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Banjo Robertson
The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION
6
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Posted - 2013.05.29 16:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hey who doesn't like a good armor plate thread? I know the roadmap has some armor plates that dont reduce movement , as well as some that come with built in armor repair, but how about working with and tweaking what we have now?
I like the boost of efficacy from the skill we have now, it makes even the basic armor plates still somewhat competitive when you're at level 5, but I'm going to suggest the movement penalty be changed somewhat.
As it is now, we have 2 things that effect movement speed in the game, the kinetic modules, and armor plates. Kinetic mods only effect your sprinting speed, and armor plates effect your movement and sprinting speed.
In general I like the idea of movement being reduced by armor, but it feels like the system could use some tweaking, with level 5 armor skill, there is almost no reason to use a complex armor plate, as the straight up 10% reduction in movement reduces the mobility of everyone to the point where its only good if you use a LAV to drive up to your next victim, hop out to gun them down, and then drive to your next target.
Unless you are trying to save slot space, 2 enhanced plates will give you more armor points, and reduce your movement less than one complex plate. If a regular movement penalty is to remain a part of armor plate mods, the percentage your movement is reduced by should be taken into consideration and tweaked some.
OR, we could do away with the movement penalty all-together for armor plates, and instead have it reduce your sprinting speed only, since armor plates draw a good amount of PG from your suit, it could be assumed that this PG is to make your suit able to compensate for the extra mass when walking, but running is still slowed down. This seems like the best compromise from my point of view, as even the kinetic modules only increase sprinting speed, they do not increase regular movement, which would seem just as broken as reducing regular movement seems to me. |
Halador Osiris
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
365
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Posted - 2013.05.29 16:37:00 -
[2] - Quote
Banjo Robertson wrote:OR, we could do away with the movement penalty all-together for armor plates, and instead have it reduce your sprinting speed only, since armor plates draw a good amount of PG from your suit, it could be assumed that this PG is to make your suit able to compensate for the extra mass when walking, but running is still slowed down. This seems like the best compromise from my point of view, as even the kinetic modules only increase sprinting speed, they do not increase regular movement, which would seem just as broken as reducing regular movement seems to me. Go die in a hole. |
Doyle Reese
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
57
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Posted - 2013.05.29 16:53:00 -
[3] - Quote
As a Gallente Scout, I approve this message (I don't want to be slowed down )
though that's likely not going to happen |
Banjo Robertson
The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION
7
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Posted - 2013.05.29 16:54:00 -
[4] - Quote
Halador Osiris wrote:Banjo Robertson wrote:OR, we could do away with the movement penalty all-together for armor plates, and instead have it reduce your sprinting speed only, since armor plates draw a good amount of PG from your suit, it could be assumed that this PG is to make your suit able to compensate for the extra mass when walking, but running is still slowed down. This seems like the best compromise from my point of view, as even the kinetic modules only increase sprinting speed, they do not increase regular movement, which would seem just as broken as reducing regular movement seems to me. Go die in a hole.
what crawled into your common courtesy and left a pile of internet tough-guy where a human used to be? |
Halador Osiris
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
365
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Posted - 2013.05.29 17:14:00 -
[5] - Quote
Banjo Robertson wrote:Halador Osiris wrote:Banjo Robertson wrote:OR, we could do away with the movement penalty all-together for armor plates, and instead have it reduce your sprinting speed only, since armor plates draw a good amount of PG from your suit, it could be assumed that this PG is to make your suit able to compensate for the extra mass when walking, but running is still slowed down. This seems like the best compromise from my point of view, as even the kinetic modules only increase sprinting speed, they do not increase regular movement, which would seem just as broken as reducing regular movement seems to me. Go die in a hole. what crawled into your common courtesy and left a pile of internet tough-guy where a human used to be? Caldari loyalty. |
EXASTRA INVICTAS
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
41
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Posted - 2013.05.29 17:55:00 -
[6] - Quote
Simple solution is just make some modules that boost walking speed and running speed. Like a Nanofiber module. Only problem is there's no structure to reduce to balance the rig o3o
Maybe just have it cut into shields some? I dunno. I'm not going to think too much into this as I don't have too big of an issue with the armor as it is at the moment. |
Stephen Rao
Verboten XXI
13
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Posted - 2013.05.30 00:16:00 -
[7] - Quote
I had a thread on the exact same topic. It is now buried under the QQ about TAR's and LAV's. Here's my OP with some quotes from great contributors in that thread:
Stephen Rao wrote:I've always been puzzled how the Armour Plates are the only module with a drawback. I've heard some explain this as weight slowing you down, but in the far future why do we make things stronger by making them heavier? Why can't we just use more durable material that isn't made out of concrete? (better material would explain the increased cost in ISK as well as the increased CPU/PG strain on the suit). As it seems counter-productive to complain about the speed penalty (as I'm sure it is a balancing factor), I'll focus on the way that it scales as I think it is absolutely absurde. The basic module grants you 65 hp to armor and a 3% speed reduction. This module is, in my opinion, the BEST armor plate you can purchase. While the Advanced and Proto armor plates grant more HP, they also take an inordinate amount of speed with them. Here's the current spread between HP gained, Speed Reduction, and SP required to use these modules: Module________________Armor HP__Speed Decrease__SP Investment Basic Armor Plates_________65________3%____________55,970 Advanced Armor Plates_____85________5%___________242,510 Complex Amor Plates______115_______10%___________932,760 So while Complex Plates offer less than 2x the protection of Basic Plates, they reduce your speed by more than 3x!! Advanced Plates aren't any better, giving you 1.2x more protection, again at the cost of almost 2x speed reduction over the Basic Plates. While using a Complex Armor Plate does save you a module slot, it costs you almost 1mil SP to get a massive speed reduction that is far worse than 2 Basic Armor Plates in armor granted, speed penalty, SP investment and ISK cost. I-Shayz-I wrote:Using complex armor plates is a waste of time and sp. There is no reason to use them because of how much more vulnerable you become. By using 3 advanced plates I only get a 15% penalty for 255 armor. By using 2 complex plates I only get 230 armor with a penalty of 20%. I like ZDub's suggestion better than mine (as it has math and stuff), so while you'll see it later in this thread: ZDub 303 wrote:No matter what, I feel like complex modules should be MORE efficient than basic modules for buff per penalty.
If we kept with the 3% move penalty / 65 armor you're looking at 0.046% move penalty per armor point... At which point advanced should be like 0.035% and complex at 0.03%...
So.. Basic, 65 Armor - 3% move penalty Complex, 115 Armor - 3.45% move penalty.
That way, it is never more efficient to run basic > complex. |
Banjo Robertson
The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION
9
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Posted - 2013.05.30 01:20:00 -
[8] - Quote
Halador Osiris wrote:Banjo Robertson wrote:Halador Osiris wrote:Banjo Robertson wrote:OR, we could do away with the movement penalty all-together for armor plates, and instead have it reduce your sprinting speed only, since armor plates draw a good amount of PG from your suit, it could be assumed that this PG is to make your suit able to compensate for the extra mass when walking, but running is still slowed down. This seems like the best compromise from my point of view, as even the kinetic modules only increase sprinting speed, they do not increase regular movement, which would seem just as broken as reducing regular movement seems to me. Go die in a hole. what crawled into your common courtesy and left a pile of internet tough-guy where a human used to be? Caldari loyalty. Caldari can has armor too, :D
Stephen Rao, thanks for your post, this is exactly the kind of stuff I'm talking about, 2 complex armor plates on any suit will make it a slug. |
BuTtHuRtPEepZ
Raging Pack of Homos
22
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Posted - 2013.05.30 01:48:00 -
[9] - Quote
imo, removing the speed penalty would require a major rework of all the dropsuits and a specific weapon to balance the change.
1. in order to prevent caldari and minmatar from abusing the additional armor hp, it would require that all caldari and minmatar suits have their low power slots reduced to 1 forcing them to be shield tankers 2. In order to prevent the gallente from abusing the lack it speed, it would require that all gallente suits have their high power slots reduced to 1 forcing them to be armor tankers 3. In order to prevent the amarr from abusing both shields and armor, it would require making them all a little slower 4. Finally, it would also require an introduction of a weapon whose damage output was the complete opposite of the scrambler rifle, doing 50/150 vs shield/armor.
Only then will changing/removing the armor penalty will balance the game...theoretically. |
Banjo Robertson
The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION
10
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Posted - 2013.05.30 03:13:00 -
[10] - Quote
That's one point of view to have, another would be that the armor plates are currently not balanced in the game as it is, and changing their penalty is bringing the suits into balance.
Maybe removing the regular movement penalty is a bad idea, but re-working the penalty isnt an idea to shrug off.
Basic plates could be moved down to a 2% movement penalty, keep at 65 HP Enhanced plates could be moved to a 2.5% movement penalty, keep at 87 HP Complex plates could be moved to a 3% movement penalty, keep at 115 HP
2 basic plates are then 130 HP, 4% movement penalty, 32.5 HP for each movement 1% penalty
2 enhance plates are 174 HP, 5% movement penalty, 34.8 HP for each movement 1% penalty
1 complex plate is 115 HP, 3% movement penalty, 38.333 HP for each movement 1% penalty
We get a nice scale of armor vs movement penalty, with more advanced plates being a little more effecient, and costing more SP to unlock, more CPU and more PG to compensate for the tech, and while the complex becomes better, its not unreasonably better for the HP gain vs movement penalty.
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Stephen Rao
Verboten XXI
13
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Posted - 2013.05.30 03:32:00 -
[11] - Quote
BuTtHuRtPEepZ wrote:imo, removing the speed penalty would require a major rework of all the dropsuits and a specific weapon to balance the change.
1. in order to prevent caldari and minmatar from abusing the additional armor hp, it would require that all caldari and minmatar suits have their low power slots reduced to 1 forcing them to be shield tankers 2. In order to prevent the gallente from abusing the lack it speed, it would require that all gallente suits have their high power slots reduced to 1 forcing them to be armor tankers 3. In order to prevent the amarr from abusing both shields and armor, it would require making them all a little slower 4. Finally, it would also require an introduction of a weapon whose damage output was the complete opposite of the scrambler rifle, doing 50/150 vs shield/armor.
Only then will changing/removing the armor penalty will balance the game...theoretically. I don't see how reduced penalties (with a proper scaling system) would suddenly imbalance the mechanic. 1, 2, and 3 are all balanced by CPU and PG restrictions, let alone current slot layout. If you want to duel tank, you can already do it but you suffer by being restricted to sub-par Weapons, Grenades and Equipment.
4 already exists. Mass Drivers, Flaylock Pistols and HMG's are all better against armor already. |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon Plus
559
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Posted - 2013.05.30 20:18:00 -
[12] - Quote
Halador Osiris wrote:Banjo Robertson wrote:OR, we could do away with the movement penalty all-together for armor plates, and instead have it reduce your sprinting speed only, since armor plates draw a good amount of PG from your suit, it could be assumed that this PG is to make your suit able to compensate for the extra mass when walking, but running is still slowed down. This seems like the best compromise from my point of view, as even the kinetic modules only increase sprinting speed, they do not increase regular movement, which would seem just as broken as reducing regular movement seems to me. Go die in a hole. What the hell?
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