DUST Search - The Relationship between ISK, SP and Gameplay

Vyzion Eyri wrote:

GLiMPSE X wrote:

This game might not be fore you.

There isn't an 'obscene' advantage to be had after investing a bit of time in the game. 5 mil, specialized sp, can compete just fine with 10-15 mil. Things curve very hard towards the upper end of skills.

I quite enjoy the need to play to build up sp to unlock new things. Giving me something to work for so I can't see everything there is to do in a month and be done with the game.

Progression is what Dust is about, you take that away and you might as well play a different game.

Okay, I let myself get carried away and my main point was contradicted a little.

Ignore the rambling introduction, I'll delete it later if I have to, and focus on my proposals.

You enjoy building up SP to unlock new things? Good. Now, you keep building up SP. Lets say for... 5 years? CCP projected DUST a decade into the future. I'm looking with them towards that vision, and with this system, you'll find there won't be anything to work for in a couple of years, let alone 10.


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Jathniel G I A N T EoN. 394	Posted - 2013.05.30 11:00:00 - [1] - Quote The OP is right. You need only have 15 million or so SP, and be spec'd as an assault or logi. Game over. You win. Everything else is just there to be experimented with. Just enough SP to use an AR, have a good suit with a nice set of modules, and moderate AV capability. Done. Within 15 million SP, a basic player can come, get what he needs to win, and leave. ISK is irrelevant in the current context. People just field proto with impunity. It should hurt as bad to lose proto suits in DUST, as much as it does to lose a Battleship or greater in EVE.
Jathniel G I A N T EoN. 394	Posted - 2013.05.30 11:11:00 - [2] - Quote I used to be so focused on just saving cash, and I took pride in knocking down players using protosuits, making sure to shoot their corpse to ensure it's lost. But they just keep coming back with proto. Over and over. By the next match, they have already forgotten about all the protosuits I've taken from them. Meanwhile, they are padding KDR and just trucking along through protosuits with impunity. Meanwhile what have I done by being so fiscally responsible/tactical? Nothing, but see my own KDR gradually drop, while proto-spammers just wreck games so quickly that they inevitably make back all the money I steal from them. It's at the point, that I don't care anymore. I just slap on the flavor-of-the-month, and spam whatever the fk is OP/imbalanced, and proto-stomp like any other giddy-headed elitist. There is no real Risk/Reward system in Dust currently. Planetary Conquest matches should be REAL and RAW wars of attrition. You field proto to defend/attack a district, and the ISK damages inflicted on both ends should be enormous and painful. Even if you keep on successfully defending a district.... the real question would be, "Can you afford to keep on defending that district?" That question isn't even remotely asked.
Jathniel G I A N T EoN. 394	Posted - 2013.05.30 11:51:00 - [3] - Quote Vyzion Eyri wrote: GLiMPSE X wrote: This game might not be fore you. There isn't an 'obscene' advantage to be had after investing a bit of time in the game. 5 mil, specialized sp, can compete just fine with 10-15 mil. Things curve very hard towards the upper end of skills. I quite enjoy the need to play to build up sp to unlock new things. Giving me something to work for so I can't see everything there is to do in a month and be done with the game. Progression is what Dust is about, you take that away and you might as well play a different game. Okay, I let myself get carried away and my main point was contradicted a little. Ignore the rambling introduction, I'll delete it later if I have to, and focus on my proposals. You enjoy building up SP to unlock new things? Good. Now, you keep building up SP. Lets say for... 5 years? CCP projected DUST a decade into the future. I'm looking with them towards that vision, and with this system, you'll find there won't be anything to work for in a couple of years, let alone 10. No. I saw no contradictions. With how things are working currently. The level of content does not equal the projected game lifetime. Just as was pointed out. Someone is fully competitive in PVP with just several million SP. So that's it. They are done. They can compete just fine in PVP, and they have the build that they want (generally an assault, why bother use anything else?). So all the extra SP is just to toy around with. They sign on, attack and defend some districts. Crush some newberries. Then log out. Game. You pointed out that more than PVP must be introduced to the game. That's a big obvious. I see a skill branch for Corporation control. I won't be putting any SP into that for the foreseeable future. What else, not combat related is there? PVE? God forbid we keep mentioning that, players will blow horns and say CCP has priorities it needs to take care of. We've been ignoring PVE content for a year now. Honestly, it's not PVP alone that is going to carry Dust into the future. It's how PVP is maintained through PVE mechanics and the connection that they both have to EVE lore that will. You need to be able to come into the game world, and watch the news, so to speak. Or enter the game world, and look at the list of contracts available... Factional Warfare is a very good step in the right direction, but more is needed. What if players don't really want to PVP? What if they want to spend their time RPing as drone hunters? And collecting drops from that activity in different districts to sell on the Player Market? The significance that ISK has to the game has to be increased in some way. Tool creation, drones, crafting, player markets, market control. The AR can't be the means to every possible end.
Jathniel G I A N T EoN. 398	Posted - 2013.05.30 12:10:00 - [4] - Quote Daedric Lothar wrote: Vyzion Eyri wrote: SP, however, due to the system through which we gain it, cannot be moderated to allow new players to overcome the disadvantage they face when beginning the game years after our bitter old veterans have. This same point gets brought up in EVE all the time and it is actually worse there because there are so many side skills that affect your ship. But here, honeslty... All you need is a core set of skills and you are on the same page as all the Vets. Proto Armor, Max Complement Skills like Armor, Shield, Shield Extender, Max Weapon stat and Weapon Damage stat. I would say maxed grenade, but the Fused Grenades dont need skills to use....... That is 6 skills you need capped to be really competitive. Its not perfect, but its close enough to put you on the same page as any vet What's that... roughly 5-8mil skill points? That can't be gained overnight, but it can still be gained fairly quickly. They get that, and unless they really want to run a corporation, there's not much left in the game to keep them entertained.