DUST Search - Lower the SP bar

Cosgar wrote:

If you focus on one weapon and one suit class with core skills, 2-3 million SP will get you in good enough shape to be competitive against players going full prototype. It may seem like you're never going to catch up, but after around 9-10 million, a player will be pretty much maxed out in one class and weapon/sidearm. SP really doesn't matter after that unless you're working on another role/weapon.
But with that said, the skill tree still needs some serious work. Basic suits are pretty redundant and for classes like logistics and scouts, it's an unnecessary, redundant SP sink. I haven't gotten my optional respec and until them, I'm stuck with a prototype medium frame Mk.0 that I never use. On top of that, there are still several skills that are just blank perquisites just to unlock other skills and equipment.. Even if they provide something like a CPU/PG reduction for equipping something or even a bonus to effects that certain items generate. For example, a level in nanocircuitry could add a bonus to 5% nanite clusters per level since they've been nerfed at standard level and there's no real difference at the advanced and prototype levels.

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PonyClause Rex TRAMADOL KNIGHTS 49	Posted - 2013.06.09 13:14:00 - [1] - Quote I would like the SP bar lowered significantly. Ive been playing the game a few weeks now, a couple hours an evening after work and ive only got about 2.1mill SP That sounds allot but it really doesn't buy you much in terms of skill tree unlocks Ive spec'd into assault rifles but would like to try other weapons but the bar is sometimes high enough to put me off even trying them because if i don't like that weapon then its a waist of SP that i could of used on my favored weapon system. choices eh? But if said bar were to be lowered, then the risk in deviating from your skill plan can be acceptable. This will enable new players to train a variety of weapons suits etc early on or allow them to train there core suit skills quicker. Or will this disrupt aurum / cash flow that is the choice CCP will have to make, MONEYS NOW OR A SOLID PLAYER BASE!!
Allah's Snackbar Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic 93	Posted - 2013.06.09 13:26:00 - [2] - Quote I think you are answering your own question. If CCP can extract a decent sum from most players who try to catch up then they don't need everybody to stay forever. The barrier to entry is completely by design you realize? Added to this that beta players retained their SP before the release of the game there's always a group to try to catch while they easily stomp new comers. And given the low player base and broken match making there's a lot of rusted on beta players doing that stomping. So you either spend and go for broke or accept it. Personally I wouldn't pay CCP any money because of this terrible state of affairs.
PonyClause Rex TRAMADOL KNIGHTS 49	Posted - 2013.06.09 13:34:00 - [3] - Quote I can confirm that my accumulated SP in the time ive spent playing is from not spending a penny on boosters. So they are essentially turning new players away (future player base) 'by design' but as long as they are getting there money they don't care enough to change it ? They need a solid player base first to essentially 'rip off' AND a bunch of beta testers does not constitute as a solid player base
Allah's Snackbar Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic 96	Posted - 2013.06.09 13:52:00 - [4] - Quote CCP have miscalculated badly. They have built the game but the people simply have not turned up as you would have expected. They are not getting a base to "rip off". Between the disaster of losing the players they have they are only offering the illusion equal gaming in the forms of crassly priced packs for items of mixed value to new players. A booster is in fact your subscription to catch the people in game who simply stomp you. It's like a three card trick that if fails doesn't leave CCP with much to play.
Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp 167	Posted - 2013.06.09 13:55:00 - [5] - Quote It was an open beta so if you are behind it is your own fault. That said, I do agree there needs to be a remedy to this SP disparity situation. My suggestion: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=85976&find=unread Keep in mind this would only effect Instant Battles. Not FW or PC battles. It would give new players a place to "catch up" without getting repeatedly stomped by vets.
PonyClause Rex TRAMADOL KNIGHTS 49	Posted - 2013.06.09 14:00:00 - [6] - Quote Master Jaraiya wrote: It was an open beta so if you are behind it is your own fault. I disagree, the fact that im behind most in terms of SP is through my reluctance to purchase boosters with RL cash or invest in what is essentially a broken game, rather than my absence in an open /closed alpha /beta
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. League of Infamy 338	Posted - 2013.06.09 14:01:00 - [7] - Quote I'm sure most vets run both boosters. New guys aren't going to catch up. But you can only bring so much SP to the battlefield with each individual clone. That said, they should raise the starting SP significantly.
Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp 167	Posted - 2013.06.09 14:04:00 - [8] - Quote PonyClause Rex wrote: Master Jaraiya wrote: It was an open beta so if you are behind it is your own fault. I disagree, the fact that im behind most in terms of SP is through my reluctance to purchase boosters with RL cash or invest in what is essentially a broken game, rather than my absence in an open /closed alpha /beta Not so much. Boosters do help, but not as much as you may think. I have been playing since the start of March and have 6 mil SP. I have never used a booster. Some of the older vets have more than twice that. Some have less than or equal to what I have.
Sir Petersen Valhalla Nord 155	Posted - 2013.06.09 14:08:00 - [9] - Quote PonyClause Rex wrote: Master Jaraiya wrote: It was an open beta so if you are behind it is your own fault. I disagree, the fact that im behind most in terms of SP is through my reluctance to purchase boosters with RL cash or invest in what is essentially a broken game, rather than my absence in an open /closed alpha /beta So my (close to) 10 million skill points is my imagination? There will always be someone who has more skill points than the next person in a ongoing game like this one. You need to stop thinking COD and start to realise that this game is a long run and will not reset every year. Again. There will be new players joining in a year, two years and so on and all of them will be behind you in points and probably here on the forum crying over the same stuff as you are doing now. Broken game? If you think so them move on to the next one and let the rest of us enjoy DUST514.
Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp 167	Posted - 2013.06.09 14:11:00 - [10] - Quote Sir Petersen wrote: There will always be someone who has more skill points than the next person in a ongoing game like this one. You need to stop thinking COD and start to realise that this game is a long run and will not reset every year. Again. There will be new players joining in a year, two years and so on and all of them will be behind you in points and probably here on the forum crying over the same stuff as you are doing now. My suggestion for Instant Battles Here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=85976&find=unread would solve any issues that could ever arise for current and future noobs because of this.

PonyClause Rex TRAMADOL KNIGHTS 49	Posted - 2013.06.09 14:12:00 - [11] - Quote Sir Petersen wrote: PonyClause Rex wrote: Master Jaraiya wrote: It was an open beta so if you are behind it is your own fault. I disagree, the fact that im behind most in terms of SP is through my reluctance to purchase boosters with RL cash or invest in what is essentially a broken game, rather than my absence in an open /closed alpha /beta So my (close to) 10 million skill points is my imagination? There will always be someone who has more skill points than the next person in a ongoing game like this one. You need to stop thinking COD and start to realise that this game is a long run and will not reset every year. Again. There will be new players joining in a year, two years and so on and all of them will be behind you in points and probably here on the forum crying over the same stuff as you are doing now. Broken game? If you think so them move on to the next one and let the rest of us enjoy DUST514. Lets try to keep things civil ok? its what separates us from the animals. Ive never played CoD i was more BF, I am how ever a long term player of EVE and even they eventuly realised that new players are the future they took measures to allow a new players to compete on some level at least for example Removal of learning skills frigs and cruiser viable to use and FW is a good entry standred for new players too overhaul of tutorial and so on...
Shrapnels Better Hide R Die D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 109	Posted - 2013.06.09 14:30:00 - [12] - Quote From being a Templar with only 2million flat SP; 2.1million SP is believe it or not actually enough to have a *Decent* character build & do fairly well if you have Gun Skill. The problem is that most New players don't have a clue how to Spec into their character properly because they don't take the time to read into the Skills properly when evaluating how to Create-a-Character.
Sir Petersen Valhalla Nord 156	Posted - 2013.06.09 14:31:00 - [13] - Quote I don-¦t even understand when people go on about skill points all day long like the game is unplayable without them. Especially when I-¦m running around in my Dragonfly Scout with my BluePrint AR & DropUplink with great success. It is easy to build up good skills quickly if you focus on what matters and what to use. Focus on your gameplay rather than skill points 2 go pro.
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 1264	Posted - 2013.06.09 14:33:00 - [14] - Quote If you focus on one weapon and one suit class with core skills, 2-3 million SP will get you in good enough shape to be competitive against players going full prototype. It may seem like you're never going to catch up, but after around 9-10 million, a player will be pretty much maxed out in one class and weapon/sidearm. SP really doesn't matter after that unless you're working on another role/weapon. But with that said, the skill tree still needs some serious work. Basic suits are pretty redundant and for classes like logistics and scouts, it's an unnecessary, redundant SP sink. I haven't gotten my optional respec and until them, I'm stuck with a prototype medium frame Mk.0 that I never use. On top of that, there are still several skills that are just blank perquisites just to unlock other skills and equipment.. Even if they provide something like a CPU/PG reduction for equipping something or even a bonus to effects that certain items generate. For example, a level in nanocircuitry could add a bonus to 5% nanite clusters per level since they've been nerfed at standard level and there's no real difference at the advanced and prototype levels.
Meknow Intaki Northwind Alliance 18	Posted - 2013.06.09 14:50:00 - [15] - Quote Wouldn't it be great if this game was so easy I could get all the equipment and weapons in a month of grinding Then for the next five years I can ***** about how everyone is a super solder who can specialize in everything and how there is nothing to work for
PonyClause Rex TRAMADOL KNIGHTS 49	Posted - 2013.06.09 14:51:00 - [16] - Quote Sir Petersen wrote: I don-¦t even understand when people go on about skill points all day long like the game is unplayable without them. Especially when I-¦m running around in my Dragonfly Scout with my BluePrint AR & DropUplink with great success. It is easy to build up good skills quickly if you focus on what matters and what to use. Focus on your gameplay rather than skill points 2 go pro. Several good points made here, but i never said the game is unplayable simply it took a long time to reach a mediocre slandered with (in my case) a decant amount of skills invested in assault rifle some core skills and just about enough skills to unlock the lowest end support modules ; nades, nano hives and even a side arm. As far as personal player skills are concerned if they are as much of a factor as some players make out then there shouldn't be a problem with lowering the bar in terms of SP allowing access to isk variants of weapons mods and suits etc earlier to give people a sense of progression.
PonyClause Rex TRAMADOL KNIGHTS 49	Posted - 2013.06.09 14:53:00 - [17] - Quote Meknow Intaki wrote: Wouldn't it be great if this game was so easy I could get all the equipment and weapons in a month of grinding Then for the next five years I can ***** about how everyone is a super solder who can specialize in everything and how there is nothing to work for Your attempt at sarcasm? Or was that how you interpreted my post if so then i invite you to read it again sir.
Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp 167	Posted - 2013.06.09 14:56:00 - [18] - Quote Cosgar wrote: If you focus on one weapon and one suit class with core skills, 2-3 million SP will get you in good enough shape to be competitive against players going full prototype. It may seem like you're never going to catch up, but after around 9-10 million, a player will be pretty much maxed out in one class and weapon/sidearm. SP really doesn't matter after that unless you're working on another role/weapon. But with that said, the skill tree still needs some serious work. Basic suits are pretty redundant and for classes like logistics and scouts, it's an unnecessary, redundant SP sink. I haven't gotten my optional respec and until them, I'm stuck with a prototype medium frame Mk.0 that I never use. On top of that, there are still several skills that are just blank perquisites just to unlock other skills and equipment.. Even if they provide something like a CPU/PG reduction for equipping something or even a bonus to effects that certain items generate. For example, a level in nanocircuitry could add a bonus to 5% nanite clusters per level since they've been nerfed at standard level and there's no real difference at the advanced and prototype levels. Dropsuit Shield Upgrades and Armor Upgrades to LVL 5 each costs about 1.3 mil SP alone. Whatever weapon you decide to use you must spec into its Operation Skill then all of the complimentary skills (proficiency, sharpshooter, rapid reload, etc) you are looking at at least 2 mil SP probably alot more. Grenades and Side arm or Equipment if you are Logi, another couple mil SP easily. Don't forget about shield, armor, or speed modules these will set you back about a mil per to LVL 5 These are to me the most necessary to have before you even think of speccing into dropsuits. A good Idea is to take all these skills up together (what I am trying to do), but doing this grind while getting continuously protostomped by players who already have all of these skills and more maxed out is not profitable. Seriously check out my link above and tell me honestly that that wouldn't benefit the game by keeping new players interested. EDIT: Lowering the bar is not the answer. I had to work for it so should everyone else, just make it a more competitive grind.
Longshot Ravenwood Algintal Core Gallente Federation 711	Posted - 2013.06.09 16:02:00 - [19] - Quote If you want to try out new things first there are the militia variants. Militia can give you a taste of what its like to be a medium frame, heavy frame, or light frame combatant. They can let you figure out how to use nanohives, drop uplinks, nanite injectors, and repair tools, give you a taste for how percision, dampening, and range modifiers affect your ability to see the battlefield and how cardiac regulators can help you move around it. Show you how armor plates, shield extenders, armor repairers and shield regulators can help you survive combat situations, and give you a taste for a decent variety of weapons (scrambler pistor, forge gun, sniper rifle, shotgun, swarm launcher, sub machine gun, assault rifle). Oh and you can try out vehicle equipment like the afterburner & the scanner. This means that the only things you don't get the immediate privilege to try are high sp specialties, right? I just created a fresh alt. No passive SP gain, just the initial 500k sp. Oh, and the 250,000 sneezing at isk we start with (real feedback, since we don't start with any specalties we should probably increase that amount so that people can buy skill books right away, instead of having to fight to get money before being able to fully skill). Dropsuit Command, Dropsuit Upgrades, Weaponry, Vehicle Command, Vehicle Upgrades, Turret Operation, and Corporations are the basic skills, each considered a x1 skill (upgrade costs are 6220 / 24870 / 68400 / 155460 / 310920) That's enough to get into any size frame or any weapon class, even a x4 like heavy suits (24800 / 99,480 / 273,600) -- which have the prerequisite of 68400 sp for the dropsuit upgrades. That said, the developers have missed an opportunity. In EVE-Online officer class gear is comparable to tech 2 (or prototype) gear, but superior. Officer gear would have reduced pg/cpu need, boosted stats, and reduced skill requirements. What we're currently missing are real officer gear drops. The kind of drops that would get people interested in spending AUR to continue using a weapon class until they can afford to skill into it & that would help with the motility of the economy of the game once we're able to sell equipment directly.
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1498	Posted - 2013.06.09 16:06:00 - [20] - Quote The bar should be lowered once we start getting more variety- I'm talking tech III (if you consider assault, logi, scout, and sentinel to be tech II)



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