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Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
180
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Posted - 2013.05.29 17:36:00 -
[1] - Quote
Drake Manfield wrote:Not sure how to address this but....
I would like to see a limit to the number of revivals by a medic. Make it like ammo.
Reason???
I ended up on a map that was 3 on 2 for most of the map and ended up getting ganked....
Kiromus Lyndis Kytaar of Imperfects was on my side and Zxyre Kralizec of IMPSwarm was on the apposing side.
I would come up to take the spawn and Kiromus would distract me with gun fire while Zxyre would kill me and then Kiromus would continuously revive me while Zxyre would kill me..... 12 revive/deaths later they quite. Zxyre would be up 12 kills and Kiromus would be up all the points for the revives....
Do I consider this a bug??? Not in the normal sense. Maybe something can be changed. I was not able to prevent my revival nor was I able to exit the map while this was going on so I was forced to be revived and killed repeatedly.
Do I consider it cheating? Yes. Both characters have enormous kill/death ratios and I suspect this is why.
Please move this where you see fit. This is not a attack on a character or characters but a flaw that I see that can be exploited exponentially.
-Drake
So the guy reviving you was an enemy? Seems straight forward enough: don't grant WP for reviving enemies. Otherwise, I see no issue.
If you're complaining avout medics constantly reviving their mates, explosives and headshots prevent reviving; aim better or use explosives. |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
180
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Posted - 2013.05.29 17:50:00 -
[2] - Quote
Drake Manfield wrote:Please take a moment to re-read it. The guy reviving was a team mate. The guy killing was a enemy.
I reread it, I stand by MY points (your solution is like cutting off an arm to cure a hangnail), but you have one as well, with a relatively easy fix. Simply implement a quick "left click to accept revive, right click to respawn" prompt (or x/o for controller users; button choice is deliberate on my part to make it fast and have you already positioned to start fighting right away, since you're probably still under fire.). |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
180
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Posted - 2013.05.29 18:18:00 -
[3] - Quote
EXASTRA INVICTAS wrote:Geirskoegul wrote:Drake Manfield wrote:Please take a moment to re-read it. The guy reviving was a team mate. The guy killing was a enemy. I reread it, I stand by MY points (your solution is like cutting off an arm to cure a hangnail), but you have one as well, with a relatively easy fix. Simply implement a quick "left click to accept revive, right click to respawn" prompt (or x/o for controller users; button choice is deliberate on my part to make it fast and have you already positioned to start fighting right away, since you're probably still under fire.). I don't think "accepting" a nanite injection is really an optional thing. The best solution (in my opinion) is to make it so you can only be revived by nanites X number of times per clone before respawn. Two sounds like a fine number to me.
You're mixing realism with gameplay mechanics. What we're talking about is mitigating behaviour that violates reality (why would they revive you JUST to get an extra kill and another revive for more points? You'd just leave them dead.)
Similarly, since equipment costs isk and is lost on death without revival, the situations in which you would choose not to revive would USUALLY be limited to the exact case the OP describes: point farming (i'd sacrifice my fit to choose a different one if the fight really needed it, but that's not the norm; most people are both cheap, greedy, and selfish).
By offering the prompt it offers a real fix to the legitimate exploitation issue (that would be impossible to programmatically distinguish from just a dedicated teammate trying to keep his mates alive; not to mention nearly impossible to distinguish even with a manual investigation, since it would basically boil down to one's word against the other). In most cases you'd want to accept, but if you were seeing what the OP did, you'd probably decline and try another attack, instead of deeding them more points. |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
180
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 18:21:00 -
[4] - Quote
Drake Manfield wrote:That would be a sufficient fix. I just want to make sure that it is not a automatic revival for a exploit like this one.
And that's what i'm looking to address as well, with a minimum-impact solution. Limiting revives (either from the injector, or the one being rez'd being limited to x revives per spawn) is heavy handed and discourages legitimate teamplay in the process. My fixis lighter-weight and would be far more targeted, since the game's mechanics would discourage its use in nearly all situations except the exploit you described in the OP. |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
194
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Posted - 2013.05.30 16:30:00 -
[5] - Quote
Daedric Lothar wrote:Delirium Inferno wrote:Really? You want to make the nanite injector even harder to use than it currently is? And not for some reason like you cleared an enemy base only to have everyone get revived, but because you were getting constantly killed on revival and were upset about your meaningless KDR. It's not like you were losing something of value like your ISK.
I have two better solutions off the top of my head,
1) Remove the death from your stats if you got revived, since you didn't actually die. Would help satisfy the stat-crazies out there, but I'm sure there'd be other stat-crazies who say that's not fair so
2) Upon being injector, give you an option of whether or not you want to accept the revival.
EDIT: Read the other posts here, seems you touched on some of this already. That's fine, just don't do something stupid like giving the nanite injector "ammo" or only making clones revivable a certain number of times. This is all good. I don't really care if other people are point exploting by blowing each other away and reviving. It isn't that big of a deal anyways.
It can also be exploited to keep him out of the fight, if he's being revived fast enough to prevent choosing a respawn. This would mean two people out of the fight (since the one blueberry is already working against the team). |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
194
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Posted - 2013.05.30 16:43:00 -
[6] - Quote
Daedric Lothar wrote:Geirskoegul wrote: It can also be exploited to keep him out of the fight, if he's being revived fast enough to prevent choosing a respawn. This would mean two people out of the fight (since the one blueberry is already working against the team). Oh noes, AWOXING has reached Pubs!
You forget, I support AWOXing :-)
That said, there's a difference between treachery and outright exploitation (which this point farming very clearly is). It's easy to fix with an accept/decline prompt, and it would be exceedingly difficult to catch programmatically or even via manual investigation of logs so you could use the petition system to see the offending parties punished.
If an AWOXer shoots you, you're down, you respawn, he's welcome to try again. If this is exploited they could literally keep you out of the rest of the match. Depending on who this was done to, this could be an inconvenience or it could be devastating, depending on various factors like what fits he has that others don't, being their best player, or worst of all being their platoon commander. |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
201
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Posted - 2013.05.31 09:31:00 -
[7] - Quote
Stephen Rao wrote:Geirskoegul wrote:You forget, I support AWOXing :-) Then you have no right to complain. It's not like the friendly was getting any points after the first revive anyways. Geirskoegul wrote: Depending on who this was done to, this could be an inconvenience or it could be devastating, depending on various factors like what fits he has that others don't, being their best player, or worst of all being their platoon commander. Except it also keeps the medic and the shooter out of the game as well, and it doesn't cost you ISK or lose your team clones.I would hope the teams 'best player' know to jam 'x' then 'triangle' to just respawn...
Apples and oranges, mate. This is not simple AWOXing, this is clearly abusive, nonintended play. It largely amounts to the equivalent of constantly bumping someone so they can't warp but never actually engaging; it is classified as harassment and is punishable, as it should be. Same situation here, and a prompt to accept or or decline is far more desirable than any of the other suggestions here, which amount to crippling nerfs to logis.
The most heavy-handed "fix" i can think of that wouldn't be crippling would be to limit the frequency in which someone can be revived, e.g. once you've been revived you cannot be revived again unless you've stayed alive for, say, 30 seconds. A simple prompt would still be far more desirable. |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
201
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 11:40:00 -
[8] - Quote
Adam Average wrote:I just personally think, that a death should only be counted if they have to respawn, and a kill should only be counted if they had to respawn, ensuring this exploit can't possibly happen, and enforce shooting the body upon a kill.
This way so that medics can have a more rewarding feeling when they do successfully revive a teammate but they should also only receive WPs for the initial revive of a clone any other is worth 0 WP but still prevents a death and WPs+kill for the enemy team, while making it so that the killer has to ensure that they killed an enemy soldier to get their 50 WP, and not leaving him to be revived by a nearby medic. Makes the medics job harder, but more rewarding.
Again nerfing logi unnecessarily and discouraging its use. See my mention of a timer before you can be revived again if you're so desperate for an unnecessarily heavy-handed fix that only peripherally affects the actual negative behaviour. |
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