DUST Search - [Feedback]Laser Rifle

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:

OP pretty much summed up all my sentiments regarding the current laser rifle. I really don't understand how CCP don't notice that they overnerfed something, seriously how did they still think it was still a decent weapon? Did they actually try it for more than 5 minutes after the rebalancing? What possible excuse scenario could justify this complete failure in weapon balancing? I remember Wolfman in IRC talking about the adjustments he made to the laser rifle and saying how he uses it and still finds it a good weapon; what a joke that was. Seriously, what genius thought of adding the obstructive ironsight to a long range weapon? How can that possibly ever be a good idea?

CCP is so inept when it comes to balance that it just pisses me off. It feels like no weapon, vehicle, dropsuit, playstyle, or whatever will ever be safe, even when something is at a great point in balance, they will just decide to ruin it. Things that are overpowered get nerfed to the point that they just become useless, and even things that aren't OP still get nerfed.

Uprising is a massive step back for balance. They broke the laser so its just useless, they broke the HMG so now its only useful for camping in small spaces (non-fun playstyle), the mass driver had strengths and weaknesses that all together made it feel like it was balanced with the AR but they ruined that weapon as well.

Feedback about balance really just feels like a hopeless lost cause, what's the point in putting on the work in providing feedback if its just going to be ruined few months later.

CCP should just remove the mss driver, laser, any any other cool unconventional weapons from the game because they will never be allowed to actually be more than mediocre compared to the ARs. I wasn't trying to make a rant, but thinking about this just pisses me off.

Back on topic... at the very least, the laser rifle needs to loose the ironsight and get the camera sight back, or a scope. Its a complete pain just to track targets because it makes the beam impossible to see. Don't expect any action until maybe a year from now, and it will still suck; the breach assault rifle after the nerf had less DPS, less magazine, less range, and was just generally useless compared to the regular AR, and even after the buff in Uprising it still has no real advantage or purpose. Abandon hope.

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matsumoto yuichi san SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 3	Posted - 2013.06.04 02:07:00 - [1] - Quote This thread is indended to serve as a more collected location for the state of the laser rifle as it is seen by the community at this time, I will start by saying that the viziam last build was too good, and deserved the damage reduction, and the remaining lasers were generally OK, with their primary apparent power being the primary play in ambush, those maps forcing engagement at 70m and the SS skill. this build they overheat much faster and do huge feedback damage this yields them being serviceable only on amarr assault suits, i think they should be at least usable on the others as it stands they really arent. This is minor though. Major issue is the irons and the comarison to the TAR. both these weapons are long range weapons and make the user want to engage at distance, however the TAR does superior damage, and has superior range, AND gets the benefit of simply being a variation of another weapon. this is compounded by the absolutely attrocious irons on the LR, the combination of the actual irons and the terrible blue fuzz from firing makes ADS a practically useless endevour, (amplified by a lot of dark areas on the map + black suits already having poor contrast) altogether i'd like to use the laser but i really can't even when the maps would allow it (half the time the maps being so focsused on outposts makes their range envelope even worse than the tar since being too close loses damage, and getting closer gains for the TAR. side note you practically need damage mods to have a hope of killing someone before they get to cover, and even then only just before you overheat and almsot kill yourself (amarr assault lvl 5 armor and shield 5%/lvl it does fully half you health from a viziam) before tank of course.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 4853	Posted - 2013.06.04 02:08:00 - [2] - Quote I endorse Feedback in this thread. Please put some effort in it please.
Full Metal Kitten Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 675	Posted - 2013.06.04 02:21:00 - [3] - Quote The Chromosome sights allowed me to track my target better. I could see where they were moving. The new sights obfuscate my view too much. ADS feels too slow. Since this weapon cannot hipfire and reliably apply constant damage would like to see ADS speed dialed up a bit. Damage feels ok as long as I can stay on target.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 4182	Posted - 2013.06.04 03:02:00 - [4] - Quote OP pretty much summed up all my sentiments regarding the current laser rifle. I really don't understand how CCP don't notice that they overnerfed something, seriously how did they still think it was still a decent weapon? Did they actually try it for more than 5 minutes after the rebalancing? What possible excuse scenario could justify this complete failure in weapon balancing? I remember Wolfman in IRC talking about the adjustments he made to the laser rifle and saying how he uses it and still finds it a good weapon; what a joke that was. Seriously, what genius thought of adding the obstructive ironsight to a long range weapon? How can that possibly ever be a good idea? CCP is so inept when it comes to balance that it just pisses me off. It feels like no weapon, vehicle, dropsuit, playstyle, or whatever will ever be safe, even when something is at a great point in balance, they will just decide to ruin it. Things that are overpowered get nerfed to the point that they just become useless, and even things that aren't OP still get nerfed. Uprising is a massive step back for balance. They broke the laser so its just useless, they broke the HMG so now its only useful for camping in small spaces (non-fun playstyle), the mass driver had strengths and weaknesses that all together made it feel like it was balanced with the AR but they ruined that weapon as well. Feedback about balance really just feels like a hopeless lost cause, what's the point in putting on the work in providing feedback if its just going to be ruined few months later. CCP should just remove the mss driver, laser, any any other cool unconventional weapons from the game because they will never be allowed to actually be more than mediocre compared to the ARs. Back on topic... at the very least, the laser rifle needs to loose the ironsight and get the camera sight back, or a scope. Its a complete pain just to track targets because it makes the beam impossible to see. Don't expect any action until maybe a year from now, and it will still suck; the breach assault rifle after the nerf had less DPS, less magazine, less range, and was just generally useless compared to the regular AR, and even after the buff in Uprising it still has no real advantage or purpose. Abandon hope.
Templar Renegade178 Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2013.06.04 03:14:00 - [5] - Quote For the Templar I actually skilled into lasers, for the simple fact I wouldn't do it on my normal character. Overall I really do have a good time with this weapon. I skilled up to L3 proficiency. Sustains: - Keep it fun. Improve: - Your dead if the person you are trying to take out is within 25m and is coming at you. - Every other long range weapon outranges it, the TAC and Sniper. There needs to be an answer to these. - The iron sights need to go. If you want to use more then one version, optics would be good for long range, and go back to the old viewing system for non long range versions. - Needs to be more variety, this goes hand in hand with the points right above, longer range, less damage, shorter range, more damage ect ect. Bottom line to me there is no reason for someone to use this weapon outside the fact they personally like it, the TAC outdoes it in every manner. I agree that the nerf hammer was needed, but they used a nerf sludge hammer.
WyrmHero1945 SyNergy Gaming EoN. 359	Posted - 2013.06.04 03:20:00 - [6] - Quote The weapon needs at least 100m optimal to be useful once again. Firing from rooftops was a tactic that I miss, and it's not longer possible thanks to the low range.
XXfootnoteXX DUST University Ivy League 329	Posted - 2013.06.04 03:23:00 - [7] - Quote WyrmHero1945 wrote: The weapon needs at least 100m optimal to be useful once again. Firing from rooftops was a tactic that I miss, and it's not longer possible thanks to the low range. My thoughts on this is to have two versions. One for closer combat, so that way you dont die when someone is within 25m. One for longer combat, the Amarr's answer to the sniper rifle.
matsumoto yuichi san SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 4	Posted - 2013.06.04 03:26:00 - [8] - Quote good so far, keep it going :)
Garth Mandra The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION 16	Posted - 2013.06.04 04:20:00 - [9] - Quote I agree with what has been said here. Remove the iron sight! Once that is done we can see how it performs. I'd personally hope for an fix to the ADS sluggishness, tracking moving targets is really tricky this build. I have skilled into the Visiam and I suspect that if I could aim the damn thing it would be fairly balanced. The loss of damage from not being able to see/aim at, let alone track your target, is what makes this weapon useless. I would like to see more range but that could just be me wanting my favourite weapon buffed.
Jenova's Witness The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 137	Posted - 2013.06.04 04:30:00 - [10] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: OP pretty much summed up all my sentiments regarding the current laser rifle. I really don't understand how CCP don't notice that they overnerfed something, seriously how did they still think it was still a decent weapon? Did they actually try it for more than 5 minutes after the rebalancing? What possible excuse scenario could justify this complete failure in weapon balancing? I remember Wolfman in IRC talking about the adjustments he made to the laser rifle and saying how he uses it and still finds it a good weapon; what a joke that was. Seriously, what genius thought of adding the obstructive ironsight to a long range weapon? How can that possibly ever be a good idea? CCP is so inept when it comes to balance that it just pisses me off. It feels like no weapon, vehicle, dropsuit, playstyle, or whatever will ever be safe, even when something is at a great point in balance, they will just decide to ruin it. Things that are overpowered get nerfed to the point that they just become useless, and even things that aren't OP still get nerfed. Uprising is a massive step back for balance. They broke the laser so its just useless, they broke the HMG so now its only useful for camping in small spaces (non-fun playstyle), the mass driver had strengths and weaknesses that all together made it feel like it was balanced with the AR but they ruined that weapon as well. Feedback about balance really just feels like a hopeless lost cause, what's the point in putting on the work in providing feedback if its just going to be ruined few months later. CCP should just remove the mss driver, laser, any any other cool unconventional weapons from the game because they will never be allowed to actually be more than mediocre compared to the ARs. I wasn't trying to make a rant, but thinking about this just pisses me off. Back on topic... at the very least, the laser rifle needs to loose the ironsight and get the camera sight back, or a scope. Its a complete pain just to track targets because it makes the beam impossible to see. Don't expect any action until maybe a year from now, and it will still suck; the breach assault rifle after the nerf had less DPS, less magazine, less range, and was just generally useless compared to the regular AR, and even after the buff in Uprising it still has no real advantage or purpose. Abandon hope. It's obvious they don't test weapons after they nerf them. I would like to see a dev actually try to use the laser, HMG, MD and go up against an AR.

WyrmHero1945 SyNergy Gaming EoN. 361	Posted - 2013.06.04 04:32:00 - [11] - Quote XXfootnoteXX wrote: WyrmHero1945 wrote: The weapon needs at least 100m optimal to be useful once again. Firing from rooftops was a tactic that I miss, and it's not longer possible thanks to the low range. My thoughts on this is to have two versions. One for closer combat, so that way you dont die when someone is within 25m. One for longer combat, the Amarr's answer to the sniper rifle. Mid range-CQC is pulse laser zone and we already have those, the Scrambler Rifles. The LR is meant for mid-long range, snipers being VERY long range weapons. LR goes in the beam lasers category. These in EVE are categorized as long range weapons, with artillery and railguns. They have slightly less range than railguns, so an Amarr sniper rifle should be interesting...Caldari Rail Rifle should have more range than LR.
Talos Alomar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 874	Posted - 2013.06.04 04:42:00 - [12] - Quote Either the rage needs to get brought out 20 m or the LR needs to do much more damage up close. It's current range is useless and seems to be entirely reliant on the target being unable to take two steps forward or back. I'm thinking that since the scrambler rifle's getting a range buff that it might be a good Idea to have the other amarrian weapon be better for close range fighting, and the steady beam will be hard to dance by. all CCP will have to do is change some numbers, they won't even have to fix the god awful sights. I just want a usable LR one way or the other. It was my favorite gun. I'd rather see it turned into an SMG than kept neutered.
Templar Renegade200 Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 3	Posted - 2013.06.04 06:31:00 - [13] - Quote I used the basic laser rifle on a suit with no bonus to heat reduction and have found that laser rifles are fine as they are in terms of heat build up. Furthermore the faster heat build up can be considered a boon because the laser rifle deals more damage with heat build up. Learn to manage heat and make your shots count. 514 In regards to the new iron sights attached to the laser rifles; if you can aim down sights with an assault rifle, you can aim a laser rifle. Because I am infected with the sleeper virus and totally insane, I'll even spoon feed you on how to aim. First, adjust your aim sensitivity in the options menu and use trial and error to find a setting that your comfortable with. It took me 2 weeks to find mine. On the iron sights, you'll notice 3 white lights. When you fire the laser rifle, the beam will hit whatever the middle while light is over. Put the middle white light on a mid-ranged target and pull the trigger. Remember to track the target. Lastly, this is the most important part now. Are you even listening? Scream at the very top of your lungs: "IM A FIRING MY LAZOR!!!" 514 514 514 It's not that I don't agree that their could be a better scope for the laser rifle; it's that people whining that the rifle is unusable with iron sights is silly. Yes CEO Pyrex, I am calling you silly. 514 [*] And for my last point, referencing an OP weapon, the tactical assault rifle, is not a valid reason to buff a weapon. 514 That sort of logic will simply lead to more OP weapons. 514 514 514
matsumoto yuichi san SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 5	Posted - 2013.06.04 12:53:00 - [14] - Quote it does more damage from a longer duty cycle not from the heat, so if you were to have a long duty cycle followed by pulsed duty cycles at high heat you WILL NOT get more damage on the successive duty cycles, unforunately
Your Absolut End SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 85	Posted - 2013.06.04 16:56:00 - [15] - Quote I used the Laser in Chromosome and I think the biggest issue with the Laser was a combination with the SS skil and the small maps. Ambush was 50/50. 50% of the maps you were a monster 50% you lost horrible I think the laser in chromosome dmage-wise was perfect. There was no need for a nerf. Keep in mind the laser only did this awesome damage in it's optimal range, and most ambush maps were in the optimal range of the LR, that's why it seemed so powerful. Also the laser ONLY does real damage in it's optimal, so you were just deadly in long range (assault, not sniper standards here). Mid and Close range most of the times was an instant death, unless you were skilled (in and outgame) with your sidearm. Escpecially with the maps in the size we have them right now, even the laser from chromosome would not be OP, just flank that guy and kill him, I don't see OP here. The new LR is all in all unusable. I had LR-skill and proficiency on 5 and was using the advanced racial amarr suit. You simply can't get a kill, the heat build up is way to fast, there's no difference in base damage from the standard model to the prototype (seriously wtf?). The overheat damage is just cruel, look at the difference between SCR and LR thats ridicoulus. An on top of this the new Aim is horrible. I got 32 Assists on an Ambush with that. And all of this assists were the same: I tried my best hitting anything with the aim and right when I had them down to 20% of armour left when my LR exploded and ripped all my shields away. And this happend at least 20 times out of that 32 assist. Besides this the laser is still useless in 50% of the maps. Because as soon as you enter a compound with it you will die. If I now see anyone using LR, I cry and smile to the same time and just rip this guy apart with the SCR (which is actually a nice balanced weapon) Fix it or erase it, nobody needs a LR like this, and I'd rather see it completely gone then this crippled.
Talos Alomar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 878	Posted - 2013.06.04 22:29:00 - [16] - Quote Templar Renegade200 wrote: I used the basic laser rifle on a suit with no bonus to heat reduction and have found that laser rifles are fine as they are in terms of heat build up. Furthermore the faster heat build up can be considered a boon because the laser rifle deals more damage with heat build up. Learn to manage heat and make your shots count. 514 Heat has nothing to do with damage, it's based on time alone. dead templar wrote: In regards to the new iron sights attached to the laser rifles; if you can aim down sights with an assault rifle, you can aim a laser rifle. Because I am infected with the sleeper virus and totally insane, I'll even spoon feed you on how to aim. First, adjust your aim sensitivity in the options menu and use trial and error to find a setting that your comfortable with. It took me 2 weeks to find mine. On the iron sights, you'll notice 3 white lights. When you fire the laser rifle, the beam will hit whatever the middle while light is over. Put the middle white light on a mid-ranged target and pull the trigger. Remember to track the target. Lastly, this is the most important part now. Are you even listening? Scream at the very top of your lungs: "IM A FIRING MY LAZOR!!!" 514 514 514 The problem isn't the sights - it's the big green glow that blocks most everything out. that's a problem that EVERY SINGLE EXPERIENCED LR user has had. Having to guess which way someone went because you can't see them because the glow blocked them out and your suit is telling you you aren't damaging anyone. You need to be able to see with a precision weapon. It's not that I don't agree that their could be a better scope for the laser rifle; it's that people whining that the rifle is unusable with iron sights is silly. Yes CEO Pyrex, I am calling you silly. 514 does anybody actually read the names? wrote: And for my last point, referencing an OP weapon, the tactical assault rifle, is not a valid reason to buff a weapon. 514 That sort of logic will simply lead to more OP weapons. 514 514 514 But it's a perfectly valid reason to re-balance weapons. If a certain weapon is getting outperformed consistently at the ranges it's supposed to do well at that is a concern, and should be reported to the devs.
matsumoto yuichi san SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 5	Posted - 2013.06.05 17:05:00 - [17] - Quote getting this back to not page 4 simply because IWS wanted a good thread on this and if it falls too far off then it won't serve that purpose, i think we have been mostly constructive so far. essentially all of the concerns regarding the current LR state have been mentioned i have neglected to suggest solutions (short of making the ADS not terribad) because i feel that that isn't my place specifically, so i just make comparisons and observations and say, this aint right. ideally we get some fix for some of this soonish i would not like to see a whole build with a whole weapon gone just because you never got round to it, and it's all fine and dandy adding the missing racial stuff, in fact i would love to have it all drop atm, but the fact of the matter is until what you have is playing at least decently then the additional items will not be as helpful as you antcipate, you'll either add a new "BEST" option or the current stuff will be good enough that there would not be a good reason to use the new things as it would require skilling into them. this i say will happen because as much as you guys seem to have a great concept for cool, and good ideas for weapon functions, you seem terrible with making the numbers / implementation actually work out everything looks ok on paper, then you try it, and just laugh....
Bob Amarrley KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 19	Posted - 2013.06.05 17:51:00 - [18] - Quote Unless another respec happens sometime, it's too late for lasers. I started on scrambler rifles instead...with just level 3 in SCR operation, I am tons more effective than with laser proficiency 5.
Belendur Balfour Silver Gryphons Inc DARKSTAR ARMY 15	Posted - 2013.06.05 18:31:00 - [19] - Quote Most important item, FIX THE SITES. they do not work for the intended use of the weapon. Next item, they need at least a slight increase in damage per level to bring them in line with the other weapons. even a 0.3 increase would be something. Range, they need better range and good tracking speed when in the sites, as only holding the beam on the target can kill it. Also if it is supposed to be balanced, then why does the heat damage go up with the level? The scrambler rifle(the only other laser weapon with heat build up) does not do that, it is a flat 50 through all levels.
Talos Alomar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 882	Posted - 2013.06.06 03:46:00 - [20] - Quote I think I'm going to bump this until CCP Remnant graces us with his insight. I'm thinking about starting a fanclub for the guy/girl due to him actually giving us some details on what's going on.



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