DUST Search - CCP & Sony QA are the model for how not to do Quality Assurance, restructure...

TERMINALANCE wrote:

-What it is
Quality assurance (QA) refers to the engineering activities implemented in a quality system so that requirements for a product or service will be fulfilled. It is the systematic measurement, comparison with a standard, monitoring of processes and an associated feedback loop that confers error prevention. This can be contrasted with quality control, which is focused on process outputs.

Two principles included in QA are: "Fit for purpose", the product should be suitable for the intended purpose; and "Right first time", mistakes should be eliminated. QA includes management of the quality of raw materials, assemblies, products and components, services related to production, and management, production and inspection processes.
Suitable quality is determined by product users, clients or customers, not by society in general. It is not related to cost and adjectives or descriptors such "high" and "poor" are not applicable. For example, a low priced product may be viewed as having high quality because it is disposable where another may be viewed as having poor quality because it is not disposable.
Stolen from Wiki

-Why change is needed
CCP QA does not meet ANY of the requirements of QA. Who ever is in charge of QA and their link to the Devs needs to be restructured at this point. They are NOT doing their job, its as simple as that. Results! they do NOT produce them.

List of problems CCP could have fixed before reaching the player (Tell me more so i can add them!)

NO SISI SERVER (even CCP EVE knows they need one but i guess Dust QA is special (DERP!)
Terrain LOD Glitches
Terrain invisible walls
Terrain stickiness and movement flaws (cant walk certain places without hickups)
Major weapon imbalance (LR and MD not working as intended)
RDV's with no AI collision avoidance.
THE ISK BUG (how do you manage to do that BTW?!)
Passive booster bug
Drop uplinks can go in walls
Splash damage from explosions failing to do any damage even to you from your own grenades while standing right on top of them
Poor hit detection (valve could do it since CS source what is your excuse exactly?)
Racial suits that bonuses are useless or do not actually work.
Skills that do not work as intended or provide no bonus even though one is stated
Almost every event CCP has run has had some sort of hiccup
You can fall through floors
Poor FPS in PC
Memory leaks around every corner
Oceania servers wont do skirmish or domination

HELP ME ADD MORE!
Basically Whoever Set up DUST 514 Dev team as well as their HR for setting up this development studio had 0 Idea what they where doing.

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TERMINALANCE Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 70	Posted - 2013.05.30 15:31:00 - [1] - Quote -What it is Quality assurance (QA) refers to the engineering activities implemented in a quality system so that requirements for a product or service will be fulfilled. It is the systematic measurement, comparison with a standard, monitoring of processes and an associated feedback loop that confers error prevention. This can be contrasted with quality control, which is focused on process outputs. Two principles included in QA are: "Fit for purpose", the product should be suitable for the intended purpose; and "Right first time", mistakes should be eliminated. QA includes management of the quality of raw materials, assemblies, products and components, services related to production, and management, production and inspection processes. Suitable quality is determined by product users, clients or customers, not by society in general. It is not related to cost and adjectives or descriptors such "high" and "poor" are not applicable. For example, a low priced product may be viewed as having high quality because it is disposable where another may be viewed as having poor quality because it is not disposable. Stolen from Wiki -Why change is needed CCP QA does not meet ANY of the requirements of QA. Who ever is in charge of QA and their link to the Devs needs to be restructured at this point. They are NOT doing their job, its as simple as that. Results! they do NOT produce them. List of problems CCP could have fixed before reaching the player (Tell me more so i can add them!) NO SISI SERVER (even CCP EVE knows they need one but i guess Dust QA is special (DERP!) Terrain LOD Glitches Terrain invisible walls Terrain stickiness and movement flaws (cant walk certain places without hickups) Major weapon imbalance (LR and MD not working as intended) RDV's with no AI collision avoidance. THE ISK BUG (how do you manage to do that BTW?!) Passive booster bug Drop uplinks can go in walls Splash damage from explosions failing to do any damage even to you from your own grenades while standing right on top of them Poor hit detection (valve could do it since CS source what is your excuse exactly?) Racial suits that bonuses are useless or do not actually work. Skills that do not work as intended or provide no bonus even though one is stated Almost every event CCP has run has had some sort of hiccup You can fall through floors Poor FPS in PC Memory leaks around every corner Oceania servers wont do skirmish or domination HELP ME ADD MORE! Basically Whoever Set up DUST 514 Dev team as well as their HR for setting up this development studio had 0 Idea what they where doing.
TERMINALANCE Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 72	Posted - 2013.05.30 22:39:00 - [2] - Quote bump
hooc order Deep Space Republic Gentlemen's Agreement 155	Posted - 2013.05.30 23:01:00 - [3] - Quote And what are good examples? Activision with CoD? (complete corporate disaster yet very slick game and huge success) Mojang with Minecraft? (no real corporation, lots of weird bugs and quirks and on again off again features...HUGE success) Bethesda Softworks with Skyrim? (who the hells knows what the hell went on in this games development because it was a buggy pile of crap and probably one of the most fun games i have played of its type ever. Huge success.) To be honest QA in the video game industry is bullsh*t. Either it is a good game or it isn't and QA or lack of QA seems to have to have nothing to do with it.
GAYAR Snipacus Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 10	Posted - 2013.05.30 23:08:00 - [4] - Quote TERMINALANCE wrote: -What it is Quality assurance (QA) refers to the engineering activities implemented in a quality system so that requirements for a product or service will be fulfilled. It is the systematic measurement, comparison with a standard, monitoring of processes and an associated feedback loop that confers error prevention. This can be contrasted with quality control, which is focused on process outputs. Two principles included in QA are: "Fit for purpose", the product should be suitable for the intended purpose; and "Right first time", mistakes should be eliminated. QA includes management of the quality of raw materials, assemblies, products and components, services related to production, and management, production and inspection processes. Suitable quality is determined by product users, clients or customers, not by society in general. It is not related to cost and adjectives or descriptors such "high" and "poor" are not applicable. For example, a low priced product may be viewed as having high quality because it is disposable where another may be viewed as having poor quality because it is not disposable. Stolen from Wiki -Why change is needed CCP QA does not meet ANY of the requirements of QA. Who ever is in charge of QA and their link to the Devs needs to be restructured at this point. They are NOT doing their job, its as simple as that. Results! they do NOT produce them. List of problems CCP could have fixed before reaching the player (Tell me more so i can add them!) NO SISI SERVER (even CCP EVE knows they need one but i guess Dust QA is special (DERP!) Terrain LOD Glitches Terrain invisible walls Terrain stickiness and movement flaws (cant walk certain places without hickups) Major weapon imbalance (LR and MD not working as intended) RDV's with no AI collision avoidance. THE ISK BUG (how do you manage to do that BTW?!) Passive booster bug Drop uplinks can go in walls Splash damage from explosions failing to do any damage even to you from your own grenades while standing right on top of them Poor hit detection (valve could do it since CS source what is your excuse exactly?) Racial suits that bonuses are useless or do not actually work. Skills that do not work as intended or provide no bonus even though one is stated Almost every event CCP has run has had some sort of hiccup You can fall through floors Poor FPS in PC Memory leaks around every corner Oceania servers wont do skirmish or domination HELP ME ADD MORE! Basically Whoever Set up DUST 514 Dev team as well as their HR for setting up this development studio had 0 Idea what they where doing. sony qa only tests first party requirements, the rest mainly is up to CCP
Matakage WildCard Ninja Clan 257	Posted - 2013.05.30 23:09:00 - [5] - Quote All of those problems you list actually sound pretty common for a work-in-progress game such as Dust 514. Let me point out some major differences between Dust 514 and other FPS games: No huge budget like the triple-A FPS titles. No unique, custom engine (Just the old Unreal engine) Actually, this is a pretty short list, because everything else I can think of has to do with the first bullet point -- lack of budget. They can't get things done as quickly without a bigger team and more money. I'm willing to cut them slack for that. However, one point I keep bringing up again and again is that this game will be compared to the triple-A CoD's and Battlefields whether this development team or it's EVE Online fanboys like it or not. Getting core game mechanics working smoothly is #1 priority. All the extra features that set Dust 514 apart from the crowd won't be given the chance to shine if new players are initially turned off by the core issues.
Mobius Wyvern BetaMax. CRONOS. 1708	Posted - 2013.05.30 23:17:00 - [6] - Quote Matakage wrote: All of those problems you list actually sound pretty common for a work-in-progress game such as Dust 514. Let me point out some major differences between Dust 514 and other FPS games: No huge budget like the triple-A FPS titles. No unique, custom engine (Just the old Unreal engine) Actually, this is a pretty short list, because everything else I can think of has to do with the first bullet point -- lack of budget. They can't get things done as quickly without a bigger team and more money. I'm willing to cut them slack for that. However, one point I keep bringing up again and again is that this game will be compared to the triple-A CoD's and Battlefields whether this development team or it's EVE Online fanboys like it or not. Getting core game mechanics working smoothly is #1 priority. All the extra features that set Dust 514 apart from the crowd won't be given the chance to shine if new players are initially turned off by the core issues. As much as everyone love to accuse CCP of rolling in money, that isn't exactly the case, especially considering their nation's economy right now. Why do you think they do so many charitable functions and sponsor so many locals like HaZaR and Gunnar Nelson, and have received so many awards for export from their government? Hilmar mentioned before that part of why CCP was so popular with cab drivers in their home city is because FanFest being in the winter brought them a massive influx of much needed income where they would normally have almost no passengers. This is still somewhat true to this day. CCP doesn't have hundreds of millions of dollars to sink into every title they produce, and they don't have a team of hundreds working on Dust. If I recall correctly, then have 60-70 Devs in Shanghai at the most. They're doing what they can with what they have, and I'd still say they've done a better job than the trainwreck that Planetside 2 was when it released, and in many ways still is.
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 98	Posted - 2013.05.30 23:18:00 - [7] - Quote Here CCP, have an industry secret for free: If you implement a feature, file a QA ticket to make sure the implementation is checked for numerical accuracy and functionality. Document the intended behavior in the ticket in detail. If your programmers document the intended behavior before they implement something this isn't even additional work and the documentation will come in handy when you have to touch-up the code a few months later. Do this for everything you change. Consider it like proof-reading a book before it gets printed.
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 210	Posted - 2013.05.31 04:41:00 - [8] - Quote It's free to play. Stop complaining
Zekain K Expert Intervention Caldari State 78	Posted - 2013.05.31 04:46:00 - [9] - Quote there's another passive booster bug?
The Robot Devil BetaMax. CRONOS. 330	Posted - 2013.05.31 04:52:00 - [10] - Quote They way I understand SONY is that they test to ensure for hacking and hardware problem not the functionality of the game. If the game is broken then it is the developers fault because SONY produces electronics, they own studios but they make electronics. If you have never written software then your view and ideas of the problem are based off of emotion and ignorance. If you have programmed software then you should understand how hard it is to do and how easily unexpected things can happen and how long it takes to troubleshoot a bug. Get down off of your soap box filled with emotion and ignorance and try to contribute to civil discussions and try to keep these kinds of post to yourself.

Ae Quitas Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack 0	Posted - 2013.05.31 07:28:00 - [11] - Quote TERMINALANCE wrote: -What it is Quality assurance (QA) refers to the engineering activities implemented in a quality system so that requirements for a product or service will be fulfilled. It is the systematic measurement, comparison with a standard, monitoring of processes and an associated feedback loop that confers error prevention. This can be contrasted with quality control, which is focused on process outputs. Two principles included in QA are: "Fit for purpose", the product should be suitable for the intended purpose; and "Right first time", mistakes should be eliminated. QA includes management of the quality of raw materials, assemblies, products and components, services related to production, and management, production and inspection processes. Suitable quality is determined by product users, clients or customers, not by society in general. It is not related to cost and adjectives or descriptors such "high" and "poor" are not applicable. For example, a low priced product may be viewed as having high quality because it is disposable where another may be viewed as having poor quality because it is not disposable. Stolen from Wiki -Why change is needed CCP QA does not meet ANY of the requirements of QA. Who ever is in charge of QA and their link to the Devs needs to be restructured at this point. They are NOT doing their job, its as simple as that. Results! they do NOT produce them. List of problems CCP could have fixed before reaching the player (Tell me more so i can add them!) NO SISI SERVER (even CCP EVE knows they need one but i guess Dust QA is special (DERP!) Terrain LOD Glitches Terrain invisible walls Terrain stickiness and movement flaws (cant walk certain places without hickups) Major weapon imbalance (LR and MD not working as intended) RDV's with no AI collision avoidance. THE ISK BUG (how do you manage to do that BTW?!) Passive booster bug Drop uplinks can go in walls Splash damage from explosions failing to do any damage even to you from your own grenades while standing right on top of them Poor hit detection (valve could do it since CS source what is your excuse exactly?) Racial suits that bonuses are useless or do not actually work. Skills that do not work as intended or provide no bonus even though one is stated Almost every event CCP has run has had some sort of hiccup You can fall through floors Poor FPS in PC Memory leaks around every corner Oceania servers wont do skirmish or domination HELP ME ADD MORE! Basically Whoever Set up DUST 514 Dev team as well as their HR for setting up this development studio had 0 Idea what they where doing. Agree! Im working as an enigneer that is mainly working with QA. We use the tools from APQP - PPAP which should be used for developing games as well. But the game industry has not come so far yet it seems. The customer does not count in the way it has been thought for automotive industries in the game industries. Even if it would make sense. Just to do D-FMEA and P-FMEA (Design-Failure-Mode-And-Effective-Analysis/ Process-Failure-Mode-And-Effective-Analysis) could have solved 99% of the issues already during design and beta phase. But that is what no one does today. They call it beta, to get atleast some feedback. Most of the beta invited does not care at all and just enjoy gameplay. I was participating in the Closed Beta for Killzone 1 and 2. Here i used most of the time on wrinting reports, takeing videos or prepared other methods for representing my findings. Companys like EA etc are not doing things propably since the money counts. The development phase is stricted to a yearly release cycle and what matters is to do copy and paste to reach the release targets. I will never forget how bad QA was on Battlefield Bad Company. BC 1 - Squad making did not work, Voice Chat was broken - Took them 4 month to fix BC 2 - Squad making did not work, Voice Chat was broken - Took them 2 month to fix BF3 - Squad making did not work. Voice Chat was broken - Took them 2 month to fix But they did not care about preventing returning issues, because they earned money anyway. No i would not call CCP as huge as EA, but i would rather recommend to think about how to prevent game development failure appearing for end customers. Better Quality - Less failures - Satisfied Customer - Increases Amount Of Customers - Increases intake That easy!
Vrain Matari ZionTCD Unclaimed. 554	Posted - 2013.05.31 13:51:00 - [12] - Quote Matakage wrote: All of those problems you list actually sound pretty common for a work-in-progress game such as Dust 514. Let me point out some major differences between Dust 514 and other FPS games: No huge budget like the triple-A FPS titles. No unique, custom engine (Just the old Unreal engine) Actually, this is a pretty short list, because everything else I can think of has to do with the first bullet point -- lack of budget. They can't get things done as quickly without a bigger team and more money. I'm willing to cut them slack for that. However, one point I keep bringing up again and again is that this game will be compared to the triple-A CoD's and Battlefields whether this development team or it's EVE Online fanboys like it or not. Getting core game mechanics working smoothly is #1 priority. All the extra features that set Dust 514 apart from the crowd won't be given the chance to shine if new players are initially turned off by the core issues. +1. You nailed it bro. Core fps gameplay is the heart of DUST. It's not an add-on, it's not a new window through which to showcase New Eden, it is not secondary to sov mechanics or the metagame. In the short and long term, core mechanics are life & death for DUST 514. In the long run, the deep connection to New Eden will be everything, but without foundations the connection will not materialize. CCP is spending it's 'cool idea' intellectual capital at a furious rate by trying to shore up their weak fps dollar with metagame window dressing. In the end, that will fool exactly nobody.


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