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PC is a Failure: Can players make it fun some how?

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VEXation Gunn Imperfects Negative-Feedback 59	Posted - 2013.06.08 18:43:00 - [1] - Quote So it's been about 3 weeks of PC and most of the groups involved are bored/giving up on it. I know the lads at CCP tried hard to make its fun and meaningful but its not. It's a job not a game. If you would remember back to the beginning of open beta and the daily cap it's the same here. Those involved in PC are basically punching a clock for CCP on a daily basis. I'm sorry CCP but PC is just a bad design. On top of that there are a lot of errors happening that is screwing over one side or the other and CCP does nothing to correct them. Just silence. When players plan to fight and then win/lose and districts are bugged we just have to live with it. I don't think CCP actually treats dust/PC as a real release. To them it just beta that they make money off of. While CCP Foxfour and Nullarbor have gone above and beyond the call to make things right its not enough. The game beyond PC is terrible from a FPS standpoint and the balance/RPG aspects of the game are as bad as could be. Finally CCP Shanghai hasn't listened to real feedback for the last 14 months what makes you think they will now? When I read reviews of dust it could easily be mistaken for things said in the forums over and over again. We as a community could probably make a list of everything that is bad / wrong with PC (and dust) but that's not going to do us any good because CCP in general still has the Incarna mentality for dust. It's all about what they want it to be regardless of how bad it really is. It seems to me no one wants to be viewed as a PC quitter (mainly because I will call them names) because this is what dust is suppose to be about. So the vast majority of PC corps/players are burning themselves out on it. In all honesty I don't blame anyone who thinks PC isn't worth the effort. In reality those that do quit are the honest ones telling CCP it's just not good enough. Respect. So that said what can players do to enjoy PC as it is now? I will start with suggestions and please add on your own. I will add them back to the OP to help keep track. - Take the planet Oddelulf and make it "Planet Fight Club" (Apparently Cronos didn't want that planet anyways). It has 24 districts and we can give the districts out for free to corps that want to be involved in it. Change the structure to production for clone replenishment and just fight for fun there.
VEXation Gunn Imperfects Negative-Feedback 68	Posted - 2013.06.08 19:23:00 - [2] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: I haven't been in PC yet, obviously, but the whole thing seems kindof stupid atm. One 16 player team can hold a planet because of all the restrictions Honestly, nobody needs more money, ever since the our assets were liquidated Eve corps apparently don't give a damn I thought dust was supposed to be about eve players hiring us to help them- PC just keeps dust isolated. I always thought this was the plan or at least what we were told for years. I think what happened is ccp went what they assumed was the simple/best route to develop dust as its own. I know many dust players asked/pushed for owning districts too (that can't be overlooked). I think we can all admit in hindsight its not really want we wanted. We want to be valuable in new eden, have impact, and be able to make a difference.
VEXation Gunn Imperfects Negative-Feedback 72	Posted - 2013.06.08 20:06:00 - [3] - Quote mrunknown2u2 wrote: VEXation Gunn wrote: So it's been about 3 weeks of PC and most of the groups involved are bored/giving up on it. I know the lads at CCP tried hard to make its fun and meaningful but its not. It's a job not a game. If you would remember back to the beginning of open beta and the daily cap it's the same here. Those involved in PC are basically punching a clock for CCP on a daily basis. I'm sorry CCP but PC is just a bad design. On top of that there are a lot of errors happening that is screwing over one side or the other and CCP does nothing to correct them. Just silence. When players plan to fight and then win/lose and districts are bugged we just have to live with it. I don't think CCP actually treats dust/PC as a real release. To them it just beta that they make money off of. While CCP Foxfour and Nullarbor have gone above and beyond the call to make things right its not enough. The game beyond PC is terrible from a FPS standpoint and the balance/RPG aspects of the game are as bad as could be. Finally CCP Shanghai hasn't listened to real feedback for the last 14 months what makes you think they will now? When I read reviews of dust it could easily be mistaken for things said in the forums over and over again. We as a community could probably make a list of everything that is bad / wrong with PC (and dust) but that's not going to do us any good because CCP in general still has the Incarna mentality for dust. It's all about what they want it to be regardless of how bad it really is. It seems to me no one wants to be viewed as a PC quitter (mainly because I will call them names) because this is what dust is suppose to be about. So the vast majority of PC corps/players are burning themselves out on it. In all honesty I don't blame anyone who thinks PC isn't worth the effort. In reality those that do quit are the honest ones telling CCP it's just not good enough. Respect. So that said what can players do to enjoy PC as it is now? I will start with suggestions and please add on your own. I will add them back to the OP to help keep track. - Take the planet Oddelulf and make it "Planet Fight Club" (Apparently Cronos didn't want that planet anyways). It has 24 districts and we can give the districts out for free to corps that want to be involved in it. Change the structure to production for clone replenishment and just fight for fun there. and when do do win this is how your rewarded DUST PC WTF VS. ILL OMENS Filed at 08.06.2013 19:20 by mrunknown2u2 My corp had two matches against what the french today. Both at 1820 one on oddeulf district 6 and one on altbrad district 13. In both games the enemy did not show up. we won these games by mcc destruction. at the end of the game the wtf are still online 300 +80 they lost nothing and we lost 160mil for the attacks. i think this glictch happened because they were at the exact same time idk. but i would like this to count as a lost on their side look into it asap please remove their clones.... edit in another battle with them right now where they no showed i will let you know if they lose clones. MESSAGES Posted at 08.06.2013 19:27 by mrunknown2u2 ok just finished the third battle that they no showed and the clones were taken. i think the bug happened because there were two battles at once please please fix we are relaunching the attacks tomorrow the districts should be ours This happened to imps today when we attacked SI on oddelulf district 20. SI No showed we won by MCC destruction and the lost no clones and still online. CCP will say nothing, take 2 weeks to fix it, and not do right by the mercs that ccp screwed over. Bascially ccp introduced a new bug into the system because they don't think they need a test server. #DustInBeta2.0
VEXation Gunn Imperfects Negative-Feedback 72	Posted - 2013.06.08 20:08:00 - [4] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Although I am not involved in PC myself I am sure Kane and Jenza would be interested in reading this. I can tell you kain is "sick and ******* tired" of so many bugs. Beyond that I wont speak on his behalf.
VEXation Gunn Imperfects Negative-Feedback 76	Posted - 2013.06.08 20:24:00 - [5] - Quote mrunknown2u2 wrote: This is the test server u missed the memo bro sigh
VEXation Gunn Imperfects Negative-Feedback 77	Posted - 2013.06.08 20:32:00 - [6] - Quote Cass Barr wrote: And of course the opposite happened to us. We won a defense fight, didn't receive reinforcements, and were stuck with about 40 clones on the next fight. So if you win you lose and if you lose you win? However, its random so you don't actually know if you are suppose to win or lose a match to actually win or lose it. #ReallyCCP
VEXation Gunn Imperfects Negative-Feedback 80	Posted - 2013.06.08 20:38:00 - [7] - Quote Sponglyboy Squaredoo wrote: PC is just starting up... of cource the first days are going to seem like a penalty rather than a opportunity I know the imps have enjoyed people "having" to fight us for a bit. We win a lot so its fun for us can't deny that. The key issue is winning means nothing. You get more more districts that's it. We don't want farm514 we want to fight.
VEXation Gunn Imperfects Negative-Feedback 86	Posted - 2013.06.08 21:47:00 - [8] - Quote Wombat in combat wrote: While what you say is true you can't deny progress is being made. With Dust CCP is aiming for the more casual player, timers don't really work for the casual, something else is needed. Instead of being pacifist I have full trust in that CCP will make the adjusments needed to make PC less work-like. Dust is a product of CCP culture and philosophy that is a the core of whats wrong. There are individuals that work hard and do the best job then can on dust. They however can not carry CCP to greatness. In the end this is Incarna mentality "CCP Knows best so shut you will learn to like it" Truth of the matter is developing a fps with rpg/mmo mechanics that has to live in the Eve universe is a tough task. That however is not an excuse to do a **** poor job of it.
VEXation Gunn Imperfects Negative-Feedback 94	Posted - 2013.06.08 22:23:00 - [9] - Quote Obodiah Garro wrote: Hardcore players are being catered to the most actually, its called the skill points levelling system A casual player will need to invest in boosters if he realistically wants to be competitive if he plays dust as a weekend warrior PC is geared toward the hardcore it is very evident now. It's the hardcore players that are bored/burnt though.
VEXation Gunn Imperfects Negative-Feedback 94	Posted - 2013.06.08 22:28:00 - [10] - Quote xjumpman23 wrote: #DUSTISTRASH #FREEXPROTOMAN23 CCP needs to release some patch notes before they further screw up this game with incarna 1.2 I would like to go on record in saying my OP is 100% rant against ccp and dust.

VEXation Gunn Imperfects Negative-Feedback 100	Posted - 2013.06.08 23:28:00 - [11] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: I have a question to anyone who can answer this- HRs from corps in PC. Are the PC rewards useful at all? Do you mean to the individual participates in the match or to the corps involved? Honestly it's not really worth to either from a time/effort stand point. The only reason there isn't much QQ is because everyone got tons of isk for 5 months of loot going into this build. So corps and players had lots of isk to put towards PC. I can tell you as successful as imps have been its been a huge negative isk wise and we would need to hold Farmville districts for months with out fighting to recoup just the cost. I can't begin to calculate what it would be like to other groups.
VEXation Gunn Imperfects Negative-Feedback 100	Posted - 2013.06.08 23:33:00 - [12] - Quote trollsroyce wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: I have a question to anyone who can answer this- HRs from corps in PC. Are the PC rewards useful at all? PC is fully built around favoring the victor. If you win, you get the clones and more importantly, you get a morale boost whereas the loser gets burnt out. The clone production is not bad ISK if you are left alone: 8-12M per district per day. This favors the victorious corporations further, as not many dare attack them. PC mechanics favor the victor of individual 16vs16 fights way too much. It's in essence a glorified clan ladder; numbers do not matter, strategy does not matter, metagame matters a little, it's just all about who wins fights. Why are you still posting on these forums. You are free from dust now. Run! Don't walk to the bar and/or fridge to drink many beers in celebration.
VEXation Gunn Imperfects Negative-Feedback 100	Posted - 2013.06.08 23:47:00 - [13] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: You can't blame CCP for players being burned out. If you want to own the entire Molden Heath......or, practically speaking, if you want to hold 15 districts, then you will be having a lot of battles. That isn't CCP's fault...that is corps wishing to hold a lot of territory. If corps wish...they can sell some of the districts and maybe corps that aren't in PC may be able to hop in and get some action. Hey carebear imps can't give away districts to new corps even if we offer them help if they get attacked. CCP designed PC pretty terribad. If you go back months we were on CCP's ass about making PC better for small/med groups. CCP listened and made things worse. Also burn out isn't about having to fight 18 times a day its about the fact its boring, very time consuming, repetitive, boring, unrewarding, boring, and not cost effective. Then you wake up and do the same thing the next day. Also I would just like to point out most corps haven't fought that much this last week. I know imps have lots of days off.
VEXation Gunn Imperfects Negative-Feedback 103	Posted - 2013.06.09 00:34:00 - [14] - Quote Cass Barr wrote: People who keep saying PC is only for the top elite 1% or whatever bullshit number they made up are full of it. Yeah I'm looking at you Trolls, though you're hardly the only one QQ'ing about it. A top of the line best of the best 100 man corp should realistically only expect to defend 3-6 districts in the long term, unless people are just plain too scared to attack them. They can take most any district because they're the best of the best, but offense and defense are and will always be completely different animals. Now there are clearly serious issues with PC in general and things that need to be addressed. But the people complaining about burnout inflicted it on themselves by putting their corps at the mercy of up to 40 timers a day. Because they were greedy and dumb and didn't bother to think about what would happen when they were having to defend 20 districts. Every. Single. Day. You want more corps in PC? Quit trying to hold more land than you can realistically defend. Payouts need to be adjusted, or what will likely happen is top corps will just roam around the map, kicking lower corps off land and selling off the districts (or extorting them). Payouts are so low and attack costs are so high (and consequently, selling prices) that trying to be involved in PC will be a significant net loss for anyone not able to attack and sell off land in a very efficient manner. So eventually corps quit buying and the whole thing stagnates into Farmville with attacks only being instigated by sheer boredom with the system. There is self inflicted burnout yes. I can say that imps have managed their district/timer/battles pretty well so far. We never have a bigger foot print in PC that we need to attack the next district. Are imps burnt out? Yes. It's more to do with the fact that PC is broken, boring, and unrewarding then fighting to many battles. Which we haven't. PC also has low replay ability and there really isn't anything dynamic that players have to respond too. Don't even get me started on the sp sinks instead of content.
VEXation Gunn Imperfects Negative-Feedback 103	Posted - 2013.06.09 00:37:00 - [15] - Quote crazy space 1 wrote: right this is beta you cant even player to player item swap for gods sake CCP nothing solved this problem already he made loot so rare you get like 1 M209 smg like every 3 weeks. If there isn't a need to trade there won't be a demand to trade. problem solved
VEXation Gunn Imperfects Negative-Feedback 109	Posted - 2013.06.09 02:15:00 - [16] - Quote Sponglyboy Squaredoo wrote: Mitsuko'Souma wrote: PC will continue to be completely pointless until they open it up to everyone. Honestly this is what normal skirmish mode should be, and mercenaries-for-hire should be able to jump into these battles on whichever side is hiring. This is what they made Dust 514 out to be in those extremely misleading game trailers from a few years ago. Also, none of the above can even be done with the pathetic 16 vs 16 battles. What a joke. MAG is a 3/4 year old game and allows 256 people on the battlefield with very little lag and looks much better graphically than Dust. What is CCP's excuse? Does the interconnectivity with EVE really sap that much resources? Not to mention the fact that CCP changed the graphics which welcomed the lag we are currently getting. We were not receiving the lag and frame rate issues in Chromosome that we are now. It's as if this is intentional. I don't recall anyone complaining about Chromosome's graphics The graphics in chromosome were just not that good. They improved some things in uprising but if its effected game play then I am speechless
VEXation Gunn Imperfects Negative-Feedback 110	Posted - 2013.06.09 02:19:00 - [17] - Quote Sponglyboy Squaredoo wrote: VEXation Gunn wrote: Sponglyboy Squaredoo wrote: Mitsuko'Souma wrote: PC will continue to be completely pointless until they open it up to everyone. Honestly this is what normal skirmish mode should be, and mercenaries-for-hire should be able to jump into these battles on whichever side is hiring. This is what they made Dust 514 out to be in those extremely misleading game trailers from a few years ago. Also, none of the above can even be done with the pathetic 16 vs 16 battles. What a joke. MAG is a 3/4 year old game and allows 256 people on the battlefield with very little lag and looks much better graphically than Dust. What is CCP's excuse? Does the interconnectivity with EVE really sap that much resources? Not to mention the fact that CCP changed the graphics which welcomed the lag we are currently getting. We were not receiving the lag and frame rate issues in Chromosome that we are now. It's as if this is intentional. I don't recall anyone complaining about Chromosome's graphics The graphics in chromosome were just not that good. They improved some things in uprising but if its effected game play then I am speechless I wouldn't mind the graphic change if we didn't have to pay so much for it I think this goes back to the issue of "making dust a good fps game" and its failures. If I have to lag/frame rate stutter around a PC match I don't really give a **** how pretty the grass it.
VEXation Gunn Imperfects Negative-Feedback 114	Posted - 2013.06.09 04:06:00 - [18] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Sponglyboy Squaredoo wrote: There goes Kain. Turning ranting into business LOL +1 If you don't currently have land in PC you should come talk to me or my Eve side, Kane Spero. I think turning Oddelulft into a thunderdome will be fun. We should make sure to leave some space for the Dust schools though. Fight Club Kain we are going to make Oddelulf planet Fight Club
VEXation Gunn Imperfects Negative-Feedback 145	Posted - 2013.06.09 15:55:00 - [19] - Quote steadyhand amarr wrote: shift PC to EvE players that can then contract out to Dust players at fixed prices this way its an EvE who has to talk to us and we can chose when and were to part without to much of it. if EvE units want a standing army for their PC they have to build up their own dust corp. you know like what they said they were going to in the first place. Also maybe not having head in sand leadership and office shangi (Why what is the point england office tax breaks too >.<) might also help. PC needs to be redesigned from scratch and that's really the only way. As for Shanghai office I just think they thought they knew better and that its okay that we pay for a product that is in beta still.
VEXation Gunn Imperfects Negative-Feedback 148	Posted - 2013.06.09 16:04:00 - [20] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: VEXation Gunn wrote: Kain Spero wrote: Sponglyboy Squaredoo wrote: There goes Kain. Turning ranting into business LOL +1 If you don't currently have land in PC you should come talk to me or my Eve side, Kane Spero. I think turning Oddelulft into a thunderdome will be fun. We should make sure to leave some space for the Dust schools though. Fight Club Kain we are going to make Oddelulf planet Fight Club That's just stupid Make it a racetrack No one said it couldn't be. Just trying to come up with something player run to offset how bad PC is

VEXation Gunn Imperfects Negative-Feedback 149	Posted - 2013.06.09 16:17:00 - [21] - Quote As of now we have about 12 top level corps and a few new/noob corps that we have talked about. We would want to fill the rest of the spot with new/mid table corps. Then everyone change to production structure and we just set up fights for fun. If you want to do LAV races do it. If you want to set training matches do it. If you want to go HAM in a fight do it. It's all about overcoming what we all agree is just bad PC design and try to have fun
VEXation Gunn Imperfects Negative-Feedback 150	Posted - 2013.06.09 16:18:00 - [22] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: If this actually goes down, I fking love you guys Bojo and dust uni are welcome on the planet. I know we are going to put impswarm on it and there are other newer corps that we are looking to bring in. if you have suggestions of corps please let me know
VEXation Gunn Imperfects Negative-Feedback 154	Posted - 2013.06.09 16:29:00 - [23] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: VEXation Gunn wrote: As of now we have about 12 top level corps and a few new/noob corps that we have talked about. We would want to fill the rest of the spot with new/mid table corps. Then everyone change to production structure and we just set up fights for fun. If you want to do LAV races do it. If you want to set training matches do it. If you want to go HAM in a fight do it. It's all about overcoming what we all agree is just bad PC design and try to have fun Last but not least, we'll need a way to defend these districts from assholes who want to ruin the fun- but I think getting ringers for unscheduled attacks, and simple security guards for scheduled "attacks" we'll be fine. If someone really thinks its a good idea to mess with NF/Eon/LOI lead Fight Club you would have people fighting over ringer spots to defend your district
VEXation Gunn Imperfects Negative-Feedback 155	Posted - 2013.06.09 16:40:00 - [24] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: HowDidThatTaste wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: VEXation Gunn wrote: As of now we have about 12 top level corps and a few new/noob corps that we have talked about. We would want to fill the rest of the spot with new/mid table corps. Then everyone change to production structure and we just set up fights for fun. If you want to do LAV races do it. If you want to set training matches do it. If you want to go HAM in a fight do it. It's all about overcoming what we all agree is just bad PC design and try to have fun Last but not least, we'll need a way to defend these districts from assholes who want to ruin the fun- but I think getting ringers for unscheduled attacks, and simple security guards for scheduled "attacks" we'll be fine. I'm pretty sure if you want us to be the godfather corp we can enforce any issues that might arise. "You know what I'm talkin about" I liked VEXation Gunn's response to this more- having one corp managing all this stuff just leads to a big power play. I just don't trust anyone, so having 3 or 4 big corps keeping each other in check while managing the smaller ones seems like the best solution. Only 1 thing left: think of a parody name for CONCORD Well we named our anti cronos coalition "Nerds who love boobs". Sadly I don't think ccp will write that into lore. So you can refer us as LOINFEON That said we are setting this us to fight each other not be farmers. So the coalition for all intents and purpose is over when it comes to attacking Cronos. All that's left is trying to make PC fun for people and get good fights.
VEXation Gunn Imperfects Negative-Feedback 159	Posted - 2013.06.09 17:28:00 - [25] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: So, what corps are making up LOINFEON? Looking at the star map, we need the support of (aside from the imperfects) Seraphim Initiative The southern legion What the french Ill omens grupo de asalto chacal and that's still just 41% of PC LOI / Eon / NF I doubt we want to bring in the former cronos since EU lag is terribad and they can't deal with it while apparently. IO is part on eon and is a corp already on list to get a spot.
VEXation Gunn Imperfects Negative-Feedback 162	Posted - 2013.06.09 18:04:00 - [26] - Quote Noc Tempre wrote: I demand a planet for vehicle pilots to roam free in their militia fits to cool down without getting facerolled by prototype infantry! no one says there can't be a infantry battle with a bunch of tankers in milita suits on either side. I mean it would be great to stream that that as we all know tankers can aim so people will be running out of ammo and trying to melee each other.
VEXation Gunn Imperfects Negative-Feedback 162	Posted - 2013.06.09 18:13:00 - [27] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: VEXation Gunn wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: So, what corps are making up LOINFEON? Looking at the star map, we need the support of (aside from the imperfects) Seraphim Initiative The southern legion What the french Ill omens grupo de asalto chacal and that's still just 41% of PC LOI / Eon / NF I doubt we want to bring in the former cronos since EU lag is terribad and they can't deal with it while apparently. IO is part on eon and is a corp already on list to get a spot. What corps are those, exactly? I sortof figured that little bit out. SyN, IO, TP, Not G, Giant, RS, Generals, R spades, Imperfects, I.E., Hellstorm, OH, ML, PHI, RND, (1/2 Rofl corp) Then corps like Impswarm, bojo, dust uni, etc ( newer/mid tier corps)
VEXation Gunn Imperfects Negative-Feedback 164	Posted - 2013.06.09 18:39:00 - [28] - Quote you have to understand that we play PC for fights not farming. This is an attempt to be able to do this on regular basis. when battles are set up it will be 1 fight not taking the actual district. At this point in time I could care less if other alliances want to farm isk or not. That's on ccp for making PC "farm first" by design. We are still looking for more newer/mid tier corps to want in. PS thanks for cronos for being bad at dust and letting us have the planet :-)
VEXation Gunn Imperfects Negative-Feedback 164	Posted - 2013.06.09 18:56:00 - [29] - Quote but I like my PC is a failure thread in GD front page.
VEXation Gunn Imperfects Negative-Feedback 164	Posted - 2013.06.09 18:57:00 - [30] - Quote Knight SoIaire wrote: So what will it be? Just the planet with 24(?) districts, that was owned by Cronos? Or will it be a much larger chunk of Molden Heath? just the 1 planet for now as we still have space open on it

VEXation Gunn Imperfects Negative-Feedback 194	Posted - 2013.06.10 04:10:00 - [31] - Quote J3ff H3rc wrote: I almost gave up on Dust, but the "Fight/Race Playground" sounds like a good way to enjoy a bad game.... And i'm sad that CCP don't say nothing about the whole situation, but when you go to sites like Destructoid, you saw an interview with some VP-Whatever executive proud of the new modes they will introduce and how they are "confident" with their Five Years Life Plan. I just think ccp is oblivious to whats going on
VEXation Gunn Imperfects Negative-Feedback 231	Posted - 2013.06.11 16:57:00 - [32] - Quote Blamejudg3s KEQ wrote: If your getting burned out, blame your corp structure, not the game. Imps didn't burn out. We got bored with fighting because there is no value in it. Its the same damn boring ** over and over. The only reward is more districts and isk. We all have tons of isk and nothing to spend it on. So why punch a clock for it. Also since we took DF hardly anyone has attacked imp districts. So we could have just sat and farmed our districts for isk and fought the occasional battle but fk that lame **. So we gave our districts away so other corps that want in can give it a try. Imps are not going to be apart of farm514 per design. If we aren't going to be fighting for a bit we would rather just give other corps a chance. Imps > hypoctrates
VEXation Gunn Imperfects Negative-Feedback 235	Posted - 2013.06.11 16:58:00 - [33] - Quote Summer-Wolf wrote: It terrifies me that CCP hasnt really said anything regarding this yet. They are on vacation and honestly why would they even care. They have a 5 year plan and meta game for us to play.
VEXation Gunn Imperfects Negative-Feedback 237	Posted - 2013.06.11 17:14:00 - [34] - Quote Summer-Wolf wrote: VEXation Gunn wrote: Summer-Wolf wrote: It terrifies me that CCP hasnt really said anything regarding this yet. They are on vacation and honestly why would they even care. They have a 5 year plan and meta game for us to play. 5 years from now, Ill probably have a nice Titan on Venus... on Destiny :P A ton of imps are going to be playing destiny so we will see you there (and on destiny forums too) all that will be left on dust will be eve fanboys hoping it comes to pc
VEXation Gunn Imperfects Negative-Feedback 244	Posted - 2013.06.11 18:22:00 - [35] - Quote Gregor stormwalker wrote: Kain Spero wrote: Gregor stormwalker wrote: Vrain Matari wrote: The truth is, we don't know what PC is really like. There is structure and strategy built into the rules, but the Genpack is bypassing the intended design and preventing us from having a much more interesting game experience. Without the Genpack local politics would be more important. Without the Genpack corps would stand a better chance of establishing and holding a home base. Without the Genpack diplomatic efforts with corps and alliances distant from your own space would become more important, since pressure on war targets would have to be applied locally. We need a different mechanism for allowing corps to get into PC. And this is a reminder of an old lesson our Devs need to keep in mind: You cannot balance with ISK. Ever. The deterrent to Genpack use was supposed to be cost. That 80 million ISK deterrent was not effective. Once we're coupled to EVE, things will be worse. started a topic on this in feedback/requests remove clone packs for corps with districts there are othere idea out there and would be intrested in everyones views I'd be fine with removing clone packs for corps who own districts, but you need a way to by a 300 clone gen pack and I think move forward with the idea of pressing attacks (have multiple fights on the same day for the same district). I am not sure about the pressing the attack mechanic but im open to it with restrictions maybe limit it to 1 extra attack and only if the attackers still have over 150 clones this would also then encourage attacking with more than minimum loose numbers. with this in place 300 clone starter pack would have there places too, I would really appreciate your thought in this topic on the feedback/requests section as there would be economic ramification that i know little about because clone profits would no longer be used for clone packs it would be for equipping your mercs so would probably have to be lowered buying clones packs should not be restricted what so ever. That said, PC as a general design is bad. I said this 3 months ago and ccp just adjusted it a bit. The design favors groups just sitting on districts and as we said too once everyone fights for a bit people will be content with isk farming. CCP never took into account that the new would wear off and players would realize there isn't much to it. PC is something that no one can win. there is no sense of accomplishment either. We win we get isk. So what that means nothing. Mercs want to be apart of something epic and they want winning and losing of battles and wars to be apart of the bigger picture and its not. There is no great battles or wars to be a part of just who you fight today. Worse even no one in eve cares we have no effect on them and that's the way they want it to be
VEXation Gunn Imperfects Negative-Feedback 245	Posted - 2013.06.11 19:35:00 - [36] - Quote The current design of PC is a failure. Let me say that again PC is a failure. CCP even told us about it month in advance and many of us told them it wasn't going to work. I fully expected PC to be new for about 1 month then slowly decline. The fact that 3 weeks in a Group like cronos that probably fought the most fights realized it wasn't worth it. Then at the same time NF won most of its PC matches and felt even winning wasn't worth the effort. What motivated players to play was to finally get fights against their forums enemies or **** talkers. So ccp mechanics were not the motivation to play just the forums beefs etc. All this shows is ccp is dependent on the meta game for players to play not the game itself. This is why dust is in real trouble.

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