG mod and if you fit it for damage its a glass tank where as the heavy can be fit for damage and still have a decent tank against infantry where as the HAV has to give up all tank nearly and with the shield tank it cant put on a heat sink unless it loses resistances The heavy FG doesnt have to give up anything, it can have tank and damage on the same suit, you cannot do that with a HAV we have to give up something to do one or the other, we can do a halfway fit but its neither one or the other and is still weak How you fit a tank is your choice, just because you don't fit two damage mods, doesn't mean you can't. Besides, the top proto sentinel suits only have one high so their bonuse would be halved still giving the rail tank the DPS advantage. You obviously don't have experience as a heavy FG wielder in an infantry encounter. The majority of the time, the FG wielder dies in a close encounter with infantry. If I ever get to where I can OHK proto fit rail tank, without having to worry about getting OHKed by said tank, then I'll concede that you have a valid point. Till then, while I'm highly vulnerable to every battlefield threat, and my chosen target takes three or more shots to take down, you've got nothing to stand on.
Heavy FG is easy, either run around in a LAV and hop out at a place where you have a clear LOS and the suprise and then pop back in move again or get up high
OHK a tank is unlickly unless its already too a fair amount of damage since FG/SL can easy do 3k damage and a Proto rail should always OHK infantry the problem is hitting you, as for the proto FG they take 3 shots or less to kill any tank atm
Also as a heavy you have a sidearm slot for a reason to defend yourself, its not hard playing as a heavy just moving around is
Plus as a heavy you can add damage mods and tank, a HAV cannot do that ever due to restrictions and compromises and the whole 'How you fit a tank is your choice, just because you don't fit two damage mods, doesn't mean you can't' is pure BS and just shows you know nothing about vehicles, yes we can fit 2 damage mods on but we have to give up tank/resistances so we are weaker to everything else but a heavy suit doesnt have to do **** because damage mods are mid slots and the tank is low where it doesnt effect anything |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
1293
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 23:54:00 -
[27] - Quote
Shijima Kuraimaru wrote:EnglishSnake wrote:Heavy FG is easy, either run around in a LAV and hop out at a place where you have a clear LOS and the suprise and then pop back in move again or get up high
OHK a tank is unlickly unless its already too a fair amount of damage since FG/SL can easy do 3k damage and a Proto rail should always OHK infantry the problem is hitting you, as for the proto FG they take 3 shots or less to kill any tank atm
Also as a heavy you have a sidearm slot for a reason to defend yourself, its not hard playing as a heavy just moving around is
Plus as a heavy you can add damage mods and tank, a HAV cannot do that ever due to restrictions and compromises and the whole 'How you fit a tank is your choice, just because you don't fit two damage mods, doesn't mean you can't' is pure BS and just shows you know nothing about vehicles, yes we can fit 2 damage mods on but we have to give up tank/resistances so we are weaker to everything else but a heavy suit doesnt have to do **** because damage mods are mid slots and the tank is low where it doesnt effect anything So what you're saying is that because a heavy isn't useless against an HAV, where even the basic large rail turret can OHK, it's over powered. I get it. And that you believe that a sidearm is effective defense against all forms of infantry is evident. And forbid that the heavy do something so OP as to utilize intelligent tactics. And the fact that I watch rail tanks effectively snipe infantry from behind their red line all day with high accuracy then read your complaint shows me that you are a poor tanker, poor gunner, or both. You have given me many smiles and laughs at your apparent belief that the heavy with a FG is a more effective battlefield asset than a well piloted rail tank.
I never said it was OP you idiot but it is clearly not as bad as you are making out
The FG does more base damage than a proto vehicle mounted railgun which has a massive tank looking shape to shoot at while the HAV pilot can only guess at where the little pixelatedAV guy is which needs a direct hit to kill him since splash got nerfed
Sidearm slot ******* use it at least
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA where did i say that the FG is a more effective battlefield weapon than a tank?
I swear you just see what you want and pull handfulls of **** out of your arse and smear it on the screen |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
1295
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 11:14:00 -
[28] - Quote
Shijima Kuraimaru wrote:EnglishSnake wrote:Shijima Kuraimaru wrote:EnglishSnake wrote:Heavy FG is easy, either run around in a LAV and hop out at a place where you have a clear LOS and the suprise and then pop back in move again or get up high
OHK a tank is unlickly unless its already too a fair amount of damage since FG/SL can easy do 3k damage and a Proto rail should always OHK infantry the problem is hitting you, as for the proto FG they take 3 shots or less to kill any tank atm
Also as a heavy you have a sidearm slot for a reason to defend yourself, its not hard playing as a heavy just moving around is
Plus as a heavy you can add damage mods and tank, a HAV cannot do that ever due to restrictions and compromises and the whole 'How you fit a tank is your choice, just because you don't fit two damage mods, doesn't mean you can't' is pure BS and just shows you know nothing about vehicles, yes we can fit 2 damage mods on but we have to give up tank/resistances so we are weaker to everything else but a heavy suit doesnt have to do **** because damage mods are mid slots and the tank is low where it doesnt effect anything So what you're saying is that because a heavy isn't useless against an HAV, where even the basic large rail turret can OHK, it's over powered. I get it. And that you believe that a sidearm is effective defense against all forms of infantry is evident. And forbid that the heavy do something so OP as to utilize intelligent tactics. And the fact that I watch rail tanks effectively snipe infantry from behind their red line all day with high accuracy then read your complaint shows me that you are a poor tanker, poor gunner, or both. You have given me many smiles and laughs at your apparent belief that the heavy with a FG is a more effective battlefield asset than a well piloted rail tank. I never said it was OP you idiot but it is clearly not as bad as you are making out The FG does more base damage than a proto vehicle mounted railgun which has a massive tank looking shape to shoot at while the HAV pilot can only guess at where the little pixelatedAV guy is which needs a direct hit to kill him since splash got nerfed Sidearm slot ******* use it at least AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA where did i say that the FG is a more effective battlefield weapon than a tank? I swear you just see what you want and pull handfulls of **** out of your arse and smear it on the screen Gibberish The discussion was apparently based on the false assumption that a forge gun out damages a large rail turret, not the tactics and fittings of the mercs using them. On a per shot basis, you're right. But on a damage output over time, you're completely wrong.
DPS over time your maths are wrong
The compressed particle rail cannot fire 4 shots, it can only fire 3 then it overheats so the time it takes to fire 4 shots is even longer unless you use a heat sink if you can fit it on, by the time its stopped overheating the FG has reloaded and is firing again
But lets be honest here, damage per second means nothing at all because you cant take comfort knowing that your tank can spit out more yet you can be dead in 3 shots anyways so that means jack ****
DPS only matters between tanks because we are so weak to each other and we can end up firing 10shots at each other but if proto AV gets involved then someone is ******
Its about how hard it hits, if it takes 3k of your tanks health in a single shot currently all basic vehicles are ****** against proto AV because dun dun dun we dont have advanced/proto vehicles
Your entire stat argument was flawed, you only picked what you wanted and totally ignored the vehicle side of things because you have never skilled up into anything vehicle wise and all you prob use is the milita LAV
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EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
1296
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 23:20:00 -
[29] - Quote
Shijima Kuraimaru wrote:
The breach variants are the only Forges capable of getting near, and breaking, 3k. On top of that, the breach variants have the longest charge times and completely immobilize the wielder. If you're dieing to a solo breach then the wielder got into a good position and caught you by surprise. As for my "flawed" argument, I compared on max skills and available mods for both, not what has been accepted as the "Must be fitted this way" ideology. It's not my problem if you can't accept the results of a balanced comparison. And you apparently still feel that a rail tank with twice the range, more mobility (don't confuse it with agility), Higher accuracy, and able to OHK anyone in their sights makes it underpowered.
More gibberish
You can jump with the breach
Max skills and mods but really you know nothing about vehicles or AV since your comparing a FG with tank and damage with a HAV with no tank but damage and then saying well its your choice but you have already picked the choices for your 'balanced comparision' which is lol worthy
Balanced lol its anything but
A FG in a LAV has more mobility, as for tank mobility ye if its going straight and on a road and not going over bumpy terrian because ya know enviromental damage lol
Higher accuracy lol, the railgun has to hit dead on and in its a long shot aim slightly above the target because of shell drop and the target has to be stood still because splash is meh and next to nonexistant, it aint the railgun with the higher accuracy its the pilot who using the damn thing
FG gets to aim at a massive target, no shell drop, no overheat, can do more base damage than a vehicle prototype railgun, sometimes i wish i could just put on a FG for my turret |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
1299
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 10:54:00 -
[30] - Quote
Shijima Kuraimaru wrote:EnglishSnake wrote:Shijima Kuraimaru wrote:
The breach variants are the only Forges capable of getting near, and breaking, 3k. On top of that, the breach variants have the longest charge times and completely immobilize the wielder. If you're dieing to a solo breach then the wielder got into a good position and caught you by surprise. As for my "flawed" argument, I compared on max skills and available mods for both, not what has been accepted as the "Must be fitted this way" ideology. It's not my problem if you can't accept the results of a balanced comparison. And you apparently still feel that a rail tank with twice the range, more mobility (don't confuse it with agility), Higher accuracy, and able to OHK anyone in their sights makes it underpowered.
More gibberish You can jump with the breach Max skills and mods but really you know nothing about vehicles or AV since your comparing a FG with tank and damage with a HAV with no tank but damage and then saying well its your choice but you have already picked the choices for your 'balanced comparision' which is lol worthy Balanced lol its anything but A FG in a LAV has more mobility, as for tank mobility ye if its going straight and on a road and not going over bumpy terrian because ya know enviromental damage lol Higher accuracy lol, the railgun has to hit dead on and in its a long shot aim slightly above the target because of shell drop and the target has to be stood still because splash is meh and next to nonexistant, it aint the railgun with the higher accuracy its the pilot who using the damn thing FG gets to aim at a massive target, no shell drop, no overheat, can do more base damage than a vehicle prototype railgun, sometimes i wish i could just put on a FG for my turret Yes, yes. I know. The fearsome bunny hopping breach forge. Seriously, you need to stop making me laugh so hard. It's hard to type at times. A heavy in an LAV I've seen. I do it to get from place to place because I can't run like a scout. At least I don't play murder taxi. Shell drop is a constant. I see tankers landing shells on people all the time. Same with travel time. Forge does have scatter to their shots. I've experienced it. Times when the HAV, LAV, even an installation is filling a significant portion of my aim box and still, the shot goes high and to the side or hits the ground between the target and myself. If you had a turret equivalent to the forge, you'd QQ about the way it shakes while it's charging/charged, then you'd QQ about it not being very accurate when you try to shoot infantry. You might also QQ about the time between shots and the max effective range of 300 meters. What this finally comes down to is that neither one of us will change our minds so this conversation, that you've been treating like a personal affront to your ego, is at a stalemate.
You said breach FG makes you immobile, immobile means you cannot move at all but you can jump when using the breach FG which is movement - That is a fact
Shell drop can be inconsistant, i can aim at someone and they not move and sometimes it misses, thats if the railgun doesnt misfire or even move slightly to the right after each shot
FG barely shakes, its accurate whenever ive used it
A stalemate lol ive took apart all of statements including the one with stats |
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EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
1309
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 23:08:00 -
[31] - Quote
R F Gyro wrote:Charlotte O'Dell wrote:Mortedeamor wrote:
actually it makes perfect sense that a master av can solo any tank atm...think about it....if you run into a sntd suit in dust..your ina proto suit..they're gun game may even be a bit better...but its just more likely your gunna scrub em up....its called proto stomping beating the crap out of people with lesser gear. tanks have no gear above stnd...ive seen the so called adv havs..and me asa proto av ive quesynced witha friend and hit a adv hav with adv av.....the need a slight buff... once tankers are given they're proto's it will most likely take a combo of heavy av and light av to control the field....caldari proto hav would not be soloable by 1 proto swarm..2-3 man av teams....balance
This^ It's hard to say tanks are UP when we're missing more than half of them. But when we get proto tanks this whole debate will just spring up again. How is it balanced when it takes 3 players (with AV) to kill one player (in a HAV)? How does this not lead to everyone rolling around in tanks?
How many vehicle pilots are ther now who have 90% of ther SP into vehicles?
Its not many at all
I dont include ambush tankers either because they get stomped everytime in skirmish hence why they in ambush
Vehicles are an SP/ISK sink when compared with AV
AV is cheap and easy its why more players have adv/proto AV and they can skill it up along with ther suit and main weapon
Vehicles have been nerfed what 3-4 builds in a row while AV got buffs and now that the SP required has gone up by a large amount andyou dont see any new tankers to begin with and if anyone does see them in milita tanks or weak fits they are blown up by AV or a more experienced tanker
You see packs of AV players more than packs of tanks |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
1310
|
Posted - 2013.06.19 11:11:00 -
[32] - Quote
DeathwindRising wrote:EnglishSnake wrote:
Not to mention the whole argument about teamwork how it only takes 1 HAV driver to annoy a whole team yet the same HAV driver is asking for AV to use teamwork to kill his HAV instead of a solo monkey which whacks his 1.5mil HAV in 3shots while he sunk 10mil into vehicle skills and the AV guy barely did a quarter of it. You can see why the HAV guy gets pissed off and i don't blame him but also the AV guy is like 'well i should be able to if he's stupid enough' which is valid for stupid pilots anyways and then add in the real world argument that a RPG can disable and destroy a mulit million dollar tank/helicopter.
HAV's dont have any countermeasures to av weapons like tanks do in real life. where are our smoke grenades, flares, and chaff? We need smoke to conceal ourselves from forge guns, chaff or flares to defend against swarm launchers. I'd even go so far as to make smoke grenades keep swarm launchers from locking onto vehicles concealed by smoke.
Dropships defo need them so they can stay in the sky for longer than 30secs
FG i cant think of a countermeasure
Also tho would the countermeasure be included in the vehicle like the MCRU/infantry repper is for logi vehicles or would it be a module which takes up a slot
Vehicles also need rigs because that would free up slot for other modules so if countermeasure are modules then we can use rigs and free up the slots |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
1317
|
Posted - 2013.06.19 16:48:00 -
[33] - Quote
Mortedeamor wrote:R F Gyro wrote:Charlotte O'Dell wrote:Mortedeamor wrote:
actually it makes perfect sense that a master av can solo any tank atm...think about it....if you run into a sntd suit in dust..your ina proto suit..they're gun game may even be a bit better...but its just more likely your gunna scrub em up....its called proto stomping beating the crap out of people with lesser gear. tanks have no gear above stnd...ive seen the so called adv havs..and me asa proto av ive quesynced witha friend and hit a adv hav with adv av.....the need a slight buff... once tankers are given they're proto's it will most likely take a combo of heavy av and light av to control the field....caldari proto hav would not be soloable by 1 proto swarm..2-3 man av teams....balance
This^ It's hard to say tanks are UP when we're missing more than half of them. But when we get proto tanks this whole debate will just spring up again. How is it balanced when it takes 3 players (with AV) to kill one player (in a HAV)? How does this not lead to everyone rolling around in tanks? your proto hav is gunna cost you somewhere between 2-8 million isk...my proto av rig costs me 500 k .....of course there will always be the people whining about tanks being op...and when proto tanks come out there will be thousands of scrubs crying because they cant solo one with adv gear...i on the other hand look forward to the day where i might actually need help to kill a tank
My basic fit with a proto turret is 1.7mil
If i used an enforcer its 2.9mil maybe 3mil due to extra slot
Advanced i can see will push it to 5mil probs and proto getting close to 10mil ISK fully fitted while that proto AV fit is 500k
Not too mention that will be millions of SP needed to use proto vehicles
I will look forward to the day when dumb ass randoms cant dent it with milita AV and it takes at least a couple of proto guys to hurt it |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
1317
|
Posted - 2013.06.19 20:35:00 -
[34] - Quote
EnglishSnake wrote:R F Gyro wrote:
How is it balanced when it takes 3 players (with AV) to kill one player (in a HAV)? How does this not lead to everyone rolling around in tanks?
How many vehicle pilots are ther now who have 90% of ther SP into vehicles? Its not many at all I dont include ambush tankers either because they get stomped everytime in skirmish hence why they in ambush Vehicles are an SP/ISK sink when compared with AV AV is cheap and easy its why more players have adv/proto AV and they can skill it up along with ther suit and main weapon Vehicles have been nerfed what 3-4 builds in a row while AV got buffs and now that the SP required has gone up by a large amount andyou dont see any new tankers to begin with and if anyone does see them in milita tanks or weak fits they are blown up by AV or a more experienced tanker You see packs of AV players more than packs of tanks
R F Gyro wrote:EnglishSnake wrote:
My basic fit with a proto turret is 1.7mil
If i used an enforcer its 2.9mil maybe 3mil due to extra slot
Advanced i can see will push it to 5mil probs and proto getting close to 10mil ISK fully fitted while that proto AV fit is 500k
Not too mention that will be millions of SP needed to use proto vehicles
I will look forward to the day when dumb ass randoms cant dent it with milita AV and it takes at least a couple of proto guys to hurt it
Don't balance on ISK alone. That approach breaks badly once everyone gets rich. You are still one guy in your tank. Requiring two guys to take you out is not balanced. Make a tank require 3 players to operate it; make it require 3 players to kill it. Make tanks cheaper and AV gear more expensive: 1.5m for a top-end fitted HAV, and 500K for a top-end fitted AV suit. Now it requires 3 players in proto AV gear to have a reasonable chance of killing your proto tank, but no-one QQs because it is balanced.
Look above
You do not see packs of tanks roaming about, you see packs of AV runing around because it easy
Vehicle are a massive ISK and SP sink, if im not in a vehicle im generally a walking meatbag in which a gust of wind kills me
Having 3 ppl in a HAV means **** all because generally the 2 turrets are useless, the 3man AV group is still fighting the 1 person in that HAV because the 2 small turrets are useless even if they even sat in the damn thing, the HAV doesnt get stronger because its full up so 3v3 is really 3vs 1 anyways so it doesnt fly
Its all down to the driver, the driver has to put everything into a vehicle to make it good, he gives up everything and cannot be on foot without getting wasted, without the driver the HAV is nothing, its easier to go ground pounding and skill up AV as a side hobby
Compare that to an AV guy who can skill up and AV weapon along next to his main weapon while sticking to one suit
You say 3v1 isnt fair, im in a damn tank while they are walking meatbags when compared to it with weapons that are already stronger than my turret and can lock on fire and forget go around corners and pull 270s
If you want 3v3 then i want pilot suits to be worn by all my gunners and have mods which increases the tank/resistances/damage but until then its 3v1 all the way because the gunners do next to **** anyways |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
1318
|
Posted - 2013.06.20 12:13:00 -
[35] - Quote
R F Gyro wrote:EnglishSnake wrote:Look above
You do not see packs of tanks roaming about, you see packs of AV runing around because it easy
Vehicle are a massive ISK and SP sink, if im not in a vehicle im generally a walking meatbag in which a gust of wind kills me
Having 3 ppl in a HAV means **** all because generally the 2 turrets are useless, the 3man AV group is still fighting the 1 person in that HAV because the 2 small turrets are useless even if they even sat in the damn thing, the HAV doesnt get stronger because its full up so 3v3 is really 3vs 1 anyways so it doesnt fly
Its all down to the driver, the driver has to put everything into a vehicle to make it good, he gives up everything and cannot be on foot without getting wasted, without the driver the HAV is nothing, its easier to go ground pounding and skill up AV as a side hobby
Compare that to an AV guy who can skill up and AV weapon along next to his main weapon while sticking to one suit
You say 3v1 isnt fair, im in a damn tank while they are walking meatbags when compared to it with weapons that are already stronger than my turret and can lock on fire and forget go around corners and pull 270s
If you want 3v3 then i want pilot suits to be worn by all my gunners and have mods which increases the tank/resistances/damage but until then its 3v1 all the way because the gunners do next to **** anyways I'm not talking about packs of tanks. I'm talking about one tank with 3 people in it. I understand that HAVs cost of lot of ISK and SP. I'd like to balance that more, so HAVs cost less, and AV costs more. I understand that - right now - 2 of the players in a HAV are almost useless. I'd like to change that. I'd like small turrets on a HAV to be more effective. I want to separate the driver & main gun. I want the HAV to get significant defensive bonuses if the top turret is occupied. I understand that it is all down to the driver at the moment. I'd like to change that, so the driver is just one part of a team that is operating the HAV. I understand that one guy can be effective in AV at the moment. I'd like to change that so that it takes 3 people working together to take down a tank. "I'm a tank" is not a valid game balance argument in my view. I'm very happy with the idea of specialist suits for vehicle crew. My core argument is very, very simple: if you ignore number of players when trying to balance HAVs vs AV, you will fail.
With your own words
How is it balanced when it takes 3 players (with AV) to kill one player (in a HAV)? How does this not lead to everyone rolling around in tanks?
You assume that everyone would run to tanks if it takes 3 ppl to take it down, considering it takes millions of SP to get a fully fitted HAV you can skill up AV in half the time instead and kill them
If you make a 4man HAV then should it take 4 AV to take it down? maybe even more AV because it gets defensive bonuses
You cant balance it with players when a 3man HAV is the same when its just the driver
The balance is currently 2-3 std to take down a std tank and it will continue to be this way until we get adv/proto vehicles and also some basic changes done
We need everything in before we can change what we have
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EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
1323
|
Posted - 2013.06.22 10:16:00 -
[36] - Quote
EDIT: Top small turret on the big gun should be independent from the big gun, so if the big turret moves left and the small turret is looking right the small turret doesnt move with the big gun like it currently does |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
1326
|
Posted - 2013.06.22 15:21:00 -
[37] - Quote
Purona wrote:I don't think CCP will ever give us prototype tanks. Since at most it will give us an low slot on shield tanks or an extra high slot on armor tanks and an increase in powergrid CPU armor and shields.
What we need are better modules. The modules are what makes the tank . You can put a madrugar on the field with no modules and die in moments.Put a soma on the field with modules and you can easily out live the madrugar
right now modules stop at level 3
.25 for an active hardener imagine if it was .35 or even .40 instead of 414 every second for 15 second what if it was 522 or even near 600
Ive mentioned modules
Compared to dropsuit mods they go upto lvl 5 and are basic/adv/proto where as vehicles are lvl 1-3 and are just basic and then a bit better
As for the tanks i suspect it maybe like the sagari and surya, 1 extra slot in a secondary area which tends to be useless
I would like with adv to have at least 1 extra slot for BOTH high and low slots and then the same again for proto or even maybe 2 extra because you can have a basic dropsuit being 2h/2L and get a proto suit with 5h/4L
If its anything like the enforcers then we are screwed because they claim to be advanced by they have what the slot layout of basic+ but the CPU/PG of a milita tank |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
1328
|
Posted - 2013.06.22 22:17:00 -
[38] - Quote
Shijima Kuraimaru wrote:EnglishSnake wrote:Purona wrote:I don't think CCP will ever give us prototype tanks. Since at most it will give us an low slot on shield tanks or an extra high slot on armor tanks and an increase in powergrid CPU armor and shields.
What we need are better modules. The modules are what makes the tank . You can put a madrugar on the field with no modules and die in moments.Put a soma on the field with modules and you can easily out live the madrugar
right now modules stop at level 3
.25 for an active hardener imagine if it was .35 or even .40 instead of 414 every second for 15 second what if it was 522 or even near 600
Ive mentioned modules Compared to dropsuit mods they go upto lvl 5 and are basic/adv/proto where as vehicles are lvl 1-3 and are just basic and then a bit better As for the tanks i suspect it maybe like the sagari and surya, 1 extra slot in a secondary area which tends to be useless I would like with adv to have at least 1 extra slot for BOTH high and low slots and then the same again for proto or even maybe 2 extra because you can have a basic dropsuit being 2h/2L and get a proto suit with 5h/4L If its anything like the enforcers then we are screwed because they claim to be advanced by they have what the slot layout of basic+ but the CPU/PG of a milita tank You want 9 slot proto hulls? How about 5 slot proto hulls? If PG/CPU gets fixed, a 9 slot proto hull tank, I'm pretty sure, would be nearly, if not completely, immune to infantry based AV.
5 slot proto hulls are milita hulls
Basic are 7
Enforcer/sagaris/surya are 8slot hulls but the slots are in the wrong places and also the PG/CPU increases are meh
9slot hull should be advanced at least, 1 slot extra per high and low so it would be 3h/6l and then proto 4h/7l with PG/CPU increases for it to be useful
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EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
1331
|
Posted - 2013.06.23 10:33:00 -
[39] - Quote
Shijima Kuraimaru wrote:EnglishSnake wrote:Shijima Kuraimaru wrote:EnglishSnake wrote:[quote=Purona]Basic are 7
Enforcer/sagaris/surya are 8slot hulls but the slots are in the wrong places and also the PG/CPU increases are meh
9slot hull should be advanced at least, 1 slot extra per high and low so it would be 3h/6l and then proto 4h/7l with PG/CPU increases for it to be useful
I stand corrected. However, while I agree HAVs should be useful, and they are, and I agree that they need a PG/CPU fix, I think HAVs should have to balance between tank and gank. To be able to fit the best of both would probably make them too strong and subject to nerf hammering. I wish I had 8 slots. LOL Keep in mind we only have HANDHELD av and weak proximity mines in here atm (not including other tanks and basic installations). Custom large installations and more av vehicles should be coming. Also, this "rock paper scissors" thing is also flawed, because AV users are also infantry at the same time, not dedicated AV. Handheld AV should not directly counter heavy tanks and ruin its day. Dedicated AV emplacements, AV mines, etc should directly counter heavy tanks and ruin its day. EDIT: Also, proximity mines need a large buff Yeah because you know my SMG is just so terrifyingly effective for close encounters right? It's not like I can use my SMG and FG akimbo. I only agree with you as far as AV Grenades, well maybe proximity mines too, but I have no experience using them. But SWARMS should make a HAV jock cautious, and the Forge should make a HAV jock sweat.
Dont worry use the new command suit of whatever
Heavy suit , duvolle in 1 slot swarms in the other
I see the dropsuits have proto with big slot increases but yet again infantry says vehicles cant have the same because they would be too strong' or 'be able to fit tank and gank' like some dropsuits can already do
Always the same, infantry get everything vehicle users get nothing
We need and deserve proper advanced/proto vehicles and if it turns on out my basic slot estimation on them is right then great, if its not then i expect for some damn good passive skills on the tanks to be useful because we need tanks that can stand up to these proto AV weapons which dish out more damage than out turrets can ever do |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
1332
|
Posted - 2013.06.23 12:22:00 -
[40] - Quote
Shijima Kuraimaru wrote:Shijima Kuraimaru wrote:EnglishSnake wrote:
Yeah because you know my SMG is just so terrifyingly effective for close encounters right? It's not like I can use my SMG and FG akimbo.
I only agree with you as far as AV Grenades, well maybe proximity mines too, but I have no experience using them. But SWARMS should make a HAV jock cautious, and the Forge should make a HAV jock sweat.
Dont worry use the new command suit of whatever Heavy suit , duvolle in 1 slot swarms in the other I see the dropsuits have proto with big slot increases but yet again infantry says vehicles cant have the same because they would be too strong' or 'be able to fit tank and gank' like some dropsuits can already do Always the same, infantry get everything vehicle users get nothing We need and deserve proper advanced/proto vehicles and if it turns on out my basic slot estimation on them is right then great, if its not then i expect for some damn good passive skills on the tanks to be useful because we need tanks that can stand up to these proto AV weapons which dish out more damage than out turrets can ever do Tank and gank? You're obviously talking about assault suits. I'm not disagreeing that HAV jocks should get advanced and proto vehicles. I just don't think it should make dedicated infantry based AV useless VS the HAV which is what Heavy/Forge is for at the moment. I don't use SWARMS. I personally don't like them. I prefer the challenge of aiming my shots. Besides, SWARMS are much more effective on assault drop suits than on heavies.
But AV is a specialization is it not? some players go AV all day everyday and love wrecking vehicles
Same with AR tryhards and vehicle users
Why should vehicle users get ****** over yet again? why should AV have it so eazy?
In PC ther will be proto vehicles fighting each other with proto AV around also
In pub matches i dont care if the entire team only has milita AV against my 10mil ISK proto HAV, tough luck its a pub match you roll the dice and you get randoms its PC where it counts |
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EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
1332
|
Posted - 2013.06.24 10:56:00 -
[41] - Quote
Shijima Kuraimaru wrote:EnglishSnake wrote:Shijima Kuraimaru wrote:Shijima Kuraimaru wrote:EnglishSnake wrote:
Yeah because you know my SMG is just so terrifyingly effective for close encounters right? It's not like I can use my SMG and FG akimbo.
I only agree with you as far as AV Grenades, well maybe proximity mines too, but I have no experience using them. But SWARMS should make a HAV jock cautious, and the Forge should make a HAV jock sweat.
Dont worry use the new command suit of whatever Heavy suit , duvolle in 1 slot swarms in the other I see the dropsuits have proto with big slot increases but yet again infantry says vehicles cant have the same because they would be too strong' or 'be able to fit tank and gank' like some dropsuits can already do Always the same, infantry get everything vehicle users get nothing We need and deserve proper advanced/proto vehicles and if it turns on out my basic slot estimation on them is right then great, if its not then i expect for some damn good passive skills on the tanks to be useful because we need tanks that can stand up to these proto AV weapons which dish out more damage than out turrets can ever do Tank and gank? You're obviously talking about assault suits. I'm not disagreeing that HAV jocks should get advanced and proto vehicles. I just don't think it should make dedicated infantry based AV useless VS the HAV which is what Heavy/Forge is for at the moment. I don't use SWARMS. I personally don't like them. I prefer the challenge of aiming my shots. Besides, SWARMS are much more effective on assault drop suits than on heavies. But AV is a specialization is it not? some players go AV all day everyday and love wrecking vehicles Same with AR tryhards and vehicle users Why should vehicle users get ****** over yet again? why should AV have it so eazy? In PC ther will be proto vehicles fighting each other with proto AV around also In pub matches i dont care if the entire team only has milita AV against my 10mil ISK proto HAV, tough luck its a pub match you roll the dice and you get randoms its PC where it counts Yeah, AV has it so easy. OHK buy front bumper of LAV, HAV tread, large Rail Turrets, and death in less than three seconds by large Blaster Turrets and large Missile Turrets. And I'm sure it has been mentioned more than once, even by some of your fellow HAV jocks, that where Forge AV is concerned HAVs move five times faster than a heavy and have ten times the HP. Not to mention the infantry heavy being equally vulnerable to all battlefield threats where a HAV isn't. Yes vehicles love killing infantry whether or not it's AV. So on the inverse, if you take your 10mil ISK vehicle into a pub match and it gets wrecked, tough luck. You roll the dice and take your risks. Just remember that with all the weapons out there, the only threat to your beloved vehicles is Infantry AV and another HAV. That means that of all the weapons available, your HAV is vulnerable to less than 30% of them. Must be nice as the only two don't affect me are SWARM and AV Grenades. Not sure if proximity mines detonate on infantry.
Its hard to run ppl over in a HAV, generally you push them around until they happen to get under your HAV then they get crushed, its easier with a LAV but i use a pimped out LLAV
Large rail turrets lol, need a direct hit because splash got nerfed to ****
Large blaster can be accurate but short range
Large missiles lolno they cant do **** to anything
In general like ive said all large installations shouldnt be auto shooting at anything unless someone is in it and chances are they are blown up anyways
HAVs only move faster when in a straight line, any kind of turning slows you right down and you catch anything its stops you dead pretty much not too mention we cant reverse as such unless we just hit reverse and try to guess our way through and enviromental damage wrecks a shield tank an armor not so much but its still enough
The only threat is AV and vehicles and installations and enviromental damage and concentrated small arms fire |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
1336
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 10:52:00 -
[42] - Quote
Its not dead yet |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
1341
|
Posted - 2013.06.27 10:01:00 -
[43] - Quote
EDIT: Vehicle recall - It is getting abused a little
Example - HAV getting whacked by an enemy, he jumps out and manages to recall it saving it
2 problems here for me
1. If the vehicle is getting whacked by an enemy and the enemy is causing damage you shouldnt be able to recall it till maybe 30secs after the last bit of damage - It stops players hopping out and instantly recalling it
2. If the vehicle is below 30% of its total HP it cannot be recalled - This gives the attacking AV or vehicle a chance to kill the vehicle and it stops johnny from nipping out and doing a 5sec button press to instantly recall it before its about to die
Now this would be ideal with squad lock and the ability to kick players out of vehicles because atm if someone is in your tank you cannot recall it or get rid of them or prevent them from entering your tank in the 1st place |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
1345
|
Posted - 2013.06.27 11:10:00 -
[44] - Quote
No its possible
Basic 200k
Enforcer lol - 1.2mil
Advanced - 2.5mil or more
Proto - 5mil at least
1mil turret and mods can add another 2mil then pilot suit and mods also would crank it up
10mil is a high estimate but it could be |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
1366
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 09:57:00 -
[45] - Quote
EDIT: Vehicle skills
Some skills offer resistance to either shield or armor like core upgrades does, problem is that they stack with other skills that offer resistance bonuses like the LLAV
So when you put on that 1st resistance plate it is already getting hit with the stacking penalty
I feel that skills shouldnt be effected by stacking penaltys and only the modules themselves should get hit with stacking penaltys |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
1404
|
Posted - 2013.07.13 12:33:00 -
[46] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:Like I said, I think he hates us for some people requesting that he do some hateful things, and get fired. 
Maybe he has been fired
Havnt heard from him for a long long time |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
1405
|
Posted - 2013.07.13 19:13:00 -
[47] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:Don't you think he would've said bye. I miss him
I dont think he said hello did he? |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
1414
|
Posted - 2013.07.14 11:23:00 -
[48] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Alpha 443-6732 wrote:Also, where the **** is CCP BLAM!?
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EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
1437
|
Posted - 2013.07.15 10:47:00 -
[49] - Quote
Alpha 443-6732 wrote:Alpha 443-6732 wrote:EnglishSnake wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Alpha 443-6732 wrote:Also, where the **** is CCP BLAM!?
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EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
1437
|
Posted - 2013.07.15 16:30:00 -
[50] - Quote
EnglishSnake wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Alpha 443-6732 wrote:Also, where the **** is CCP BLAM!?
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EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
1441
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 13:03:00 -
[51] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Bump
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EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
1443
|
Posted - 2013.07.20 14:25:00 -
[52] - Quote
If a fix happens, its the end of armor tanks
Shield may survive but the days of wanting tanks to support infantry will be well and truly over since basic AV can and does often deliever more damage than the rep can handle
2.5k rep is meh for armor since majority of AV hurts it more and does more damage to armor
AV nades will instantly take 3k off for basic nades, using Lai Dai that 6k+ gone
Swarms still broken will just go around your cover and still hit more than the rep can handle
Looks like FT rail tank sniping is the only way |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
1452
|
Posted - 2013.08.04 12:48:00 -
[53] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Bendtner92 wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:CCP blam where are you? Gone. Replaced with CCP Wolfman
Where is CCP wolfman? |
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