Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
3142
   |
Posted - 2013.05.30 12:51:00 -
[1] - Quote
OK... I'm not the greatest, and I'm not running all top-level gear.
Most of the time, I run a 250,000 ISK half-BPO Sica. It's often tough, especially when I don't have squadmates backing me up, but I can keep it alive more often than not - and even when it dies, it's usually paid for itself in the same match.
I also have a Gunnlogi, but I save it for special occasions.
We have IWS complaining that vehicle discussions (and AV discussions) aren't being handled right. So lets work on that. What's REALLY wrong here? As mentioned, I'm not the best, so I want this to be open discussion for HIGH-LEVEL vehicle players. DEDICATED drivers, the guys with Prototype LAVs and multi-million SP HAVs. DEDICATED pilots, who have been playing consistently, and have all their SP poured into their vehicle of choice.
HAVs:
This is the majority of my experience, and it's a big deal. There are problems. The main one is that we only really have 2 tiers of tank. Militia and not-quite-Advanced. Enforcers lose a lot for their benefits. They're cool, but they aren't practical for how most people expect to view tanks. They're a rear-line support tank, not a front-line combat vehicle, even with infantry support.
Look at the non-Enforcer Caldari HAVs as an example.
Sica: Miliita. Baseline everything.
Gunnlogi: Extra HP and slots, but only minimal extra PG/CPU.
This contrasts messily with Dropsuits. You get Militia, then Standard is Militia + PG/CPU. Same HP, same slot layout, but a little more fitting capacity so you can make it better. It makes sense for higher-tier tanks to get a bit more HP, but I think we need a Standard HAV that has the same as the Militia variant of EVERYTHING except PG/CPU. Make it a slightly easier-to-fit version, and fit it into a price point somewhere between the Sica/Soma and the Gunnlogi/Madrugar. Give them about the PG/CPU levels those current "Standard" HAVs have. Then bump those tanks up a little on their fitting capacity, but keep the current price point and slot layout. Now we have a legitimate line of Militia/Standard/Advanced/??? - Oh yeah, we're still missing Prototype tanks.
Seriously, Why are there no Prototype HAVs? There's Proto AV, but no Proto targets for them to aim for. Enforcers are no more of a "Protoype" level option than Standard LLAVs. They're a low-tier side-grade, and that's what they're MEANT to be. Where are the high-level Enforcers? Where are the actual Prototype tanks? We're missing important things here, and it needs to be looked at. We need to be able to skill up and actually get what we've skilled up for.
Another issue, though a lesser one, is control. I love the R2 accelerate, L2 reverse control scheme. It feels MUCH more natural than using the stick for movement and turning. Why can't I use it for tracked vehicles? I want to have my HAV driving comfortably, I want to be able to turn comfortably, I want to feel like I have CONTROL OF MY VEHICLE. Right now, I don't. I struggle more with a less-than-ideal control scheme than I do with the threat of enemies. LAVs get a control scheme that I would love to have on my tanks, but I can't do it. Where's that option? But really, this boils down to a lack of real controller remapping. Presets aren't the ideal solution anyway though, we really should have FULL remapping options.
LAVs:
I barely have any experience with LAVs beyond Militia-level, except in my capacity as an AV player, so I don't have a lot to say here.
I think there are issues with LAVs from both perspectives. The most obvious two are the lack of impact damage to LAVs when they run people over like it's LAVmageddon, and the inability for turrets to actually provide any real benefit at speed. Turrets are definitely a LOT better than they used to be, but they're still not in a great spot yet. There are too many issues, idosyncracies, and blatant "WTF?" moments even after the latest round of "fixes" they've received.
There's also the issue of LAVs being given a massive 60% HP boost. They could have done with maybe a 40% increase AT MOST. Nobody knows where the 60% came from, even the people who used to drive them regularly. Even with that buff, I can kill most LAVs pretty fast with my Militia Swarm Launcher. I've seen the same LAV I two-shotted go through several AV Grenades and keep driving. AV Grenades were OP before, the weakest of them could one-shot the top-tier LAVs, and that wasn't right. But the solution is NOT to buff LAV health, the solution SHOULD have been a NERF to AV Grenades, which still do far more than reasonable damage compared with other AV options. Drop the HP back a bit on LAVs - maybe turn that 60% into a 30 or 40%, then do what SHOULD have been done to balance them against AV Grenades, and rebalance the GRENADES so you're not pointlessly weakening the other, formerly-reasonable AV options.
Dropships:
Again, I don't have enough experience to call myself an authority here, but I've been a gunner quite often in a friend's Droships (Standard, Logistics and Assault Dropships with various fittings), and I know a lot about the details of the fittings being used. I've seen how fast a good Forge Gunner can drop even the most heavily-tanked LDS, and the best ADS can rarely survive a second hit, so you need to make sure that second hit never comes. It's not enough. Even the highest-tier Logi Dropship can barely take a second Forge hit when you're up against well-fitted Militia gear.
They should really have seen at least SOMETHING of the HP boost all other vehicles were given. I won't even argue in favour of giving them the full 25%. But is 15% too much? Really?
Anyway, these are my opinions, and my experiences to back them up. If you're not talking from legitimate high-level experience on these issues, please, PLEASE make a point of explaining how much experience you have, and in what capacity. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
3144
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 13:23:00 -
[2] - Quote
EnglishSnake wrote:How many threads have we had on vehicles with more than enough info?
Its just that IWS chooses to ignore it with stupid comments like 'learn to fly' and making threats like 'he wont tell CCP and say everything is okay'
The guy is a ******* idiot
He's asking for serious feedback, and saying he's willing to listen if we're willing to keep the conversation relevant.
Please try to do so, and we can take him at his word. If he doesn't live up to it, that's on him. If you aren't willing or able to provide constructive feedback, then you're not giving CCP or IWS anything worth listening to. If you prove him right instead of giving him the benefit odf the doubt, there won't be any good reason for your opinion to be listened to, because all you're doing is throwing personal attacks into an otherwise productive thread.
Don't focus on him, focus on the ACTUAL PROBLEMS WITH THE GAME. I know you're a good tank driver, and I know you have a lot of experience. You should be able to help a lot more than just whining about a CPM who might actually be open to listening when we present our complaints seriously. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
3156
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 08:34:00 -
[4] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I mean it doesn't take 8 million skill points into vehicles to see controls are a bit fubared and in dire need of improvements. Large Missile Launchers are doing something funny when trying to shoot into the center line (the launcher looks like its playing patty cake or something), or watching what other people do in dealing with the problems and seeing them succeed or fail at it, along with dozens of success and failures involving vehicles. Overall I feel that militia is still a decent test platform for the environment because the issues that the advanced vehicle pilots can suffer can still be easily replicated at a more amplified level so to say. I mean there is no magic skill level that makes a problem disappear or appear as you level it up. I mean if a forge gun is one two shooting an ADS what chances does the militia dropship have?
There are a lot of problems you CAN identify with Militia gear.
Not saying there aren't.
But there are problems which DO only become apparent when you try running higher-grade tanks - and it's particularly a problem with tanks. LAVs also show off the silliness of their 60% HP buff better when you're at higher levels, but HAVs show their inability to compete at that point.
For HAVs, we have:
Militia: The Sica and the Soma are decent for Militia gear. Well-balanced and fair. With a few Standard items thrown into a fit, you can build something relatively good, but it's still limiting, and those non-Militia modules boost the price pretty fast even though they're only Standard (as they should).
Standard: We have no Standard. We have a half-breed Standard/Advanced with the PG and CPU capacity that a Standard HAV should have, but with the extra slots, HP and cost of an Advanced tank. BUT WE DON'T HAVE THE FITTING CAPACITY TO USE IT RIGHT. If we don't get anything remotely resembling decent fitting skills (like Dropsuits have), then we need to at least have competently-designed tanks that allow for a decent level of gear to actually be fitted.
Advanced: We have no advanced either. We have something that's trying to be Advanced with Standard fitting capabilities, so you can't actually load it with a full complement of Advanced gear.
Prototype: NOTHING.
Specialist variants: At the moment, we have the Enforcers, which are a "glass cannon" style tank. I don't use them, because that's not my playstyle. They also seem to have their own unique set of issues that only someone who skills into them will really be able to comment on. I'm holding out for a defense-focused tank, because that would better suit how I want to run my tanks. HAVs that get a bonus to Shield Extenders or Armour Plates (depending which version you get) would be nice. Or tanks with a heavy HP/resistance buff, but at the cost of firepower or range or something.
Also on Enforcers, there's only one of each race. They don't scale. We have a Standard Specialist, and no Advanced or Prototype. We're missing almost our entire HAV range. |