DUST Search - AFK Farming is the only way to sustain

Arx Ardashir wrote:

Well I don't know what the hell people are talking about with earning 150-200k in a match by AFKing. I just tried it and my team had some squad of 4 that stomped, with KDRs in the 20s, and I got a measly 28k ISK for sitting in the corner scratching my ass. So I'm pretty sure the ISK earned from destroying enemy equipment is scaled according to your rank on the Killboard, meaning it's scaled by WP earned. I earned 0 WP, got 16th place, and 28k ISK for my trouble. I'm sure the stop spot made around 10x that, at least.

---

In regards to the OP, PC is very tight right now, but is going to be expanded SoonGäó. Right now it's only a small section of Molden Heath, but will eventually encompass all of null sec. That'll make it more accessible to more players.

About grinding ISK, the instant battles aren't supposed to be the best way to grind it, contracts from EVE players should be. Only problem is that it isn't in the game yet. Since Instant battles are just that, and you get thrown in with an assortment of randoms, it shouldn't be high stakes.

Eventually you'll also be able to sell all that salvage you get but don't use, and that'll be another source of income. Especially if it's an officer version of a gun you don't plan on skilling for.

The problem is that the game just doesn't have the infrastructure yet, and because of CCP's haste, we can't even blame it on "it's a beta" anymore. For the forseeable future, the only option is play the game the way it is at the moment. The bright side is that it should eventually expand and get better. Hopefully.

War and Profit Blog wrote:

Money

ISK is the primary currency in the EVE Universe and a necessity for fighting wars. You will earn ISK from each battle you fight. The size of the reward depends on your contribution and the cost of the battle. Those who contribute more are rewarded handsomely, but all mercs are guaranteed a solid income.

A portion of the reward pool for each battle depends on the value of items destroyed in the battle. If the battle saw countless vehicles and expensive prototype gear destroyed, everyone is in for bigger rewards. ISK rewards are calculated as follows for each participant:

Base rewards GÇô Every mercenary receives basic compensation for each battle they fight. The size of the reward depends on the time you spent fighting, so joining a battle late will net you lower earnings. Value of objects destroyed in battle has no bearing on this part of the reward.
Team rewards GÇô The total rewards calculated from the value destroyed are split between the participating teams, with the winning team earning a larger share. Then, each participant earns a cut of the total rewards that their team received based on the time they spent in the battle. If youGÇÖre late to the party, youGÇÖll earn a smaller cut.
Individual rewards GÇô Finally, every participant receives a reward based on their individual contribution on the battlefield. Mercs earn war points based on their actions in the course of each battle, and the more war points you score, the higher your cut of the total payout.

Having a solid income is necessary, as you will be using the ISK you earn to buy upgrades, and to resupply any gear you lose during combat. Everything you take into battle in DUST 514 can get destroyed. Luckily, most items are in ready supply should you have the cash.

Joining a player-run corporation might make your life more comfortable and earn you reliable funding, but you will have to rely on your personal earnings until you find a corporation to take you in.


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Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 1059	Posted - 2013.06.01 19:38:00 - [1] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: I'm about to start. 14-5, #2 on the board. Took out a squad of protos with an orbital. Received a payout of 212,000 ISK. I could AFK in the the MCC and get 180,000. A loss of about 400,000 ISK. The alternative is to run around in BPOs and grind 15 hours a week to save money to play a few matches in my good stuff. Then cross my fingers that I get hit detection with my MD. I'm done grinding. I can't afford to play the game on a regular basis at this rate. Come up with a system that pays more for people that want to risk their proto gear. Fellow MD Logi here o/ I've gone to running pure BPO fits until CCP fixes the hit detection and makes the MD usable again. Under current circumstances the cost v benefit just doesn't justify using it. Especially with the stats still broken (last I heard) in Skirmish I'm just baking ISK and capping my SP right now. When the injectors, hit detection and uplinks are fixed I can give another shot to playing in a more aggressive way. Until then just waiting. (who knows maybe by then the exploits in PC may be removed as well )
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 1060	Posted - 2013.06.01 20:46:00 - [2] - Quote I'm not saying this would resolve everything but it seems like PC would be more accessible with more districts open and all these awox exploits closed.
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 1063	Posted - 2013.06.01 21:49:00 - [3] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Cross Atu wrote: I'm not saying this would resolve everything but it seems like PC would be more accessible with more districts open and all these awox exploits closed. I don't agree. It would just mean the best corps would have more PC battles each day. Well the exploits are a bit turn off for quite a few players so that lowers the overall population of possible participants which effects the nature of PC game wide. Leaving that aside unless the big alliances/corps keep growing they can't expand indefinitely, there are logistical and personnel issues. Even if those bit groups did continue to expand this would still mean a higher percentage of the player base would be participating which addresses, to an extent, the concerns you were raising (specifically pointing to the 5% figure you quoted). Again I'm not saying this addresses everything just that it's an aspect which could help ameliorate present conditions. As to gear use in general all I can do is cite my own, I run more free fits than anything else because of the bugs in game. However when I do run Proto (outside of PC) I can lose 2 fits in a battle and still slightly come out ahead on ISK. I can't speak to the number of kills this requires as I play primarily Logi so my points tend not to be kills based (tho popping HAVs certainly helps my after match totals). I have noticed however that playing an Ambush (or even OMS) tends to more often be a net loss for me if I run proto where as playing a Dom or Skirm tends to be a net gain (longer matches = more kills + destructions ---> higher total payouts). I'm on balance profitable but I usually don't bother to run Proto at this point and likely won't until the major bugs are fixed. Currently the extra from proto doesn't justify the extra risk for me so I run free and don't worry about it. I realize that the above doesn't solve the troubles your confronting but it's my own experiences on the same topic. Cheers, Cross
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 1063	Posted - 2013.06.01 22:06:00 - [4] - Quote Arx Ardashir wrote: Well I don't know what the hell people are talking about with earning 150-200k in a match by AFKing. I just tried it and my team had some squad of 4 that stomped, with KDRs in the 20s, and I got a measly 28k ISK for sitting in the corner scratching my ass. So I'm pretty sure the ISK earned from destroying enemy equipment is scaled according to your rank on the Killboard, meaning it's scaled by WP earned. I earned 0 WP, got 16th place, and 28k ISK for my trouble. I'm sure the stop spot made around 10x that, at least. --- In regards to the OP, PC is very tight right now, but is going to be expanded SoonGäó. Right now it's only a small section of Molden Heath, but will eventually encompass all of null sec. That'll make it more accessible to more players. About grinding ISK, the instant battles aren't supposed to be the best way to grind it, contracts from EVE players should be. Only problem is that it isn't in the game yet. Since Instant battles are just that, and you get thrown in with an assortment of randoms, it shouldn't be high stakes. Eventually you'll also be able to sell all that salvage you get but don't use, and that'll be another source of income. Especially if it's an officer version of a gun you don't plan on skilling for. The problem is that the game just doesn't have the infrastructure yet, and because of CCP's haste, we can't even blame it on "it's a beta" anymore. For the forseeable future, the only option is play the game the way it is at the moment. The bright side is that it should eventually expand and get better. Hopefully. Informational post relating to some of the issues raised above Player market is coming next build or the build after so we're looking at aprox 2-12 months until we see it, that's quite a range to be sure but it'll likely be a bit on the sooner rather than the later end. War and Profit - Dev Blog War and Profit Blog wrote: Money ISK is the primary currency in the EVE Universe and a necessity for fighting wars. You will earn ISK from each battle you fight. The size of the reward depends on your contribution and the cost of the battle. Those who contribute more are rewarded handsomely, but all mercs are guaranteed a solid income. A portion of the reward pool for each battle depends on the value of items destroyed in the battle. If the battle saw countless vehicles and expensive prototype gear destroyed, everyone is in for bigger rewards. ISK rewards are calculated as follows for each participant: Base rewards GÇô Every mercenary receives basic compensation for each battle they fight. The size of the reward depends on the time you spent fighting, so joining a battle late will net you lower earnings. Value of objects destroyed in battle has no bearing on this part of the reward. Team rewards GÇô The total rewards calculated from the value destroyed are split between the participating teams, with the winning team earning a larger share. Then, each participant earns a cut of the total rewards that their team received based on the time they spent in the battle. If youGÇÖre late to the party, youGÇÖll earn a smaller cut. Individual rewards GÇô Finally, every participant receives a reward based on their individual contribution on the battlefield. Mercs earn war points based on their actions in the course of each battle, and the more war points you score, the higher your cut of the total payout. Having a solid income is necessary, as you will be using the ISK you earn to buy upgrades, and to resupply any gear you lose during combat. Everything you take into battle in DUST 514 can get destroyed. Luckily, most items are in ready supply should you have the cash. Joining a player-run corporation might make your life more comfortable and earn you reliable funding, but you will have to rely on your personal earnings until you find a corporation to take you in. So actual per match earnings will fluctuate based on the above factors. The TL;DR is that if you want to maximize your profits don't bother with matches already in progress, focus on earning WP over things like KDR an prioritize higher value targets first (HAVs, Mercs in Proto, that Thales sniper, etc). Using this method I earned between 180k-423k ISK per match today (playing all match types except PC). During these matches I had a lower than 1.0 KDR as often as I had a 1.0 KDR and I don't recall ever breaking 2.5 on my KDR. But when you go 4/12 with those 4 being 2 LAVs, 1 HAV, 1 DS while providing ammo, reps, and revives it stacks the income decently (oh and I was running in free fits throughout all matches today with the exception of running ADV AV nades once and my proto fit once for 2 min before swapping into something free at a depot). I don't know what other folks are using or what they're earning doing it but I hope this information is useful to some of the mercs reading. Cheers, Cross EDIT: Oh one thing I forgot, I read that the ratio is Winning team 2/3 Losing team 1/3 when the ISK pot is divided up, can't find the link at the moment but to the best of my knowledge that is still the general apportioning still in use currently.
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 1063	Posted - 2013.06.01 22:11:00 - [5] - Quote Mike Poole wrote: ShwerShwerShwer wrote: The thing is, proto gear was never intended to be ran 24/7 This isn't just about proto gear. That's just the worst example. If I wanted to equip my logi in all advanced gear that's something like 45k per fit. Anything more than 4 deaths, or sometimes 3 deaths with really horrible payouts, and I'm either in the red or barely scraping by. That's something which is often overlooked. Logi fits are always more expensive than the equivalent fits of other classes (assuming all fitting slots are used in all cases and the same level of mods are used in the fits) because the Logi have more slots to fill. The versatility of the Logi suit is an asset to be sure, and I like supporting my teammates but make no mistake each one of those costs both ISK and SP to accomplish.
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 1063	Posted - 2013.06.01 22:48:00 - [6] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: The payouts done by splitting ISK up based on salvage and such only makes sense if there were ANY kind of actual market or industry in game. Perhaps they can find some way to merge the markets of these two games, but this is going to take people much smarter than anyone on these forums and by people that have nothing to do with developing video games for it to be successful. In the meantime, it should reward good play regardless of drop suits used or killed. Someone who knows something about economics from outside of gaming development you say? Full market merge is on the roadmap tho it's a ways out yet. Prior to that we'll have a limited integration with taxed asset transfers and prior to that we'll have the secondary/player market. The latter listed aspect being a priority for CCP right now and is slated to show up next build or the build after depending on how the coding goes. In essence all of the above is coming it's just a question of when and that when is between 2 months and (maybe up to) 2 years depending on which bit and how things (mostly coding the mechanics) progresses. So while it's still frustrating at present at least you can take heart that it's all in the pipeline to be resolved as well Cheers, Cross Bonus content related to this, posts #42 & #47
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 1063	Posted - 2013.06.01 23:01:00 - [7] - Quote Mike Poole wrote: The ISK/WP/SP system is never going to be remedied because this game is developed by a group with a unique combination of both ignorance and incompetence. In a game like this one of the FIRST priorities you should have is devising a reward system that adequately compensates players for the effort they put in and is capable of financially supporting the play styles necessary for players of all skill levels to play the game. The current system amazingly manages to do neither. WP is rewarded in the laziest means possible for an almost bare minimum of actions, SP is rewarded almost purely for existing during a game and ISK payouts are at best arbitrarily decided. The fact that the game has been "released" and this most basic and critical system is barely developed speaks to how seriously the development of this game has been taken. See my post above for the details of how the system works currently (it's really not that arbitrary it's derived from WP earned and value of assets destroyed). Regarding the WP awards system it's in it's fledgling stages and going to be expanded & improved. CCP Nothin wrote: We have quite a few additional WP rewards in plans along with iteration work on the existing rewards, e.g. rewarding interruption of hacks, adding more rewards for dropship pilots, increasing the granularity of assist rewards (i.e. giving more or less WP based on how significant your assistance was), giving a bonus for doing things with your squad, and so on. Overall, we feel that we don't quite have the full set of rewards in place yetbut we are working at getting to a better place. As I see it, a decent player should be able to play in, for example, a support role full time without having to do part-time gigs in other jobs to cover the costs. If you have a good idea for a reward that works to strengthen some of the areas that need it, we'd love to hear it. Would I like all of this now and or yesterday? Sure. But I'd rather CCP take their time than rush things, doubly so because this game is being road mapped on a 10 year plan with no intent to discontinue development even after that mark so we're going to see continuing and consistent updates roughly ever 3-6 months plus hotfixes. 0.02 ISK Cross
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 1063	Posted - 2013.06.01 23:08:00 - [8] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: I'd rather them increase payouts and fix the game before working on new stuff. It's best to have fewer things work well than many that are broken. I'm not trying to be negative there. There are some core things that need a lot of work. Reworking ISK payouts seems like it wouldn't take a lot. ISK payouts aren't really separate from salvage values, player market or the economic merge of D514 with EVE. They're all directly connected and part of what takes time is making sure that each piece fits, altering values in any one has implications for the rest and requires due care to avoid longer term issues. The current situation isn't ideal there's no doubt about that but what's being worked on right now has direct applications to provide redress. Altering payout values has to be done with the long term in mind including the comparative value of ISK in both aspects of New Eden, the markets aren't merged at present but it's always been the goal which means not overlooking the New Eden wide implications of each change and going more slowly right now to get things done properly. Again I fully understand that this is frustrating and constraining, I'm a support Logi with a MD working for Merc based corp and these current mechanics hinder or outright block most of my play style and longer term plans for Dust but the fixes are coming, an' I'm just saying better they take awhile longer and get it done properly than do parts faster now and create more work (and possibly problems) down the line. Cheers, Cross
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 1064	Posted - 2013.06.01 23:49:00 - [9] - Quote Mike Poole wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Would I like all of this now and or yesterday? Sure. But I'd rather CCP take their time than rush things, doubly so because this game is being road mapped on a 10 year plan with no intent to discontinue development even after that mark so we're going to see continuing and consistent updates roughly ever 3-6 months plus hotfixes. 0.02 ISK Cross I REALLY wish people would stop using this "10 year plan" as a rationalization for things sucking now. Having a payout or WP system that functions beyond the ultimate bare bones isn't some wide eyed fantasy you should be looking forward to months or years after a game releases. This is a critical fundamental mechanic that should have been hammered out long before the game even came out of beta but instead it's been tossed on the back burner just like the aiming/control issues and terrain issues. Did you read any of the links I've been posting? It's not on the back burner it's being worked on as a priority now. Further it's going to be rolled out in layers (as was announced and always intended since before I even joined closed beta). This is not something that has been neglected or omitted and I'll repeat it's being worked on now so what more do you want? The answer seems to be "everything already done" but it isn't and no forum post or anything else for that matter will make the coding that is in process right now happen any faster (I suppose arguably if CCP hired more programers it might be faster but that could also introduce the potential for more bugs and may not even be a theoretical possibility budget wise). Saying "don't release the game until it's done" totally makes sense to me, except when the game is slated for continuous on going development. Then there is no "done" so waiting on release accomplishes no positive gains. None of this is a "rationalization" it's an observation and a general stance I'll maintain unless/until someone provides a more effective actionable alternative. Failing that anything else amounts to saying "I want it all now" and do I want it all now? Yeah of course I do. But is that useful actionable feedback, is that constructive? No it is not. And if one is not posting constructively or with the desire to be constructive it begs the question what is the motivation for posting? 0.02 ISK Cross