DUST Search - Generic Passive SP vs Skill Training

Gaelon Thrace wrote:

Daedric Lothar wrote:

I dont want to have to login to my PS3 every day or every other day to train. Its hard enough doing that for EVE. At least for EVE I got an app that tells me when to login when I don't have time. I doubt that will ever happen for this game.

I haven't actually played EVE, so correct me if I'm wrong. The way skill training works in EVE, if you don't keep something in your skill queue at all times you're essentially losing skills because there aren't any Skill Points and you're losing time that you could have been training skills that you can't get back.
I believe what the OP suggested is that you still have passive skill gain, so if you don't have any skills queued up you end up with a pool of unspent SP. The skill queue just allows you to make progress toward leveling up that skill as you gain SP, rather than having to check your SP in between each match to see if you have enough to buy up a skill.
I personally think it's a great idea.

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Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 1	Posted - 2013.06.08 19:12:00 - [1] - Quote I have been around since the closed beta and know this topic have been discussed from time to time, and have even seen some recent treads about it. However I thought I bring it up again, as (in my opinion) it has introduced the false notion of a complete "grind" to get anywhere in the game. The reason? You tend to forget that passive sp exists... There is currently no real commitment required by the player to obtain passive sp, since technically you could create an account, activate the passive skill points, and leave the game for 6 months (or more), only to come back and blow all of it badly because you did not invest the time to find out what you actually placed points in... Just click away...Then beg for a respec On top of this, you can easily see how much skill points is required to level up a skill to level 5, but you don't see how long this will take (with only passive sp). You think: OMFG, 1,450,000 sp, and I make 5000 per game..., then make a quick calculation and assume it will take forever... With Skill Training (like EVE) you don't have this problem. You see exactly how long it will take (30d, 12h, 45m, 30s). This also force you to think before (activating) something, with the option to abort if you later change your mind, without blowing your entire pool. In addition, if you are invested in the game, you probably want to log in from time to time to check the progress, and fill up the skill queue. This is when you (hopefully) notice all the cool updates and fixes for bugs that caused you to rage quit the last time, making you play the games again. My preferred solution: Introduce Skill Training with its associated skill queue (like EVE), but keep the Active SP as is (in a generic pot), that the player can spend to shorten the time of a training, or level up a "non" trained skill if you have enough. All of the above is already in EVE in some form, and i believe the current Dust GUI can easily support it (just add blinking bar and a countdown clock) Enough ranting, need to get in the action again... To the war barge...
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 2	Posted - 2013.06.24 09:50:00 - [2] - Quote No opinions?, must be a bad idea then ;-) I don't know about the rest of you, but I would just like to mark the skill I want to train, then play the game and get a notification when it is completed...
FakeMyDeath Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance 25	Posted - 2013.06.24 10:29:00 - [3] - Quote Dude it's a good idea but i believe everyone has lost all hope....
Malkai Inos Opus Arcana Orion Empire 433	Posted - 2013.06.24 10:46:00 - [4] - Quote I'd like to see a timer that, based on passive gain, counts down how long it would take to reach the next (and/or max) level. Additionally a "mark for upgrade" funktion so i could choose the skill as well as level and just keep playing until beeing notified that the skill reached it's destination would be neat. This emulates EVEish skill training without actually changing all that much. Constantly having to check SP if i can upgrade a skill instead of starting the next match right away increases perceived grinding for me. Edit: Didn't read your second post. That's exactly what i'm talking about.
Django Quik R.I.f.t 731	Posted - 2013.06.24 11:24:00 - [5] - Quote This is good and I think it should be the only way to skill up to stop people making silly snap decisions that ultimately bite them in the butt. It will also eliminate the need to go back to the skill menu after a game to see if you've gotten enough skill points to train something because it will automatically train your next queued skill for you and notify you when it's done. An added benefit is that it will force people to plan ahead more and actually think about what they are/want to be doing in the game.
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 259	Posted - 2013.06.24 11:33:00 - [6] - Quote Really like this good counter for my tendency to go 'ohh shiny!' Whenever I have too much sp
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 969	Posted - 2013.06.24 14:03:00 - [7] - Quote From the title, I somehow imagined this to be a "third" kind of SP, where you'd get active for battles, passive for doing nothing, and trained SP to some specific skill you selected as a third thing. I wasn't sure if you'd be splitting passive in half to do it, or just be increasing the amount of SP people were getting by a large chunk. Hmm. I wouldn't be averse to additional tools to help people watch or manage their SP gains over time. There's not much in-game as far as skill planning goes, which is why we have all these offline spreadsheets and what-not. A timer by itself will be somewhat inaccurate on account of ignoring the fact you can get active. I kinda figured some sort of clever skill planning would have to wait till they released a Dust API, then people could rig a iOS or droid app to access their characters while screwing around with an in-app version of a skill planner.
Beren Hurin OMNI Endeavors 534	Posted - 2013.06.24 14:13:00 - [8] - Quote I like the idea of a kind of 'specialized training' SP, where you sign up for something, maybe your just another 'instant battle' option in the lobby, but then it puts you as a ringer into instant battles, and you have to complete a few objectives within each battle to get extra SP for that skill. There would only be very generic 'books' that would get you SP to spend and apply. The interface would be an item that could be looted, then you'd select one skill from one of the trees (weapons, vehicles, dropsuit upgrades, dropsuits, equipment, etc) and start to 'spec. train' that skill. You could get like an additional 5000 sp a match if you completed all of the objectives. Higher level skills would require more difficult objectives which also reward SP at greater intervals. Weapons skills would involve killing with the selected weapon branch. Dropsuit upgrades skills would require getting so many points with equipment. Dropsuit skills would involve generic objectives (capture points) and getting so many squad commendations points as a squad leader.
Daedric Lothar Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 697	Posted - 2013.06.24 14:26:00 - [9] - Quote I dont want to have to login to my PS3 every day or every other day to train. Its hard enough doing that for EVE. At least for EVE I got an app that tells me when to login when I don't have time. I doubt that will ever happen for this game.
Gaelon Thrace DUST University Ivy League 10	Posted - 2013.06.24 14:29:00 - [10] - Quote I support EVE style skill training.

Django Quik R.I.f.t 735	Posted - 2013.06.24 15:44:00 - [11] - Quote Daedric Lothar wrote: I dont want to have to login to my PS3 every day or every other day to train. Its hard enough doing that for EVE. At least for EVE I got an app that tells me when to login when I don't have time. I doubt that will ever happen for this game. The suggested system doesn't necessarily copy the eve system where if you don't update your queue you lose the extra SP.
Gaelon Thrace DUST University Ivy League 10	Posted - 2013.06.24 15:56:00 - [12] - Quote Daedric Lothar wrote: I dont want to have to login to my PS3 every day or every other day to train. Its hard enough doing that for EVE. At least for EVE I got an app that tells me when to login when I don't have time. I doubt that will ever happen for this game. I haven't actually played EVE, so correct me if I'm wrong. The way skill training works in EVE, if you don't keep something in your skill queue at all times you're essentially losing skills because there aren't any Skill Points and you're losing time that you could have been training skills that you can't get back. I believe what the OP suggested is that you still have passive skill gain, so if you don't have any skills queued up you end up with a pool of unspent SP. The skill queue just allows you to make progress toward leveling up that skill as you gain SP, rather than having to check your SP in between each match to see if you have enough to buy up a skill. I personally think it's a great idea.
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 8	Posted - 2013.06.24 16:06:00 - [13] - Quote Gaelon Thrace wrote: Daedric Lothar wrote: I dont want to have to login to my PS3 every day or every other day to train. Its hard enough doing that for EVE. At least for EVE I got an app that tells me when to login when I don't have time. I doubt that will ever happen for this game. I haven't actually played EVE, so correct me if I'm wrong. The way skill training works in EVE, if you don't keep something in your skill queue at all times you're essentially losing skills because there aren't any Skill Points and you're losing time that you could have been training skills that you can't get back. I believe what the OP suggested is that you still have passive skill gain, so if you don't have any skills queued up you end up with a pool of unspent SP. The skill queue just allows you to make progress toward leveling up that skill as you gain SP, rather than having to check your SP in between each match to see if you have enough to buy up a skill. I personally think it's a great idea. Yes this is what I implied, however clumsily ^ You would not loose any skill points after the "training" is complete, this will just be collected as before (in the generic pool). I also like the ideas with mission specific SP as was mentioned earlier, but this is not really related to what I was speaking of.


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