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Rei Shepard
Spectre II
337
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Posted - 2013.06.06 10:04:00 -
[1] - Quote
Mike Poole wrote:So it didn't even take 24 hours for most of of the turbo button TAC users to switch over to Scrambler Rifles huh?
It takes 20 shots before the Scrambler Rifle overheats, at 72 damage a shot and 705 rpm that means you're spitting out about 1440 damage in roughly 1.7 seconds or almost 850 damage a second... for a weapon that costs 12440sp to unlock and 1500 isk a pop.
The advanced assault variant only manages 440 damage per second because it correctly has a lowered damage to account for its max rpm, half the damage for about 12 times the price and 25 times the SP invested.
Are you ****ing kidding me?
So basically what you are saying is that for every 1.7 seconds of firing, you want to run around unable to do didly squat for 5 seconds (this incluces, reloading, meleeing, throwing nades, swapping to a sidearm or running for that matter) meaning you are one big sitting duck?
Ok so lets take those numbers for a moment...and put them in a per minute based dps sheme and you get roughly 11.520 damage dealt in that 1 minute, thats you firing like a scrub then waddling off the heat.
Or i could just grab a AR and deal 14.400 damage in that same timespan with the stock AR and keep mobile and not make myself a gigantic waddling target on the field.
If you with your scrub Turbo controller put out 115.200 dps over a 10 minute game, getting killed allot while overheating it like a boss every 1.7 seconds, the other guy will be putting out 144.000 dps.
Go ahead and use that Turbo Button, makes it easier for me to kill you, that is if you don't kill yourself first. |
Rei Shepard
Spectre II
337
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 13:43:00 -
[2] - Quote
Mike Poole wrote:Rei Shepard wrote:Mike Poole wrote:So it didn't even take 24 hours for most of of the turbo button TAC users to switch over to Scrambler Rifles huh?
It takes 20 shots before the Scrambler Rifle overheats, at 72 damage a shot and 705 rpm that means you're spitting out about 1440 damage in roughly 1.7 seconds or almost 850 damage a second... for a weapon that costs 12440sp to unlock and 1500 isk a pop.
The advanced assault variant only manages 440 damage per second because it correctly has a lowered damage to account for its max rpm, half the damage for about 12 times the price and 25 times the SP invested.
Are you ****ing kidding me? So basically what you are saying is that for every 1.7 seconds of firing, you want to run around unable to do didly squat for 5 seconds (this incluces, reloading, meleeing, throwing nades, swapping to a sidearm or running for that matter) meaning you are one big sitting duck? Ok so lets take those numbers for a moment...and put them in a per minute based dps sheme and you get roughly 11.520 damage dealt in that 1 minute, thats you firing like a scrub then waddling off the heat. Or i could just grab a AR and deal 14.400 damage in that same timespan with the stock AR and keep mobile and not make myself a gigantic waddling target on the field. If you with your scrub Turbo controller put out 115.200 dps over a 10 minute game, getting killed allot while overheating it like a boss every 1.7 seconds, the other guy will be putting out 144.000 dps. Go ahead and use that Turbo Button, makes it easier for me to kill you, that is if you don't kill yourself first. Are you people idiots? I NEVER suggested that people go around overhetaing the gun every time they fire it. It is ENTIRELY possible to fire in bursts without overheating and due to modded controllers and the way the gun builds up heat you can get in far more shots in that burst than people previously expected even if you stop short of the maximum number of shots for safety sake. Then again I think some of you are just ****ing idiots since I counted at least 3 more people trying to argue that all my points are invalid because MANUALLY they weren't able to get anywhere near 20 shots before hitting an overheat while all of my tests are NOT DONE MANUALLY. This is the entire god damn point of this thread, people are NOT manually spamming the button but using modded/turbo controllers or mice and are able to use the weapon in a manner far above how it should have been intended.
The gun overheats at 19-20 rounds with or without a modded controller, so on that point alone your point is invalid already.
The way this gun heat works is you fire, it builds up, there is no way around the buildup, modded controller or not, clicking it faster does not make it build up slower.
My finger manages 19 shots in sub 2 seconds perfectly fine, no need to use a modded controller for this and my brain manages to stop at 18 rounds perfectly fine too.
There is 0 benefit for using a modded controller on this gun.
edit: ill test it out later to see if this gun actually uses the Laser Rifle code for heat build up, i got the eagle eye controller handy to test that out. |
Rei Shepard
Spectre II
337
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 13:49:00 -
[3] - Quote
Mike Poole wrote:Imp Smash wrote:
Fascinating! As we can see - the subject is crying for a Nerf despite the past 3 weeks of careful discussion and feedback concerning the scrambler rifle. He then attempts to obfuscate this by saying there is a bug. Whether there is a bug or not (I plan to test this in one hour) not withstanding - this an attempt to get a Nerf started based on the reasoning that the TAR was OP. only without considering the many drawbacks associated with the SR that TARs simply don't have.
Here's an idea, instead of calling all of this "crying" and THEN going to test it for yourself you switch the order around and test it first like someone with a brain would do. I have empirical evidence backing up my claims combined with numerous posts from others confirming that the mechanics behind the Scrambler Rifle's heat buildup work in a manner that a modded quick succession of shots can have the same heat buildup as a slower succession of fewer shots. It doesn't matter if the Scrambler Rifle is inferior to the TAR, this isn't a matter of Scrambler Rifle vs TAR. This is about a manually fired Scrambler Rifle vs a modded Scrambler Rifle and the modded rifle is capable of pulling off something it shouldn't.
Ive yet to see any of the evidence you so called have, at least spit out the number of how much rounds a modded controller can manage. |
Rei Shepard
Spectre II
337
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 13:51:00 -
[4] - Quote
Mike Poole wrote:Rei Shepard wrote:
The gun overheats at 19-20 rounds with or without a modded controller, so on that point alone your point is invalid already.
The way this gun heat works is you fire, it builds up, there is no way around the buildup, modded controller or not, clicking it faster does not make it build up slower.
My finger manages 19 shots in sub 2 seconds perfectly fine, no need to use a modded controller for this and my brain manages to stop at 18 rounds perfectly fine too.
There is 0 benefit for using a modded controller on this gun.
Tell that to the people that have been trying to tear apart my argument claiming that it overheats between 9-11 shots then because you seem to be the only other person that has managed to hit the 19-20 range. The base fact that we are able to get in 19-20 shots before an overheat while others can barely get in 10 shots pretty clearly shows that the heat buildup is not on a per shot basis but rather time based as people have repeatedly pointed out.
19 rounds is standard with an Amarr Assault suit, don't bother with this gun with any other suit, youll manage 11-14 ish.
Tried it on the Templar Renegade187 who came with no skills & scrambler rifle BPO, horrible gun without the skills in the proto amarr assault suit.
But 19 rounds is what my finger can manage and 18 is where my brain stops counting. |
Rei Shepard
Spectre II
337
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 13:58:00 -
[5] - Quote
Quote:Mike Poole wrote:
Seeing that admittedly no one here can physically match the rpm necessary to hit 19-20 shots per overheat while actually aiming the weapon these adjustments would have NO EFFECT on all of the people spitting all over the idea.
19 rounds felt cramped going up against Tac users who could just blap away until their clip ran out & reload, will have to try the gun tonight.
But for the record
Charge shot, with 2 quick shots behind it = way more effective then just putting 19 rounds downrange.... |
Rei Shepard
Spectre II
337
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 14:00:00 -
[6] - Quote
You messed up your Quotes Mike.
Quote:It's likely that with am Amarr suit and a modded setup you could hit even higher than the 19-20 range.
Ill test it out in the MCC when i get home, if it can be abused it needs to be fixed but the regular amount of shots a normal person can do with it is fine as it is.
Nerfing this gun down to 10 rounds per overheat or something rediculous like that would put the gun in the trashbin |
Rei Shepard
Spectre II
337
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 14:10:00 -
[7] - Quote
Master Jaraiya wrote:Rei Shepard wrote:Quote:Nice to meet you Mr. Bob Munden! Who's that ? According to this nonsense: "My finger manages 19 shots in sub 2 seconds perfectly fine, no need to use a modded controller for this and my brain manages to stop at 18 rounds perfectly fine too." I thought it was you! http://www.bobmunden.com/Feel free to post a video of this amazing feat if you can indeed shoot 19 - 20 shots in under 2 seconds.
Meh i actually meant 19 rounds before it overheats if i press it as fast as i can, the under 2 seconds got carried with me from the previous post i made, error on my part.
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Rei Shepard
Spectre II
337
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Posted - 2013.06.06 16:05:00 -
[8] - Quote
Quote:Well, the overheat is supposed to limit the number of shots that can be fired in short order, that way balancing the weapon. The fact that shooting faster allows for almost twice the amount of bullets, instead of just overheating equally faster bothers me for it's counterintuitiveness alone. It also weakens the limiting effect that the heat mechanic is supposed to have on weapon balance.
Ive tested the Imperial Scrambler rifle + Amarr Assault Suit with the Eagle Eye converter (witch has a Turbo Button function)
Stock with just finger clicking the gun overheats at 19 clicks
Eagle Ete Converter the gun overheats at 22 clicks
Correct me if i am wrong but 22 is not the double of 19.
The gun fires at its max Rof witch is lower then the what the TAC was....
If i could have put out 38 rounds with this then yes the gun would be OP, but its 3 rounds at best with the Amarr suit bonus.
Without it its gonna be a whole lot less, lemme try that after i get back home, gotta go now.
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Rei Shepard
Spectre II
337
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 20:30:00 -
[9] - Quote
The gun is fine, even a modded controller user can only squeeze out MAX 3 shots, if he has the Amaar Assault suit + skills, if he doesnt its MAX 1 extra shot.
So for a Caldari Logi to use it with say a modded controllers yields him 1 extra round in the chamber before it overheats and its already overheating at around 14 rounds, he will just use a Duvolle AR and be done with it.
Not really somethig i call OP, i rather have them fix FPS & Aiming first so i can get back to playing this game because right now its Dust 514: MCC Uprising for me.
KBM + FPS fixes is what i need, not some nerf crusades from one gun to another. |
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