DUST Search - Armor plates reduce jumps

Harpyja wrote:

RECON BY FIRE wrote:

Harpyja wrote:

With max skills on an Amarr logi suit, you get 20hp/s constant reps using two 5hp/s armor reps. That's almost as powerful as shield recharging, but without the delay. You can get 100hp of armor or more during the 5s, if not more, that it takes for shields to start recharging again. Don't even mention when shields are fully depleted.

Add to the fact armor plates give more armor than shield, and you have more hp and a better repair rate, so surely the penalty to movement seems absolutely fine.

Not enough time for L5s in Amarr logi and the armor repair prereq? (Don't have Dust with me, don't know name of skill). With L3s, you still get a decent amount of 11hp/s. (The killer here is the fact that the best armor reps require L5). So you'd have about 17hp/s using the best armor reps.

And guess what, the Amarr logi suit gets 17hp/s base shield recharge rate if I recall correctly.

So because one suit, the slowest suit in the game outside of heavies mind you, can somewhat armor tank effectively then all armor tanking is fine?

If you want to be a true armor tank, yes. And the Amarr suit seems to be best at it (or at least more efficient than stacking 3+ armor reps on a Gallente suit). Also keep in mind that LOGISTICS is SUPPORT, not assault. The racial bonuses for Amarr just make armor tanking better than the other suits. And, the Amarr do have the best armor in New Eden, so yes I can make this judgement on armor tanking based on one race. Armor rep rate on Caldari is a joke.

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shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon DARKSTAR ARMY 130	Posted - 2013.05.29 18:50:00 - [1] - Quote Ok they reduce speed but why they also reduce jumps? buff needed wrote: eliminate penalty on movement nerf needed wrote: add penalty on stamina usage personal consideration wrote: The only thing they should do is to increase stamina usage. Armor repairing is continuous but it's slow. Shields have the really big advantage of being light, so a 500 hp shield suit is really faster compared to a 500 hp armor suit. This is unbalanced.
Halador Osiris Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 365	Posted - 2013.05.29 19:13:00 - [2] - Quote Have you ever tried to jump while wearing several hundred pounds of armor plates? personal consideration wrote: Shields have the really big advantage of being light, so a 500 hp shield suit is really faster compared to a 500 hp armor suit. This is unbalanced. No, it's not. Complex Shield Extenders give 66 HP. Complex armor plates give 115. 500hp shields requires more modules than 500hp armor.
Geirskoegul Soul-Strike 180	Posted - 2013.05.29 19:16:00 - [3] - Quote In EVE (as in RL) armour plates increase your mass. The suit is built to a spec, and when you add more mass to it, it decreases how much of the "strength" is enhancing yours and instead being devoted to offsetting the weight of the suit and all the equipment on it. Likewise, if the suit is capable of jumping X height normally, if you increase the mass, the height that the same amount of force can push you to jump is reduced. Real world example: do a vertical high jump. Now put a backpack on with about 10 kilos of weight in it (about the average weight of the ceramic plates in TODAY'S armour -- I'm military, by the way) and try again. You won't jumpt as high. Same thing here; it's perfectly logical. When you fit plates, you sacrifice mobility. All choices have consequence, and so you must balance maneuverabilty and speed against straight damage absorption, as it should be. Fit to your strengths and your playstyle accordingly.
ladwar Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 518	Posted - 2013.05.29 19:22:00 - [4] - Quote Halador Osiris wrote: Have you ever tried to jump while wearing several hundred pounds of armor plates? all the time and somehow I jump much higher then the scouts... wait that's halo, in RL lol.. far to lazy for that.
bacon blaster BIG BAD W0LVES Eternal Syndicate 39	Posted - 2013.05.29 19:31:00 - [5] - Quote It's heavy. You should get that. Try jumping while carrying 3-400 lbs of steel plating. Also, if you want a ****** jump, try a heavy suit. It is completely defeated by a tiny ledge
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon DARKSTAR ARMY 130	Posted - 2013.05.29 19:38:00 - [6] - Quote So the question is why armor plates consume pg/cpu if they are only scrap of metal?
Halador Osiris Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 366	Posted - 2013.05.29 19:47:00 - [7] - Quote shaman oga wrote: So the question is why armor plates consume pg/cpu if they are only scrap of metal? I honestly don't have a great answer. The best one I can come up with is that your suit attempts to compensate for the extra weight by putting extra power into the servos, but isn't able to fully overcome the weight of the armor. The CPU is required to allocate that extra power to different servos. Perhaps in the future they will introduce armor plates which don't reduce movement speed, but they cost more CPU/PG.
Thor McStrut Intara Direct Action Caldari State 17	Posted - 2013.05.29 20:40:00 - [8] - Quote Part of the problem of armor tanking is that there is no downside to shield tanking. They continually repair, they add HP. Where is the con of shield tanking? To many extenders should blow up your profile, and make you easier to track on the battlefield.
RECON BY FIRE Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 188	Posted - 2013.05.29 21:33:00 - [9] - Quote Halador Osiris wrote: Have you ever tried to jump while wearing several hundred pounds of armor plates? personal consideration wrote: Shields have the really big advantage of being light, so a 500 hp shield suit is really faster compared to a 500 hp armor suit. This is unbalanced. No, it's not. Complex Shield Extenders give 66 HP. Complex armor plates give 115. 500hp shields requires more modules than 500hp armor. You've obviously never armor tanked. Go skill into armor, put on enough reps to have even 15 hp/s rep, and tell us what kind of plates you were able to fit afterward. I bet it results in nowhere close to 500 armor HP.
ladwar Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 522	Posted - 2013.05.29 22:02:00 - [10] - Quote shaman oga wrote: So the question is why armor plates consume pg/cpu if they are only scrap of metal? because places armor where needed using CPU and some PG to for displacer to be online. its not just metal its smart metal or else you would only get spotty resistant's for less protection and more weight.

shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon DARKSTAR ARMY 130	Posted - 2013.05.29 22:46:00 - [11] - Quote RECON BY FIRE wrote: You've obviously never armor tanked. Go skill into armor, put on enough reps to have even 15 hp/s rep, and tell us what kind of plates you were able to fit afterward. I bet it results in nowhere close to 500 armor HP. 500 was only a random number to make a comparison, but that is not the point. Don't always think at proto level where you can adapt your fittings. Speed is a major factor on the battlefield. I'm sure that the Ck.0 logistic build is popular for a reason.
Cass Barr Red Star. EoN. 91	Posted - 2013.05.29 22:56:00 - [12] - Quote The problem with armor tanking, in a nutshell. Pick one: A. High HP buffer with practically no (or literally no) HP regen and an inability to move. B. Useful HP regen, but no HP buffer. C. Crap HP regen AND crap HP buffer, significant move penalty. Shields: A. Pick a suit with 5 high slots. Have high HP buffer, useful to very good HP regen, no move penalty.
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon DARKSTAR ARMY 130	Posted - 2013.05.29 23:11:00 - [13] - Quote It seems that we do not have a lot of choice to be competitive, some builds are a must and it's not very funny to be all in the same fit, there is always the concept of rock-paper-scissor in the game but the skills are forcing us in certain direction. Same applies to tanks, shield tanks are all the same, so do armor tanks. If the game walks towards this direction there will be no difference in playing another FPS, the only thing that would change are battlefield mechanics and the estetics.
Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 57	Posted - 2013.05.29 23:21:00 - [14] - Quote With max skills on an Amarr logi suit, you get 20hp/s constant reps using two 5hp/s armor reps. That's almost as powerful as shield recharging, but without the delay. You can get 100hp of armor or more during the 5s, if not more, that it takes for shields to start recharging again. Don't even mention when shields are fully depleted. Add to the fact armor plates give more armor than shield, and you have more hp and a better repair rate, so surely the penalty to movement seems absolutely fine. Not enough time for L5s in Amarr logi and the armor repair prereq? (Don't have Dust with me, don't know name of skill). With L3s, you still get a decent amount of 11hp/s. (The killer here is the fact that the best armor reps require L5). So you'd have about 17hp/s using the best armor reps. And guess what, the Amarr logi suit gets 17hp/s base shield recharge rate if I recall correctly.
Cass Barr Red Star. EoN. 93	Posted - 2013.05.29 23:28:00 - [15] - Quote Well I am just super happy for Amarr logis. Do they have 3 or 4 low slots, I can't remember.
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon DARKSTAR ARMY 130	Posted - 2013.05.29 23:36:00 - [16] - Quote stack 2 complex armor plates and you will move like sloth, you can repair what you want but still slow as hell.
ladwar Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 522	Posted - 2013.05.29 23:41:00 - [17] - Quote Cass Barr wrote: Well I am just super happy for Amarr logis. Do they have 3 or 4 low slots, I can't remember. 3low 3 high 3 equipment plus a sidearm.. oh btw the assaults 3,3,1 60 more shields that's it.
RECON BY FIRE Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 188	Posted - 2013.05.29 23:46:00 - [18] - Quote Harpyja wrote: With max skills on an Amarr logi suit, you get 20hp/s constant reps using two 5hp/s armor reps. That's almost as powerful as shield recharging, but without the delay. You can get 100hp of armor or more during the 5s, if not more, that it takes for shields to start recharging again. Don't even mention when shields are fully depleted. Add to the fact armor plates give more armor than shield, and you have more hp and a better repair rate, so surely the penalty to movement seems absolutely fine. Not enough time for L5s in Amarr logi and the armor repair prereq? (Don't have Dust with me, don't know name of skill). With L3s, you still get a decent amount of 11hp/s. (The killer here is the fact that the best armor reps require L5). So you'd have about 17hp/s using the best armor reps. And guess what, the Amarr logi suit gets 17hp/s base shield recharge rate if I recall correctly. So because one suit, the slowest suit in the game outside of heavies mind you, can somewhat armor tank effectively then all armor tanking is fine?
ladwar Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 522	Posted - 2013.05.29 23:48:00 - [19] - Quote the gallente would be better with 3high 5lows slots over the amarr with 3 high and 3 lows.
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon DARKSTAR ARMY 131	Posted - 2013.05.29 23:54:00 - [20] - Quote but you can't pass a 30 cm high obstacle if you are out of stamina and you can't jump over an obstacle which is high as your legs.

Cass Barr Red Star. EoN. 94	Posted - 2013.05.29 23:59:00 - [21] - Quote CORRECTION Harpyja has alerted us to the fact that one suit is capable of modifying C. So now we also have option D! A. High HP buffer with practically no (or literally no) HP regen and an inability to move. B. Useful HP regen, but no HP buffer. C. Crap HP regen AND crap HP buffer, significant move penalty. D. Useful HP regen and crappier HP buffer. -10% Move Speed (Amarr Logi ONLY) Shields: A. Pick a suit with 5 high slots. Have high HP buffer, useful to very good HP regen, no imove penalty.
Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 57	Posted - 2013.05.30 00:02:00 - [22] - Quote RECON BY FIRE wrote: Harpyja wrote: With max skills on an Amarr logi suit, you get 20hp/s constant reps using two 5hp/s armor reps. That's almost as powerful as shield recharging, but without the delay. You can get 100hp of armor or more during the 5s, if not more, that it takes for shields to start recharging again. Don't even mention when shields are fully depleted. Add to the fact armor plates give more armor than shield, and you have more hp and a better repair rate, so surely the penalty to movement seems absolutely fine. Not enough time for L5s in Amarr logi and the armor repair prereq? (Don't have Dust with me, don't know name of skill). With L3s, you still get a decent amount of 11hp/s. (The killer here is the fact that the best armor reps require L5). So you'd have about 17hp/s using the best armor reps. And guess what, the Amarr logi suit gets 17hp/s base shield recharge rate if I recall correctly. So because one suit, the slowest suit in the game outside of heavies mind you, can somewhat armor tank effectively then all armor tanking is fine? If you want to be a true armor tank, yes. And the Amarr suit seems to be best at it (or at least more efficient than stacking 3+ armor reps on a Gallente suit). Also keep in mind that LOGISTICS is SUPPORT, not assault. The racial bonuses for Amarr just make armor tanking better than the other suits. And, the Amarr do have the best armor in New Eden, so yes I can make this judgement on armor tanking based on one race. Armor rep rate on Caldari is a joke.
RECON BY FIRE Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 188	Posted - 2013.05.30 00:29:00 - [23] - Quote Harpyja wrote: RECON BY FIRE wrote: Harpyja wrote: With max skills on an Amarr logi suit, you get 20hp/s constant reps using two 5hp/s armor reps. That's almost as powerful as shield recharging, but without the delay. You can get 100hp of armor or more during the 5s, if not more, that it takes for shields to start recharging again. Don't even mention when shields are fully depleted. Add to the fact armor plates give more armor than shield, and you have more hp and a better repair rate, so surely the penalty to movement seems absolutely fine. Not enough time for L5s in Amarr logi and the armor repair prereq? (Don't have Dust with me, don't know name of skill). With L3s, you still get a decent amount of 11hp/s. (The killer here is the fact that the best armor reps require L5). So you'd have about 17hp/s using the best armor reps. And guess what, the Amarr logi suit gets 17hp/s base shield recharge rate if I recall correctly. So because one suit, the slowest suit in the game outside of heavies mind you, can somewhat armor tank effectively then all armor tanking is fine? If you want to be a true armor tank, yes. And the Amarr suit seems to be best at it (or at least more efficient than stacking 3+ armor reps on a Gallente suit). Also keep in mind that LOGISTICS is SUPPORT, not assault. The racial bonuses for Amarr just make armor tanking better than the other suits. And, the Amarr do have the best armor in New Eden, so yes I can make this judgement on armor tanking based on one race. Armor rep rate on Caldari is a joke. Then I feel comfortable in saying that you are ignorant. I armor tanked on the Gallente Assault before respec, I ended up running shields with regulators, 1 rep, and a CPU chip to make it all fit because armor tanking is so bad. Anybody in this thread right now that claims armor tanking is fine has obviously not tried it. Yeah, whoopdydoo, the Amarr logi has good regen. So what? Shields are still vastly superior to armor.
Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 57	Posted - 2013.05.30 00:53:00 - [24] - Quote I'm sorry but the Gallente aren't supposed to be better armor tankers than Amarr in New Eden. You try to test armor to the fullest with the wrong race. Just like saying shields suck because Minmatar can't perfect shield fits.
Cass Barr Red Star. EoN. 94	Posted - 2013.05.30 01:08:00 - [25] - Quote Harpyja wrote: I'm sorry but the Gallente aren't supposed to be better armor tankers than Amarr in New Eden. You try to test armor to the fullest with the wrong race. Just like saying shields suck because Minmatar can't perfect shield fits. And it really doesn't matter, because they both suck at it. The Amarr logi has nothing to do with the discussion on armor tanking viability, first because it's just one suit among many, and second because it only has 3 low slots. All the regen in the world doesn't matter if that Duvolle melts you before you can get back into cover. And droll on all you want about who tanks how in Eve, it doesn't matter. CCP (you might happen to recognize them as being the developers of Eve, as well as Dust) has obviously decided to orient the Amarr suits towards Omni tanking, regardless of your personal feelings on the matter.
RECON BY FIRE Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 188	Posted - 2013.05.30 01:25:00 - [26] - Quote Harpyja wrote: I'm sorry but the Gallente aren't supposed to be better armor tankers than Amarr in New Eden. You try to test armor to the fullest with the wrong race. Just like saying shields suck because Minmatar can't perfect shield fits. Like I said, ignorant.
Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 57	Posted - 2013.05.30 03:33:00 - [27] - Quote Here's my final statement. I only said that I find the movement penalty fine. There also will be future plates that have no penalty but would require more CPU/PG I'd imagine. I've also stated a long time ago that shield extenders should increase signature size, which would then allow easier spotting on your map and that splash damage becomes magnified. Cass Barr, a Duvolle melting you before you can hide again doesn't matter if you're shields or armor. Wow, I only state my opinion with some stats and everyone has to pounce. How do you expect CCP to do the right thing if the forums are filled with negative feedback?
RECON BY FIRE Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 188	Posted - 2013.05.30 05:57:00 - [28] - Quote Harpyja wrote: Here's my final statement. I only said that I find the movement penalty fine. There also will be future plates that have no penalty but would require more CPU/PG I'd imagine. I've also stated a long time ago that shield extenders should increase signature size, which would then allow easier spotting on your map and that splash damage becomes magnified. Cass Barr, a Duvolle melting you before you can hide again doesn't matter if you're shields or armor. Wow, I only state my opinion with some stats and everyone has to pounce. How do you expect CCP to do the right thing if the forums are filled with negative feedback? Your "stats" are incredibly misinformed and inaccurate, that is why people are "pouncing" on you.
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon DARKSTAR ARMY 131	Posted - 2013.05.30 10:27:00 - [29] - Quote Armor tanking have these problems and the funny thing is that when i try to use ramps to reach a place i get stuck because the game is bugged. The only class that should have those malus on armor plates should be the heavy but with a % bonus on efficiency of armor plates.
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon DARKSTAR ARMY 141	Posted - 2013.06.03 14:07:00 - [30] - Quote Images are better than words: Image we need an way to pass obstacles.



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