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Mr PurpSicle
D3LTA FORC3 Orion Empire
44
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Posted - 2013.05.30 03:14:00 -
[1] - Quote
But most aren't gonna like it and if it's been posted already, my bad for being lazy.
How about offer unlimited free respecs so the unbalanced classes/weapons will show themselves in a quantitative form.
Would have worked better in beta but CCP pissed that opportunity away. And I know marketing would be 100% against this. But just think outside the box for a bit. CCP could about other things while not having to put brainpower/money into figuring out how to balance the game. It WOULD work a hell of a lot better than listening to this forum to get the job done.
Discuss |
Ivy Ivanovic Ivanovski
Les Enfants Terribles Sk33t Fl33t
9
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Posted - 2013.05.30 03:17:00 -
[2] - Quote
No. |
ZeHealingHurts HurtingHeals
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
192
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Posted - 2013.05.30 03:18:00 -
[3] - Quote
Absolutely not.
Unlimited? FREE? |
KOBLAKA1
Opus Arcana Orion Empire
8
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Posted - 2013.05.30 03:21:00 -
[4] - Quote
Lol no why or why nots yet I see |
Iskandar Zul Karnain
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
583
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Posted - 2013.05.30 03:23:00 -
[5] - Quote
Mr PurpSicle wrote:hurr durr mur sp 'cause balance
Discuss You trollin |
Charlotte O'Dell
Molon Labe. League of Infamy
369
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Posted - 2013.05.30 06:26:00 -
[6] - Quote
Actually, if you think about it, it isn't a bad idea. CCP would be able to see what weapons are OP because everybody would spec into them. By making very small weekly nerfs, they would eventually know the found a balance when a relatively equal number of people specced into everything and STAYED there. Then we know every weapon is balanced. At that point, we get one more RESPEC, and thats it. No more changes to anything. This is honestly brilliant. No trollin'. |
Bubba Brown
Militaires Sans Jeux
118
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Posted - 2013.05.30 06:37:00 -
[7] - Quote
good lord no the ONLY respec you should EVER get is when you exit the battle academy, which is a suggestion i made a while ago |
Mr PurpSicle
D3LTA FORC3 Orion Empire
55
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Posted - 2013.05.30 20:59:00 -
[8] - Quote
Charlotte O'Dell wrote:Actually, if you think about it, it isn't a bad idea. CCP would be able to see what weapons are OP because everybody would spec into them. By making very small weekly nerfs, they would eventually know the found a balance when a relatively equal number of people specced into everything and STAYED there. Then we know every weapon is balanced. At that point, we get one more RESPEC, and thats it. No more changes to anything. This is honestly brilliant. No trollin'.
Yay a constructive response! Thanks for the vote of confidence. I like the idea of offering them until a balance is found. Satisfies the concept of balance and making good decisions with your SP. If only everyone made good posts like this.
I still want to see an educated post against the idea. Would like to hear the other side. |
Aesiron Kor-Azor
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
141
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 21:00:00 -
[9] - Quote
Mr PurpSicle wrote:But most aren't gonna like it and if it's been posted already, my bad for being lazy.
How about offer unlimited free respecs so the unbalanced classes/weapons will show themselves in a quantitative form.
Would have worked better in beta but CCP pissed that opportunity away. And I know marketing would be 100% against this. But just think outside the box for a bit. CCP could about other things while not having to put brainpower/money into figuring out how to balance the game. It WOULD work a hell of a lot better than listening to this forum to get the job done.
Discuss
EDIT: Discuss and say WHY or WHY NOT.
Troll? If so, good job, 10/10 - wow really good. |
Baldr Grimm
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
17
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Posted - 2013.05.30 21:04:00 -
[10] - Quote
It's not a terrible idea, but for a long time it would just be chaos and constant shifting to the FotM.
+1 for a respec after the academy, though. |
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Goat of Dover
IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback
190
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Posted - 2013.05.30 21:18:00 -
[11] - Quote
I say no.
Why is simple in my eyes. FOTM is not always OP. True it usually is but sometimes its is just something cool all the kids are doing. Also for most people to adjust something is to nerd it for balance. Well if you nerf the FTOM always you will be shooting Nerf guns soon enough.
I will not say it won't work because honestly it could I just think it will end in a negative way of balancing as opposed to a true balance of pros and cons. |
hooc order
Deep Space Republic Gentlemen's Agreement
153
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 21:22:00 -
[12] - Quote
How about just allowing unlimited respecs becouse the whole limited respec idea is ********?
While giving out unlimited respecs CCP should also dump the whole SP/level thing in the garbage. |
Matakage
WildCard Ninja Clan
254
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 21:23:00 -
[13] - Quote
While this makes sense from a game balance testing point of view, it doesn't make sense from the money making point of view.
And here's a hint about how the world works: Money-making trumps every other incentive anywhere. Any time. Any place.
Here's the "free Dust 514" scam, err.. "money-making business model," in case you didn't know:
1. You choose something you like. 2. You see something that seems better or realize your set-up is ineffective or broken 3. You must either grind for more SP to make up for your mistakes, or buy AUR for boosters/gear to make up for it faster.
See? If you let people re-spec for free and infinitely, then it takes away a big incentive for buying AUR, which is all CCP wants you to do in the long run.
By the way, I did spend money on Dust 514 once, and I don't regret it. 7-day booster during the 3x experience week? Yeah. Best decision I ever made in Dust 514. |
A'Real Fury
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
84
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Posted - 2013.05.30 21:30:00 -
[14] - Quote
No. Unlimited free Respecs means there are no consequences to your actions. For testing purposes it is a good idea but they could do the same thing by introducing the proto item or whatever level they prefer and it will take no skills to use and cost zero Isk but it will be removed from your assets/marketplace after 1 week so no stockpiles. |
Malkai Inos
The Vanguardians Orion Empire
194
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 21:49:00 -
[15] - Quote
The skillsystem is supposed to give weight to your decisions concerning role and gear. Increasing Specialization goes along with increasing effort and time required, increasing the cost of changes the further one goes. Bearing the consequences of ones decision is a central aspect of the new eden philosophy and is a worthwhile aspect for this reason alone but not exclusively.
The skilltree differs from many other progression systems in that it is not just a strife to power but rather a strife to flexibility. Once you max all relevant skills of one progression you can choose to invest into a second one, and then another and so on. This means that while the amount of SP to be had is in practical terms unlimited (there is a set amount but i don't expect it to be reached, possibly even through the game's lifespan) there is a limit of power any given combination of suit/gear can have. That allows (relatively) new players to compete with year old veterans if they full on specialize. The vet can still use his excess SP to change his role in a whimp, giving him the deserved advantage over the newer player but the total possible gap is limited.
A system without respecs can also dramatically shift the power between new and old blood, whenever new gear is released. New situations and fits emerge that veterans first have to spec into just as new players, giving the latter the chance to compete even early on if they're smart. That gives Vets a changing enviroment where staying on top is an ongoing cognitive effort to adapt to the changes.
If CCP were to introduce respecs, both concepts would break down.
Everyone could become everything without any time effort invested, giving flexibilty as a default and rendering excess SP near worthless, thus lowering replay value and, of course profitability (boosters, anyone?). It would reduce the skillsystem to a comparatively short powergrind and nothing else. No one likes grinding (i guess).
More dramatic even is the effect that Vets with enough SP can switch to whatever is new, OP or just interesting, depriving new blood of the chance to jump into the game and compet on the new content. This leads to a "why bother" effect where players avoid the game because they could never become relevant without millions of SP and leaves the high SP chars with an unchallengeable superiority and ultimately with boredom due to lack of competition.
TL;DR: NO |
Full Metal Kitten
Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation
637
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 21:53:00 -
[16] - Quote
Bubba Brown wrote:good lord no the ONLY respec you should EVER get is when you exit the battle academy, which is a suggestion i made a while ago I made this suggestion too, until I created an alt to try out the academy. I graduated after like 7 matches. Didn't have enough SP to make it worthwhile tbh.
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Malkai Inos
The Vanguardians Orion Empire
194
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 21:58:00 -
[17] - Quote
Full Metal Kitten wrote:Bubba Brown wrote:good lord no the ONLY respec you should EVER get is when you exit the battle academy, which is a suggestion i made a while ago I made this suggestion too, until I created an alt to try out the academy. I graduated after like 7 matches. Didn't have enough SP to make it worthwhile tbh. New players could get a limited Passive SP boost, say 2x to 1.5m gradually slowing until 2m where it goes to normal. This the makes the system more forgivable and allows for some experimenting.
|
Red Dot 24601-HA
S.e.V.e.N. Gentlemen's Agreement
81
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 22:14:00 -
[18] - Quote
Although the idea has some merit, I believe the time for that kind of "testing" is over. We are in the full release and not the beta now so our choices should bear consequence. Besides CCP has all of the data on the players, what they are using, what they are buying, and what is the most popular weapon at the moment. The TAC AR is very popular right now because it gets the job done quickly. (And you don't have to have a modded controller to use it) The scrambler rifle is really popular right now because everyone is shield tanking caldari suits. CCP can see these trends too they don't need us to scream this is OP! Those are the basic all purpose weapons in DUST. The laser rifles, mass drivers, and HMGs are really support role weapons and should not be the goto guns. I think the balance of the game is pretty good. The balance of players...not so much. But then again thats kinda what sets DUST apart isn't it?
In short, No free unlimited respecs. Possibly could consider a respec system where the more SP you have the more it costs to respec and then everytime you use a respec it multiplies the cost making it more costly as you go.
|
Onesimus Tarsus
GamersForChrist
245
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 22:24:00 -
[19] - Quote
A'Real Fury wrote:No. Unlimited free Respecs means there are no consequences to your actions. For testing purposes it is a good idea but they could do the same thing by introducing the proto item or whatever level they prefer and it will take no skills to use and cost zero Isk but it will be removed from your assets/marketplace after 1 week so no stockpiles.
Really quickly. What consequence are we so in love with? I mean, other than the almost solid assuredness that if you're not some spreadsheet nerd you're gonna misallocate something into total uselessness (or boredom), be stuck with it, and the eternal weapons nerf/buff cycle (which ALSO negates the notion of consequence) means that the train is a'comin' no matter how far off. And only a week to try new gear. C'mon. We've already firmly established in other threads that reviewers who put in that amount of time don't know anything about the first scintilla of this game. Make it six months. |
norttheantiv
Seraphim Auxiliaries CRONOS.
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 22:30:00 -
[20] - Quote
hey purp,
the one problem I have with respecs becoming normalized is that it takes the punishment for failing to plan out of the game. If you don't have the SP for your dream fit then grind, simple.
anyone who is given a respec now will have protocaltaclogi with a proto logi lav, and when they are nerfed will then demand the next flavor of the month.
Basically, any normalization of respecs is a bad idea for the game. |
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Malkai Inos
The Vanguardians Orion Empire
198
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 22:32:00 -
[21] - Quote
Onesimus Tarsus wrote:A'Real Fury wrote:No. Unlimited free Respecs means there are no consequences to your actions. For testing purposes it is a good idea but they could do the same thing by introducing the proto item or whatever level they prefer and it will take no skills to use and cost zero Isk but it will be removed from your assets/marketplace after 1 week so no stockpiles. Really quickly. What consequence are we so in love with? I mean, other than the almost solid assuredness that if you're not some spreadsheet nerd you're gonna misallocate something into total uselessness (or boredom), be stuck with it, and the eternal weapons nerf/buff cycle (which ALSO negates the notion of consequence) means that the train is a'comin' no matter how far off. And only a week to try new gear. C'mon. We've already firmly established in other threads that reviewers who put in that amount of time don't know anything about the first scintilla of this game. Make it six months. Not other than. Because. There are different types of game for different types of people. This one aims at the spreadsheet loving part of the FPS community.
Nerf cycles work as intended. You are supposed to like the gun itself, not it's numbers. And finally, the weapons lab has been confirmed at fanfest and since then on the forums aswell so you can soon(tm) test whatever you want, how often you want. |
2-Ton Twenty-One
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
640
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 22:34:00 -
[22] - Quote
Its a great Idea, would allow for large amounts of play testing in a short period of time and allow balancing to be accelerated. |
Mr PurpSicle
D3LTA FORC3 Orion Empire
58
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 00:46:00 -
[23] - Quote
Matakage wrote:While this makes sense from a game balance testing point of view, it doesn't make sense from the money making point of view.
And here's a hint about how the world works: Money-making trumps every other incentive anywhere. Any time. Any place.
Here's the "free Dust 514" scam, err.. "money-making business model," in case you didn't know:
1. You choose something you like. 2. You see something that seems better or realize your set-up is ineffective or broken 3. You must either grind for more SP to make up for your mistakes, or buy AUR for boosters/gear to make up for it faster.
See? If you let people re-spec for free and infinitely, then it takes away a big incentive for buying AUR, which is all CCP wants you to do in the long run.
By the way, I did spend money on Dust 514 once, and I don't regret it. 7-day booster during the 3x experience week? Yeah. Best decision I ever made in Dust 514.
And don't forget, there is always another great option to avoid having to re-spec: Be very very patient. I got the re-spec on May 7 like everyone else, and I didn't spend a single point until May 15. I researched the forums quite a bit before making my decision, and did experiments with the new gear on alternate characters. Optional re-spec? Never needed it.
Yes I see this being the number one reason for CCP not to like it. Even if they charged for them, I would see the cost of it being very high to offset the revenue lost in AUR sold. Good point. |
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