DUST Search - Swarm Launcher (AV) Guide

Quil Evrything wrote:

Fox Gaden wrote:

Proposed (but not final) changes to the Swarm Launcher for 1.7 (maybe):
- Reduced swarm launcher damage (330 -> 220)
- Reduced Swarm Launcher lock-on range from 400m to 175m

With the range nerf the Swarm Launcher will no longer be a sniper weapon, but I always found it was more fun and more effective from around 100m anyway. I support the range nerf. From a balance perspective it is a good move on CCPGÇÖs part.

The damage nerf has to be considered in conjunction with the Vehicle changes, so you canGÇÖt compare it against the current situation. I will not be able to form an informed opinion on it until after it is applied and I get a chance to try it.

Currently the Swarm Launcher is so overpowered that I have mostly stopped using it. It just makes me feel guilty. Oops

Good move? overpowered???

Maybe if you have fully proto full skill unlocked. But for mere mortals, it's terrible.
When Me with an ADV swarm launcher, PLUS a guy with militia swarm launcher, working in tandem, cannot put a dent in an assault dropship... then they dont need any kind of nerf.

If they do get nerfed, I may as well just throw away my swarm launcher fit and build up my FG stats instead, because swarms will then be useless for mere mortals. They wont even be able to take out LAVs any more, if they get nerfed THAT hard.

howabout they nerf, or remove, just the proto launchers? :D

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Fox Gaden DUST University Ivy League 840	Posted - 2013.08.23 21:04:00 - [31] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: Seems like this thread needs an update: militia swarms now have 6 missiles instead of 4 I think? I am talking about the number of missiles that come out of the end of your launcher every time you let go of the trigger, not the number of missile packs that you have in the weapon or on your person when you spawn.
Quil Evrything Skil Legendz 7	Posted - 2013.08.23 21:27:00 - [32] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Quil Evrything wrote: Seems like this thread needs an update: militia swarms now have 6 missiles instead of 4 I think? I am talking about the number of missiles that come out of the end of your launcher every time you let go of the trigger,. So am I. I thought there were 6 now, for militia.
Fox Gaden DUST University Ivy League 840	Posted - 2013.08.23 21:33:00 - [33] - Quote I just checked. The info in game on the basic Swarm Launcher still says 4 missiles. Or are you talking about after 1.4? I have not looked at the patch notes yet.
Quil Evrything Skil Legendz 7	Posted - 2013.08.23 21:52:00 - [34] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: I just checked. The info in game on the basic Swarm Launcher still says 4 missiles. Or are you talking about after 1.4? I have not looked at the patch notes yet. Forget "game info", go load up a militia swarm and see what it does? :) I'd recheck myself, but I'm 4 hours away from being able to do so. Seems like I recall there were 6 little glowy objects flying from my shoulder though. and/or 6 little "beeps" that needed to lock on, before the unit would fire.
Quil Evrything Skil Legendz 7	Posted - 2013.08.24 13:30:00 - [35] - Quote My deepest apologies... I got a chance to revisit it with the standard starter AV fitting, and it still only does 4. wierd. I could have sworn it did 6...?..... sigh
Fox Gaden Expert Intervention Caldari State 846	Posted - 2013.08.24 16:39:00 - [36] - Quote ThatGÇÖs ok Qull. Maybe you where experiencing a glitch. Stranger things have happened.
Charlotte O'Dell 0uter.Heaven 1090	Posted - 2013.08.24 20:10:00 - [37] - Quote This weapon is a crutch. Get a forge gun like a real man.
Hotflashes It's So Fluffy 3	Posted - 2013.08.24 20:37:00 - [38] - Quote I'm no man. Give me a pink shiney swarm launcher :)
Quil Evrything DUST University Ivy League 44	Posted - 2013.09.05 21:49:00 - [39] - Quote more dumb "is that realy true"? questions... Reguarding losing a lock only by "waiting"... might it be possible to lose it by a temporary sprint? Seems like a lot of other things get reset that way. Or, switch weapon. If you have one equipped, that is. Both seems to be nicer to me than "turn away and wait". You can lose track of where your target is.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 873	Posted - 2013.09.05 23:38:00 - [40] - Quote For a while you could cancel by switching weapons, then switching weapons caused it to shoot. I will have to test to see if this was fixed. I will have to update it for 1.4 soon, so I will try to test those things before I do.

Humble Seeker PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 31	Posted - 2013.10.30 14:42:00 - [41] - Quote Is these any chance that this guide could be updated for the upcoming swarm launcher nerf? "Surround yourself with the faithful, Stand together, for there is no strength like it under the heavens."
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 1463	Posted - 2013.10.30 17:48:00 - [42] - Quote Humble Seeker wrote: Is these any chance that this guide could be updated for the upcoming swarm launcher nerf? No Swarm Launcher nerf was mentioned in the 1.6 Patch Notes. I will not be making any changes based on 1.7 changes until the 1.7 patch notes are released, or specific and confirmed information is otherwise available. Even then, I may hold off until I have tested the results of changes. In the past I have made updates based on patch notes and then discovered that the effect of the changes panned out differently than expected. Immortal Guides, supporting knowledge dissemination in New Eden since August 31, 2013.
Quil Evrything DUST University Ivy League 321	Posted - 2013.11.01 00:06:00 - [43] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Proposed (but not final) changes to the Swarm Launcher for 1.7 (maybe): - Reduced swarm launcher damage (330 -> 220) - Reduced Swarm Launcher lock-on range from 400m to 175m With the range nerf the Swarm Launcher will no longer be a sniper weapon, but I always found it was more fun and more effective from around 100m anyway. I support the range nerf. From a balance perspective it is a good move on CCPGÇÖs part. The damage nerf has to be considered in conjunction with the Vehicle changes, so you canGÇÖt compare it against the current situation. I will not be able to form an informed opinion on it until after it is applied and I get a chance to try it. Currently the Swarm Launcher is so overpowered that I have mostly stopped using it. It just makes me feel guilty. Good move? overpowered??? Maybe if you have fully proto full skill unlocked. But for mere mortals, it's terrible. When Me with an ADV swarm launcher, PLUS a guy with militia swarm launcher, working in tandem, cannot put a dent in an assault dropship... then they dont need any kind of nerf. If they do get nerfed, I may as well just throw away my swarm launcher fit and build up my FG stats instead, because swarms will then be useless for mere mortals. They wont even be able to take out LAVs any more, if they get nerfed THAT hard. howabout they nerf, or remove, just the proto launchers? :D
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 1478	Posted - 2013.11.01 14:24:00 - [44] - Quote Good Point. The Militia Swarm Launcher is under powered, but it sort of has to be since it is free. The Advanced Swarm Launcher is fairly balanced. It is only the Proto Swarm Launcher which is over powered. As far as the nerf to damage, keep in mind that the effective health of LAVGÇÖs, DropShips, and Tanks is being changed at the same time. Immortal Guides, supporting knowledge dissemination in New Eden since August 31, 2013.
DeadlyAztec11 Gallente Federation 2360	Posted - 2013.11.04 03:07:00 - [45] - Quote Use the classic and often over looked tactic of the Flux grenade and Swarm Launcher; "Flux n' Swarm". "It's because of people like you that I became this. And you'll never give me a reason to become someone else."
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 1754	Posted - 2013.12.05 16:55:00 - [46] - Quote I updated the guide with 1.7 stats from the Patch notes. Testing will have to be done post 1.7 to determine if the tactics sections need to be updated.
lee corwood The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 6	Posted - 2013.12.09 17:16:00 - [47] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: Proposed (but not final) changes to the Swarm Launcher for 1.7 (maybe): - Reduced swarm launcher damage (330 -> 220) - Reduced Swarm Launcher lock-on range from 400m to 175m With the range nerf the Swarm Launcher will no longer be a sniper weapon, but I always found it was more fun and more effective from around 100m anyway. I support the range nerf. From a balance perspective it is a good move on CCPGÇÖs part. The damage nerf has to be considered in conjunction with the Vehicle changes, so you canGÇÖt compare it against the current situation. I will not be able to form an informed opinion on it until after it is applied and I get a chance to try it. Currently the Swarm Launcher is so overpowered that I have mostly stopped using it. It just makes me feel guilty. Good move? overpowered??? Maybe if you have fully proto full skill unlocked. But for mere mortals, it's terrible. When Me with an ADV swarm launcher, PLUS a guy with militia swarm launcher, working in tandem, cannot put a dent in an assault dropship... then they dont need any kind of nerf. If they do get nerfed, I may as well just throw away my swarm launcher fit and build up my FG stats instead, because swarms will then be useless for mere mortals. They wont even be able to take out LAVs any more, if they get nerfed THAT hard. howabout they nerf, or remove, just the proto launchers? :D Good guide. I'm a bit upset myself at the range nerf, but not so much the damage. I have lvl 5 proto with prof 2 and 3x damage mods. I actually stopped targeting LAVs as I felt that was really unfair, unless I see a murder taxi just interrupting normal game play (by that I mean doing a great job distracting my team from the actual objective). Then I just end that game of tag early. However, even the better tanks take 3+ shots from my swarmer and with the cut in range, I see tanks making a HUGE comeback. I'm interested to see how the turret ammo will come into play. It could create spawncamps for swarmers near supply depots. Or create more swarmers targeting supply depots to deprive a vehicle. DS, in my opinion, were never meant to be killed by a swarmer. The best I could do was scare it off and sometimes I think that's all you really need. I greatly enjoy looking up and seeing two DS going head to head. Feels more like a full on war instead of a fun pee shooter. I'm sorry, but you've ruined the emperor's groove.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 1859	Posted - 2013.12.16 15:18:00 - [48] - Quote I have updated Swarm Launcher tactics. I explain how to deal with cool-downs. I also have removed any references I could find to soloing tanks. It may still be a little optimistic considering the current state of swarm launchers, but I donGÇÖt want to rewrite it for the current situation and then have to rewrite it again when Swarm Launchers get a buff. The tactics are solid, it is just that they would work a whole lot better if the Swarm Launcher was not so under powered. Edit: I would like to see the following changes: Swarm missile damage should be buffed from 220 to 250 per missile (down from 330 in 1.6). Swarm Launcher lock range should be buffed from 175m to 200m (down from 400m in 1.6). I think that this would still leave the Swarm Launcher underpowered, but it is better to take a small step and then reevaluate, than to take too big a step and end up back were we were in 1.6.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 1883	Posted - 2013.12.17 12:59:00 - [49] - Quote My analysis of the Swarm Launcher in 1.7: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1618156#post1618156 Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else, there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 2426	Posted - 2014.02.06 19:55:00 - [50] - Quote This had reached page 8 and was well on its way to being locked for inactivity, which in itself is a commentary on the importance of Swarm Launchers in 1.7. Being an optimist I am going to assume that I will need to update this guide with some new numbers in 1.8, so here is a bump to keep it from getting locked. It is just a hassle having to put in a petition to unlock a guide so I can update it. Fox Gaden: DUST Wall of Fame, 2014

Bradric Banewolf D3M3NT3D M1NDZ The Umbra Combine 131	Posted - 2014.02.15 18:06:00 - [51] - Quote Nice! You have done extensive work on these guides, and specifically this one. As a pro warmer I can say say your guide is dead on! I had to learn all of this the hard way as you did, so seeing this put together for new players is awesome! Great work bro! "Anybody order chaos?"
bogeyman m Learning Coalition College 106	Posted - 2014.02.20 11:45:00 - [52] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: I have updated Swarm Launcher tactics. I explain how to deal with cool-downs. I also have removed any references I could find to soloing tanks. It may still be a little optimistic considering the current state of swarm launchers, but I donGÇÖt want to rewrite it for the current situation and then have to rewrite it again when Swarm Launchers get a buff. The tactics are solid, it is just that they would work a whole lot better if the Swarm Launcher was not so under powered. Edit: I would like to see the following changes: Swarm missile damage should be buffed from 220 to 250 per missile (down from 330 in 1.6). Swarm Launcher lock range should be buffed from 175m to 200m (down from 400m in 1.6). I think that this would still leave the Swarm Launcher underpowered, but it is better to take a small step and then reevaluate, than to take too big a step and end up back were we were in 1.6. ^This^ plus faster missile speeds (+10% or so) and range dependant lock times... A computer-guided smart missile should be able to lock onto a target faster when it is closer.
lee corwood Knights Of Ender Galactic Skyfleet Empire 522	Posted - 2014.02.24 15:40:00 - [53] - Quote Missile speed is by far the biggest want from me. I get angry seeing tanks literally outrun my missiles. That being said, since 1.7 dropped, I haven't really brought my proto swarmer out at all. I can see how it would be useful in tag team of 2-3. If I had a forger with me, we might could drop it alone if he wasn't paying attention, but most of the time, the tank can still flee before dying and return fairly quickly with almost full health. Even if he was in wide open space, an RR is likely to take us down before we can finish the job. Therefore, I found 2 things working best for me since 1.7: 1. Have a Forger/Swarmer or both if you like at one end of the map, hopefully in an area with buildings and a set entrance/exit. Have another (or change suits in a step prior) drop proximity mines on the pathway out. That way, as you cause damage and they try to flee, it takes them out. 2. The other I find works only when someone will eventually damage the tank. I take my scouty and flank the tank. I slap 3 REs on its rear or side and then hide. Once it gets damaged and tries to flee, I detonate before it has time to heal. This has been the most successful since 1.7 for me. I don't even target LAVs anymore as they are usually too fast and running through too much cover. I have, however, taken out quite a few turrets. Great post, Fox! Minmatar Logisis \| Heavy lover. Come get some badass Band-Aids from this chick
MostFeared Beast The Southern Legion League of Infamy 8	Posted - 2014.04.03 04:43:00 - [54] - Quote Just got into the swarm launchers!!!!!!
Mojo XXXIII Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 0	Posted - 2014.04.12 16:34:00 - [55] - Quote Great guide, very helpful!
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 2925	Posted - 2014.04.13 11:07:00 - [56] - Quote Mojo XXXIII wrote: Great guide, very helpful! I am working on updating it. I will probably post the updates sometime this coming week. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 2928	Posted - 2014.04.14 16:38:00 - [57] - Quote I have completely rewritten this guide to adapt to the changes which came with patches 1.7 and 1.8, as well as later hot fixes. Swarm Launcher tactics have gone through a substantial evolution, which has resulted in the guide being quite a bit longer than it was initially. Even after juggling things around I am still approaching the character limit on all three posts. Thankfully I reserved a post, as I will need to use it if I add anything more. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Miles O'Rourke Knights of Eternal Darkness League of Infamy 10	Posted - 2014.04.27 23:27:00 - [58] - Quote As always Fox, excellent advice. I used to be a Squad Lead like you, but then I took a Thale's to the knee.
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property 9322	Posted - 2014.06.11 05:19:00 - [59] - Quote I've been using the Swarm Launcher for over a year, and there are still some new things that I learned from this guide. Nice work Fox. Amarrians would prefer you be faithful... I'd rather you be logical. -HAND
ratamaq doc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 667	Posted - 2014.06.22 17:57:00 - [60] - Quote Something to add you can credit Eko Sol for pointing out somewhere. If you have a good line of site, turn around completely shooting you first Volley backwards then your second look straight at the target. This reduces the time between first and second impact giving the target less time to react. Works good on Dropships. Very nice write up. Looking at how old it is, I wish I'd known about it sooner. YouTube



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