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Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention
1046
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Posted - 2013.06.01 03:14:00 -
[1] - Quote
This thread is being created as per the suggestion below.
Cosgar's Alt wrote:Cross Atu wrote:I realize this is not a comment which will be exclusive to the Mass Driver but it is relevant to the Mass Driver situation. Hold for triple layered font effects of emphasis.
All "ninja" nerfs/buffs most unequivocally cease!
Listed in the stats for the weapon etc is also patendtly inadquate, every time there is a change to the stats of any weapon, suit, skill, et al the specific details need to be listed in a patch notes thread along with an in game notice that such a change has been made and to see the thread for details. Ideally all smaller changes (read those which are not a new build) would be sent out to all characters via an in game mail message as well so that those PS3 users who do not possess ready access to a computer are not left out of the loop.
Dealing with having a weapon toned down due to it being overpowered (even if I've spent SP into it) is fine. No respec needed, no complaints. However dealing with any piece of gear or any skill which has been altered without specific notice shifts the burden of responsibility to the developers rather than the players for it is patently unreasonable to expect every player to review every skill and bit of gear they use each and every time they log in to play the game.
0.02 ISK Cross You need to make a topic on this. Preferably general, since they're going to wind up moving it to the graveyard feedback anyway. Might as well give it some exposure. Just add a little more background on the situation, including the HMG, pistols, and all vehicles. All of the above suffered significant ninja nerfs.
I've decided to open this up to the community, please post in this thread listing all ninja nerfs and buffs which have directly impacted one or more characters you personally play. I realize may players will have the same things to say but that's part of the point, these undocumented changes are an unacceptable practice within a persistent sandbox world. It is the players responsibility to make careful informed decisions and to live with the consequences of their choices and mistakes. It is CCPs responsibility to provide comprehensive information on all altered game mechanics so that it is possible for the players to make those informed decisions. |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention
1046
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Posted - 2013.06.01 03:14:00 -
[2] - Quote
reserved |
Cosgar's Alt
Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic
174
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Posted - 2013.06.01 03:24:00 -
[3] - Quote
Exactly!
In a game about rewards through investments there have been too many game mechanics suffering just for playing the game correctly. Tanks invested millions of SP into their respective specialization, heavies into their weapon, and MD users into their weapon. In the end our rewards were nerfs. People have been spouting "adapt or die" or "HTFU," but this exceeds the context of New Eden's parameters. Once the investment/reward cycle is transcends the 4th wall, all bets are off.
If CCP wants to shut down the site and make the game the way they want to, ignoring our feedback, fine. If they want to be transparent, taking our feedback into consideration while keeping us in the loop, that's okay too. But none of this middle of the road crap. I'm actually sitting here awaiting the day that my logi suit is going to be restricted to a sidearm because I'm sure they'll just decide it on a whim without warning. Maybe with some forewarning I could find a way to adapt in due time, but I'd rather biomass my toon to find out without prior notification. |
XxGhazbaranxX
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
57
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Posted - 2013.06.01 03:29:00 -
[4] - Quote
I've done threads for them to stop making ninja changes but they it died. I also made a thread saying the following which I think goes well with your thread. Hope you don't mind me posting it here. BTW fully support your thread. Too bad the player base does not understand the importance of fully documented changes. The last paragraph is the one that asks for fully documented changes.
XxGhazbaranxX wrote:Hello,
I, like others, have asked for a skill respect. I would not be writing this request if it had not been for a poorly phrased mail I received after i submitted my ticket. This mail was an automated message given to all players who asked for a respec. In this respons CCP stated "Please ensure that due care is taken when spending skills and ISK as we will be unable to reverse ISK/SP spending in future. "
As you can see the phrase "due care" stings a bit to those who used their SP carefully but got smacked in the face with the severity of the changes. For example. How where HMG users to know that their precious gun got such a nasty nerf on range? How where the mass driver users to know that the nerf on damage and splash radius would affect the weapons so horribly because of desync issues and shield buffs to suits; The list goes on.
The meaning of this post is to kill two birds with one stone. The first bird is an apology because even when we knew some of the changes done to some of the weapons there where others, like keyboard / mouse changes, range changes that where posted after most people had put skill points into their weapons, changes to the mass driver, etc. that where not announced and had great effect on the overall gameplay. The second bird is patch notes. I would like a formal apology from CCP because they have not provided complete or at least a comprehensive list of changes that make the player base able to choose with "DUE CARE" what to invest their hard earned SP into because of the simple fact the there is no information on any of the changes done to some of these areas. |
Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
2500
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Posted - 2013.06.01 03:33:00 -
[5] - Quote
Personally, I prefer that CCP let us know of ANY and ALL changes to the stats and behavior of anything that happens in Dust. They are quite upfront with the information in Eve Online, yet they seem to be lacking in such capacity with Dust when it comes to things like ninja nerfs or ninja buffs. Since CCP has already setup a NEWS tab on the launch window of Dust, they might as well utilize it for EVERY change they make. |
undeadsoldier90
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
503
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Posted - 2013.06.01 03:39:00 -
[6] - Quote
Vehicle pg
Minmitar Scout speed reduced by 0.30
Militia nano |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention
1051
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Posted - 2013.06.01 03:43:00 -
[7] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Personally, I prefer that CCP let us know of ANY and ALL changes to the stats and behavior of anything that happens in Dust. They are quite upfront with the information in Eve Online, yet they seem to be lacking in such capacity with Dust when it comes to things like ninja nerfs or ninja buffs. Since CCP has already setup a NEWS tab on the launch window of Dust, they might as well utilize it for EVERY change they make. Yes. I am honestly quite perplexed by the shortfall in Dust side communication... can you imagine how things would go if CCP rolled out the new BC changes without all of the prior notice they've given?
I know Dust is in the early stages and that things get more hectic in development due to that, but the very fact that its such a new game makes it all the more crucial that transparency be maintained. |
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe. League of Infamy
301
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Posted - 2013.06.01 03:46:00 -
[8] - Quote
I can't post any stats or proof, but I believe the flux grenade has had some work done to it. |
XxGhazbaranxX
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
57
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Posted - 2013.06.01 03:59:00 -
[9] - Quote
Imagine if they made the upcoming changes to battleships without telling anyone, and the skill changes for racial bc and racial destroyer. They would be in a s**t storm. |
Cosgar's Alt
Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic
176
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Posted - 2013.06.01 04:03:00 -
[10] - Quote
CPM member seem to be online. I wonder if they'll chime in on this or does CCP have them by the balls. (or pants lol) |
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hydraSlav's
Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation
180
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Posted - 2013.06.01 04:16:00 -
[11] - Quote
You know what... I usually don't complain about CCP, but i will put my 2 cents.
I laughed at people crying when they wasted SP after Uprising was released (CCP did inform us of skill tree changes, anyone smart would have waited before spending SP). [Few bad skill descriptions notwithstanding] I laughed when people got negative ISK for overspending (again, CCP did warn everyone not to overspend). [Once again supposed incorrect maths resulting in improper reversals notwithstanding]. And i am still laughing at people that were demanding their AUR refund after "commercial release". Go ahead, reset your character to beginning. I really want to know how many people chose that option.
Maybe this is because i am an EvE veteran, coming on 10 years. But this subject is very important.... and guess what EvE does it perfectly. Have you seen EvE's change notes? You can spend 2-3 hours reading them just for 1 release. Yes i know cause i do spend 2-3 hours reading the change notes for each new release. The detail is amazing. Every single number is communicated. Sometimes you come across the same piece of info twice, but i'd rather have that, than no info. They even put info about exploit fixes in there (details hidden until after the fix, but yet the information is there)
Compared to that, Dust 514 change notes are almost non-existent. I was excited when the new launcher came in Uprising.... sadly the change notes page there is not updated...
I've created and maintain Dust Fitting Tool. All these minute changes are more important to me than anyone. People rely on the tool before spending SP and ISK in-game... and when the data there is inaccurate, i am powerless. So, let's have some examples:
The data-dump had essential information missing: - No CPU/PG requirement for modules - No Slot layouts for dropsuits. I had to manually collect this data from in-game for modules/suits that were available... and solicit community's help to find this for rare/officer modules
CCP said they would do a 10% damage increase across the board. - However when applying 10% to damage from data-dump, and then comparing that to in-game data, there is a lot of discrepancies. Some higher, some lower, by a margin higher than rounding error. - Also, Nova Knives and Grenades did not get any damage increase Again, i had to manually go through in-game and collect each one by hand... but what about all other rare/officer weapons?
The data-dump is listing Movement and Sprint speed rounded to 1 decimal place, yet in-game it uses values to 2 decimal places. The result of skills and modules calculation is quite different when using inaccurate rounded values.
In Chromosome, the shield/armor/cpu/pg calculation was always truncated. In Uprsing, it is actually rounded and carried over between role, skills and modules calculations. There was absolutely no mention of this in the change notes for Uprising. I had to find out the hard way, after i released the Uprising data for the spreadsheet, and people reported inaccuracies which were caused by this unannounced change.
Can't remember any more from the top of my head, but that should be start. Dust, please copy your bigger sister EvE when it comes to change notes and communication
Thank you
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Cosgar's Alt
Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic
178
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Posted - 2013.06.01 04:24:00 -
[12] - Quote
Oh, just remembered that large turret operation's passive bonus was reduced to +1% damage per level recently, vehicle circuitry and engineering passives were reduced to 1% per level in uprising. |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention
1054
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Posted - 2013.06.01 04:41:00 -
[13] - Quote
+1 hydraSlav's on pretty much all counts.
I would be more than happy to see an EVE level of detail in the Dust communication and notes, in fact that sentiment sums up the entire motivation/request behind this thread.
Cheers, Cross |
Cosgar's Alt
Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic
182
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Posted - 2013.06.01 05:49:00 -
[14] - Quote
Hmmm, I was expecting IWS to throw out some random inside fact at this point. Maybe there is a gag on the CPM. |
Cosgar's Alt
Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic
187
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Posted - 2013.06.01 07:13:00 -
[15] - Quote
bump |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention
1058
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Posted - 2013.06.01 18:35:00 -
[16] - Quote
weekend bump, I know there are more stories out there or is everyone busy hunting Templar? |
S0LlD SNAKE
PLAYSTATION4
81
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Posted - 2013.06.01 18:37:00 -
[17] - Quote
wtf is ninja nerf? |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention
1059
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Posted - 2013.06.01 19:23:00 -
[18] - Quote
S0LlD SNAKE wrote:wtf is ninja nerf? A "ninja" nerf or buff is when the function or stats of an in game mechanic is changed without documentation being provided to inform the player base. |
S0LlD SNAKE
PLAYSTATION4
82
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Posted - 2013.06.01 19:35:00 -
[19] - Quote
Cross Atu wrote:S0LlD SNAKE wrote:wtf is ninja nerf? A "ninja" nerf or buff is when the function or stats of an in game mechanic is changed without documentation being provided to inform the player base.
oh , yeah that sucks indeed
u know before , you could see the % u get from damage mods when u press square on the fitting to see its stats
now u cant see that anymore
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Malkai Inos
The Vanguardians Orion Empire
218
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Posted - 2013.06.01 20:05:00 -
[20] - Quote
S0LlD SNAKE wrote:Cross Atu wrote:S0LlD SNAKE wrote:wtf is ninja nerf? A "ninja" nerf or buff is when the function or stats of an in game mechanic is changed without documentation being provided to inform the player base. oh , yeah that sucks indeed u know before , you could see the % u get from damage mods when u press square on the fitting to see its stats now u cant see that anymore The information was inaccurate, hence it was "fixed" by removing it altogether.
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Klank Klank
The Cuirassers
26
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Posted - 2013.06.01 20:14:00 -
[21] - Quote
So I got the optional respec to dump all my SP into LLAV's... and discovered that it was easier than at launch to get into. Caldari LAV lvl 3 instead of 4. Was this in the patch notes? Cuz I didn't notice it there. |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention
1078
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Posted - 2013.06.04 07:17:00 -
[22] - Quote
Klank Klank wrote:So I got the optional respec to dump all my SP into LLAV's... and discovered that it was easier than at launch to get into. Caldari LAV lvl 3 instead of 4. Was this in the patch notes? Cuz I didn't notice it there. Base patch notes no, also those general notes have not been updated as far as I'm aware. There were a few updates issued regarding cost and requirement changes to both dropsuits and vehicles but the lack of a centralized source for such information (Dev Blog? Dedicated Patch Notes sub-forum? Single thread which is updated?) makes such information easy to miss.
I personally check the forums daily and am still able to miss some of the information which is put out (and then there's the info that still simply isn't listed). CCP does a great job of communication when it comes to EVE, they just need to get on their own level when it comes to the information provided to us regarding Dust 514.
~Cross |
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