DUST Search - The solution to the LAV/murdertaxi problem.

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:

Why no free tanks and dropship starter fits? same reason why no free specialized suits (assaults, logis, sentinels, scouts), or other basic frames in the infantry starter fits. Medium basic frame dropsuit starter fits are only a starting point, just like LAVs are just a starting point.

"If you want to use vehicles outside of academy, then buy them" That isn't really logical reasoning, its just your opinion of how things should be. It doesn't explain why things should be that way, or why LAVs shouldn't be free.
That BS can just as easily apply to infantry starter fits also, "If you want to use dropsuits and infantry gear outside of academy, then buy them". If starter LAVs shouldn't be free after the academy, neither should infantry fits.

I'm done arguing with you now, I'm starting to think you're trolling; seriously, you're the one who's complaining to change the game, yet anyone anyone who doesn't agree with you should STFU? lol. You must be trolling.

By the power invested in me by my obscene amount of likes, I judge myself the winner of this argument Pirate


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Schalac 17 Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 243	Posted - 2013.06.05 23:34:00 - [1] - Quote Charge ISK for LAVs. Once you get out of academy, all vehicles should cost ISK. They charge for MLT tanks so why are MLT LAVs still free in the game? Get'em outta here. Free suits and whatever BPOs you have is all that should be ISK free. It is silly that a vehicle would just be given to someone with no repercussions in the EVE universe. And if someone brings up noobships, well that is a different game where you need a ship. In Dust drop suits are the IBIS, Impairor, Velator and Reaper. Sniper, Medic, Assault and AV. No need for a free LAV.
Schalac 17 Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 243	Posted - 2013.06.05 23:43:00 - [2] - Quote Obodiah Garro wrote: But how much isk is enough? mlt lav should be used to ferry troops quickly to a destination. Through bad game design they are capable of a lot more, the devs need to reign them in either by letting them be easily destroyed through small arms fire or making their impact damage so absurbingly small that it would take a top speed run along the roads to actually kill a troop. Also I got the elite pack, ill be damned if I stand for being charged to use a gift I got for investing in this ****. The pack LAV was purchased for real money to be used infinitely. So it falls under my BPO clause. But with that LAV you need to fit a gun to it or you can't deploy it, so you are already spending ISK on it. Also, free MLT LAVs already die really fast to my AV grenades, so they don't need a nerf on that end. But the fact that they can be spawned infinitely at no cost is what needs to stop.
Schalac 17 Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 243	Posted - 2013.06.06 00:04:00 - [3] - Quote XiBravo wrote: Free LAVs are not the problem. It's the instant death when grazed at any speed compounded by the HP/rep rate/speed of these lavs further imbalanced by the buggy av nades that may or may not decide to deal damage and the nano hive or supply depo that may or may not want to give you more of them. I have personally survived a few LAV hits. They must not of been going fast enough to kill me with impact, but they died all the same when I threw my AV nades at them. The fact that they are free is the problem. When you add an ISK penalty to a gameplay option people are less likely to throw it away. Those that still wish to use LAVs as a way to get around are not punished because you can now recall vehicles. That is good gameplay. But if you wish to use your LAV to charge into a squad, know that they might be packing AV and be prepared to lose your ISK bought LAV.
Schalac 17 Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 244	Posted - 2013.06.06 00:32:00 - [4] - Quote Kane Fyea wrote: I know how to fix this problem..... It's called.... ANTI VEHICLE GASPS Here is the problem. You run out of AV, while free LAVs keep spawning at no cost. Eventually even supply depots stop giving you ammo to kill the swarms of LAVs that are being spawned.
Schalac 17 Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 244	Posted - 2013.06.06 01:04:00 - [5] - Quote DS 10 wrote: Drop LAV HP. That's all that needs to happen. 1 advanced AV or higher should one hit kill militia LAVs. One Proto AV should take out LLAVs. Keep the one hit bumper bash. If you don't like getting run over, use AV. That way LAVs are still decent but they have a counter that actually works. Who +1 you for this post? Fanboi much? Now tell me, what incentive does a person using a free LAV while wearing a free suit have to not just spawn another one and do the same thing if they are set on just running people over? ADV. and Proto FG, AV nades and swarms do pretty much OHK a MLT LAV. That is not the point. The point is that it has no drawback for the person that spawned it. LLAVs cost ISK to fit and deploy. Yes, I hate getting run over by them, at the same time I love killing or hacking them because of it. And guess what, it is very rare that you see 5 LLAVs all murdertaxi in the same match. Why? Because they cost ISK, and not just a small amount, one loss will put you negative for the match most times. While with the free MLT LAVs they are everywhere, in every map in every game mode. Charge ISK and I feel this trend will die off quick. You can still use your LAV to get around. You just have to realize that if you get it blown up, you lose ISK for doing so. Why would that be a bad thing?
Schalac 17 Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 244	Posted - 2013.06.06 01:07:00 - [6] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Schalac 17 wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: I know how to fix this problem..... It's called.... ANTI VEHICLE GASPS Here is the problem. You run out of AV, while free LAVs keep spawning at no cost. Eventually even supply depots stop giving you ammo to kill the swarms of LAVs that are being spawned. Uh.................................................................................................. Press circle, select the same suit. Problem solved. /your opinion Unless it is a glitch I am pretty sure you lose the suit when you do this.
Schalac 17 Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 245	Posted - 2013.06.06 01:18:00 - [7] - Quote Obodiah Garro wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: DS 10 wrote: Drop LAV HP. That's all that needs to happen. 1 advanced AV or higher should one hit kill militia LAVs. One Proto AV should take out LLAVs. Keep the one hit bumper bash. If you don't like getting run over, use AV. That way LAVs are still decent but they have a counter that actually works. So why should one PRO AV grenade destroy a Logi LAV that has over 2000 base HP? One of my Limbus fits have 3300 armor. Why should one grenade be able to blow that up? because its a prototype anti vehicle grenade. a crappy IED can blow a Humvee apart and waste a squad of troops, why wouldn't a futuristic purpose weapon take out its counter part? As a person that was in Afghanistan for a year doing route clearance, which is looking for IEDs for those that don't know. There are no "crappy IEDs", all of them are serious weapons. Some of them are so good that they are almost military grade explosives brewed in mud huts. And they all don't "waste a squad of troops". What the IED/MINE does is stops you with casualties so they can then mount an attack. Unless it is a really big pack, then it is bad. And almost all of those are pure military grade munitions set up with a charge to explode. Also a HMMWV is a flat bottom vehicle, which allows more of the blast force to spread under the vehicle causing greater damage. We have countered that. It is also why we don't use tanks, or HMMWVs or any other flat bottom vehicle, anymore for such operations. Your comparison is weak because of the points I just posted.
Schalac 17 Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 245	Posted - 2013.06.06 01:26:00 - [8] - Quote XiBravo wrote: Their should be no OHK LAV Vs. Dropsuit either . The Solution Enemy LAV damage is replaced with the current friendly LAV damage (No damage). Why? I feel that my solution is the best way to tackle this problem. Charge ISK for the LAVs once you get out of academy. Murdertaxi rate in games will drop substantially.
Schalac 17 Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 245	Posted - 2013.06.06 01:31:00 - [9] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Schalac 17 wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Schalac 17 wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: I know how to fix this problem..... It's called.... ANTI VEHICLE GASPS Here is the problem. You run out of AV, while free LAVs keep spawning at no cost. Eventually even supply depots stop giving you ammo to kill the swarms of LAVs that are being spawned. Uh.................................................................................................. Press circle, select the same suit. Problem solved. /your opinion Unless it is a glitch I am pretty sure you lose the suit when you do this. ................................................................. you're kidding................................................... When I would play heavy I would do this to replenish armor and it cost me a suit. Granted the last time I did this was in chromo and haven't tried it in uprising because I specced out of heavy. Since uprising I have only used the supply depot to change suits. So no I'm not kidding.
Schalac 17 Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 246	Posted - 2013.06.06 01:43:00 - [10] - Quote XiBravo wrote: Schalac 17 wrote: XiBravo wrote: Their should be no OHK LAV Vs. Dropsuit either . The Solution Enemy LAV damage is replaced with the current friendly LAV damage (No damage). Why? I feel that my solution is the best way to tackle this problem. Charge ISK for the LAVs once you get out of academy. Murdertaxi rate in games will drop substantially. You must be new. Isk means nothing to most players. Well that is only because we can't keep new players due to how messed up this game is. And if ISK really means nothing, then charge 50k ISK for every MLT LAV. Can be killed with 1-2 AV grenades and we will see how much ISK matters to "most people". I stand by what I say.

Schalac 17 Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 248	Posted - 2013.06.06 03:38:00 - [11] - Quote Skihids wrote: Look, the LAV is the one weapon you can just walk away from. You don't have to blow it up. All you have to do is stroll behind one of those spacecrete blocks that line the sidewalks and you can thumb your nose at me all day. If you hear a LAV driving around just get out of the street. Problem solved. If you are out in the fields just walk up a hill high enough to slow a LAV down enough not to hurt you. This is the post of a person that abuses free LAVs.
Schalac 17 Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 249	Posted - 2013.06.06 03:51:00 - [12] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Schalac 17 wrote: Skihids wrote: Look, the LAV is the one weapon you can just walk away from. You don't have to blow it up. All you have to do is stroll behind one of those spacecrete blocks that line the sidewalks and you can thumb your nose at me all day. If you hear a LAV driving around just get out of the street. Problem solved. If you are out in the fields just walk up a hill high enough to slow a LAV down enough not to hurt you. This is the post of a person that abuses free LAVs. INVALID ARGUMENT, attack the logic, not the person. Even if you are right about him "abusing" free LAVs, that does not prove his argument is wrong. Where is the logic in being able to use the LAV without an ISK penalty for deploying it? All his post is doing is supporting my claim that it needs an ISK penalty. Skihids wrote: *Look, the LAV is the one weapon you can just walk away from.* Why should you be able to deploy an asset that causes harm to the enemy, outside of the basic suits? There is no logic in that. That is what I am attacking. Not the logic, but the lack of it, for allowing free LAVs. There is no reason that LAVs shouldn't cost ISK to deploy. Give me one good reason why LAVs should be free. You can't, because murdertaxi isn't a good reason.
Schalac 17 Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 249	Posted - 2013.06.06 04:16:00 - [13] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Since you asked for logic to defend the presence of free LAVs: Free LAVs give prospective vehicle users a starting point to test out vehicles to know if they like them or not. Then where are the free tanks and dropships? If they are truly new, I said that you would get free LAVs in academy, WHERE NEW PLAYERS PLAY. Once you leave academy you lose the free LAV. KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Free LAVs provides much needed free transportation, which is necessary given the size of the maps. Why should ease of movement be a free service? You want to get there quicker, buy an LAV and use it. KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Infantry has 4 free starter fits that cost no ISK to deploy to represent different infantry playstyles. Vehicles and their playstyles are just as part of the game as infantry, so its only fair that at least one kind of vehicle would be free. I refer you to my first counter to your logic. If you want to use vehicles outside of academy, then buy them. KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: There are also much better solutions to dealing with the perceived abuse of LAVs. Increase the momentum needed to roadkill someone, and make LAVs take damage from infantry impact. No, actually I think mine is the best way to counter it. If you want to use it buy it, if not then STFU.
Schalac 17 Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 254	Posted - 2013.06.06 21:24:00 - [14] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Why no free tanks and dropship starter fits? same reason why no free specialized suits (assaults, logis, sentinels, scouts), or other basic frames in the infantry starter fits. Medium basic frame dropsuit starter fits are only a starting point, just like LAVs are just a starting point. "If you want to use vehicles outside of academy, then buy them" That isn't really logical reasoning, its just your opinion of how things should be. It doesn't explain why things should be that way, or why LAVs shouldn't be free. That BS can just as easily apply to infantry starter fits also, "If you want to use dropsuits and infantry gear outside of academy, then buy them". If starter LAVs shouldn't be free after the academy, neither should infantry fits. I'm done arguing with you now, I'm starting to think you're trolling; seriously, you're the one who's complaining to change the game, yet anyone anyone who doesn't agree with you should STFU? lol. You must be trolling. By the power invested in me by my obscene amount of likes, I judge myself the winner of this argument This is another post of a free LAV abuser. Suits are needed in this game. Vehicles are a luxury. If you want that luxury you should have to purchase it with ISK. What are you afraid of? The fact that you will lose the ability to spawn LAV after LAV and get them blown up at no cost to you? You are done arguing with me because you lost the argument. Your points are weak, you have faulty logic and the only thing you can do is try to twist my words into something that they are not. And it doesn't matter how many likes you got because in this thread I am getting more than you are with your faulty logic. So hurry up and have a legion drones +1 your bad ideas.
Schalac 17 Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 255	Posted - 2013.06.07 10:21:00 - [15] - Quote Wolfgang Thor wrote: They could allow dropsuits to activate inertial dampeners all the time with cooldown). Thus allowing protection from LAV when you see it coming, and still allow taxi kills when victim is unprepared or unable to escape before cooldown is ready. would make sense that dampener could be used this way. How would you handle melee attacks while the dampener is on?
Schalac 17 Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 256	Posted - 2013.06.09 02:03:00 - [16] - Quote Back into the limelight.
Schalac 17 Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 258	Posted - 2013.06.09 04:11:00 - [17] - Quote Duran Lex wrote: The solution to paper : scissors. You are welcome. When scissors cost ISK and paper is free, paper is OP.
Schalac 17 Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 258	Posted - 2013.06.09 22:26:00 - [18] - Quote XiBravo wrote: Schalac 17 wrote: Duran Lex wrote: The solution to paper : scissors. You are welcome. When scissors cost ISK and paper is free, paper is OP. ^ war on mlt gear. So pointless. It's the roadkills that are the problem. And the fact that the MLT LAV is free is what is causing the roadkill problem. Lack of loss for the destruction of an asset IS THE PROBLEM. Add loss to the equation and everything else will work itself out.
Schalac 17 Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 258	Posted - 2013.06.10 19:21:00 - [19] - Quote Bump
Schalac 17 Dedicated Individuals Committed to Killing 258	Posted - 2013.06.10 23:47:00 - [20] - Quote Jammer Jalapeno wrote: Schalac 17 wrote: Charge ISK for LAVs. Once you get out of academy, all vehicles should cost ISK. They charge for MLT tanks so why are MLT LAVs still free in the game? Get'em outta here. Free suits and whatever BPOs you have is all that should be ISK free. It is silly that a vehicle would just be given to someone with no repercussions in the EVE universe. And if someone brings up noobships, well that is a different game where you need a ship. In Dust drop suits are the IBIS, Impairor, Velator and Reaper. Sniper, Medic, Assault and AV. No need for a free LAV. Boo Hoo Get some AV grenades...free 90 points / LAV Plus an additional 50 for every passenger How about you pay ISK for your LAV instead.

Schalac 17 Dedicated Individuals Committed to Killing 260	Posted - 2013.06.11 20:12:00 - [21] - Quote Esper Shadows wrote: Schalac 17 wrote: Duran Lex wrote: The solution to paper : scissors. You are welcome. When scissors cost ISK and paper is free, paper is OP. BPO militia anti-armor suit can 2-shot BPO militia LAVs easily. Both are free. So, yes you too can use free $hit to blow up free $hit. Death taxis have obvious weaknesses, but instead of spawning with AV to match the LAV you're up against, you come to the forums and whine to CCP for a nerf. Starting to think it might be better if CCP didn't listen to players. Sheesh. Well then let me change fittings on the fly without having to go to a supply depot. Because you can call in an LAV at anytime and recall it at anytime, I should be able to do the same for suits.