DUST Search - Gaining SP

Asmodeus Reinhart wrote:

It's a shooter. This is not eve. Any comparisons involving Eve's mind numbing skill vs time mechanics are irrelevant. If it took you 7 years to unlock prestige 1 in COD no one would play it. Time invested compared to the ability to use what I want is excruciating. While were on the subject - why have such a gear related spread anyway? Narrow the gap between militia and proto. Why should anyone be indestructible in a game because the played it for "X" months and not because they are actually good? It's BS logic at best and is completely balanced out of every other FPS.

unfortunately those who created it lack the fundamental understanding shooters are not played in this manner. This isn't revolutionary. It's broken. I'm sitting on the cap and its Sunday. Why even turn it on for the next couple days? Nothing to work for. Maybe a couple hundred SP per match? As if the regular few thousand wasn't insulting enough?

For that matter I don't really gain much for playing it at all. I'm served almost as well just letting my character sit and collect unemployment SP while everyone else is hard at work. I know how the sticks and buttons work. I know what I could do if I had the stuff unlocked I want. Why play at all?

Just wait a few months until I can hop on and buy it all?

This is lazy garbage at best. Combine that with the cap and its like encouraging people not to play. Can't even grind it out. I'm not building an empire. I just want a few guns and a suit or two. Jesus H...


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George Moros Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2013.06.07 20:01:00 - [1] - Quote Karnage Civire wrote: Can someone please explain the SP system to me? I understand you gain SP every few seconds and all that, but is there a way to gain SP faster? I only get (MAX) 6k SP per game, and certain skills cost millions of SP, so how can we logically be able to gain that much SP in a time frame that won't make us sick of the game? Short answer: it will take (literally) years for your character to be really perfect at any one specific role. Long answer: Although I'm a complete noob at DUST and almost-complete noob at online shooters, I'm a 5-year EVE veteran. As you may know, EVE uses similar skill system. Main difference is that in EVE there is no "active" SP gain, only passive. Although, amount of SP/day you gain in EVE is roughly double that of DUST (with proper attributes/implants), you are also looking at years of training just to specialize in, say, Gallente subcapital ships. And yes, I know it looks kinda overwhelming when you consider all those skills you would like to have trained (at level 5, of course ;) ) and the amount of SP you have to gather to get there. However, consider also this: - all those millions of SP are no guarantee of winning a battle (as every EVE vet will tell you, it's 25% SP, 25% fit, and 50% player skill). - if your 50M SP opponent (and there will be such opponents in the future) has 20 million SP invested in light weapons but is currently using a heavy weapon, that means 20M SP less to worry about. - training skills from level 4 to 5 takes insane amounts of SP (and time) and usually has very little difference in gameplay performance, Unless level 5 is a prerequisite for something else, it really doesn't make much sense to invest all those SP for lvl 5, unless you've come to the point that you've trained everything else you need to 4. DUST copies EVE in the sense that this game will probably never be "instant gratification" type of game. It takes time to get to certain things in EVE, and DUST looks very similar in that regard. DUST also copies EVE in the regard of teamplay importance. No matter how good you are, you'll never do anything important in this game all by yourself. In conclusion, be prepared to take thing slow, and one at a time, or you'll be disappointed and quit. EVE universe was made from day one to emphasize team gameplay and social networks, not the amount of SP and price tags of your gear.
George Moros Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 3	Posted - 2013.06.10 07:57:00 - [2] - Quote Asmodeus Reinhart wrote: It's a shooter. This is not eve. Any comparisons involving Eve's mind numbing skill vs time mechanics are irrelevant. If it took you 7 years to unlock prestige 1 in COD no one would play it. Time invested compared to the ability to use what I want is excruciating. While were on the subject - why have such a gear related spread anyway? Narrow the gap between militia and proto. Why should anyone be indestructible in a game because the played it for "X" months and not because they are actually good? It's BS logic at best and is completely balanced out of every other FPS. unfortunately those who created it lack the fundamental understanding shooters are not played in this manner. This isn't revolutionary. It's broken. I'm sitting on the cap and its Sunday. Why even turn it on for the next couple days? Nothing to work for. Maybe a couple hundred SP per match? As if the regular few thousand wasn't insulting enough? For that matter I don't really gain much for playing it at all. I'm served almost as well just letting my character sit and collect unemployment SP while everyone else is hard at work. I know how the sticks and buttons work. I know what I could do if I had the stuff unlocked I want. Why play at all? Just wait a few months until I can hop on and buy it all? This is lazy garbage at best. Combine that with the cap and its like encouraging people not to play. Can't even grind it out. I'm not building an empire. I just want a few guns and a suit or two. Jesus H... Saying that DUST is not EVE would be like saying NASCAR is not Formula 1. Sure it isn't, but you can't say that it's because NASCAR involves driving in reverse and the goal is to pass the finish line last. Some basic principles should apply to both games since they belong not only to the same lore but also (to some extent) the same gaming environment. I'm certain that some people don't like the idea of having to wait for years to unlock certain things in a game, but some obviously don't have a problem with it (EVE players). I certainly don't mind, but since I'm a EVE veteran it's safe to say that it's because I'm already "broken" for that game concept. On the other hand, most of the online shooter community is not accustomed to such gaming mechanics, but IMHO that's only one more reason to try DUST. It really is something new in the online shooter market. Of course, there's no guarantee you'll like the concept, but then again, there's no guarantee that every COD or BF player will like (for instance) ARMA. Not every game is for everybody. EVE certainly isn't, so I don't see why DUST should be. CCP has a reputation of not being "just another gaming company", and with pretty good reason. They never had the approach of trying to appeal to the masses, but are really trying to create something unique and special. And, of course CCP is paying the price for it. EVE online will (probably) never be played by millions, but the people who do play it will continue playing it until Tranquility turns to dust (pun not intended). I suspect DUST will have a similar fate. It probably will get better and better over time, but it will never be a type of shooter that everyone will want to play.
George Moros Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 4	Posted - 2013.06.11 05:24:00 - [3] - Quote Asmodeus Reinhart wrote: I hear you. If the goal is to build a shooter that only appeals to people who are already broken in on an EVE time scale then the game is exactly that. The link between the games is weak at best however. I just don't see the need to adhere to that same mechanic down here on the ground in Dust. I just think building a game for a very narrow audience is illogical if you would like to be successful and profitable as a company. Oh, the EVE-DUST link currently is weak, no argument there. But it will get stronger and stronger. DUST will eventually get to the point where it will have one core element that makes EVE such a great game - player driven economy. Linked with EVE's, of course. Maybe this doesn't sounds like a big deal, but beleive me, when even something as trivial as buying and selling ** on the market becomes a form of PvP that can make you rich and the other guy lose a fortune - it will become a big deal. Now, of course, you may say that CCP released a half-finished product because ail those features concerning EVE-DUST link aren't in the game, but you simply have to cut them some slack in that recpect. They are truly taking the unbeaten path with this, and rushing it could have really devastating consequences on both games. And finally, as for CCP not being a profitable company... interestingly enough, CCP manages to function (and grow) just fine for over 10 years, with subscription numbers that would in some other companies be viewed as utter disaster and complete failure. How they do it? I have no idea. But it seems to work. Quote: I obviously play Dust. I'm obviously used to other quicker forms of fps. And this isn't one big QQ post. I just think something needs to be done to rectify this so the game is more approachable for the average player or the game will not last long enough to be what it could be. If we have to use the infernal EVE mechanics then the training grounds need to be expanded. 1M SP with a hand crafted cap system in place. No tier 3 racial suits. /assault/logi. No proto. Everyone is stuck at max tier 3 weapons. No prof skills. Cap stays on until you leave the academy. When you leave the academy you start gaining SP as usual again. And your SP goes back into your bank in a full respec so when you start the actual game you can fix your errors in SP expenditure right there from what you learned fighting in the academy. I absolutely agree on several points here. The game is currently confusing in some elements, even for me. Academy should be a place where you can actually learn ** about the game (and it's lore), not just a place where you won't get raped by vets. The game horribly needs a map where I can (if nothing else) spawn solo and just run, shoot at wooden dummies and get the feel of the weapon/equipment I'm using before I get to the battlefield and embarrass myself because I have a remote explosive fitted, but no clue how it works. As for the starting SP and limits, your ideas seem fine, but there's one other thing... in EVE it's possible to have (comparably) very low SP and still be useful in combat with your much higher SP fleetmates. DUST should have a similar mechanic (don't ask me how, I have no idea).