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WyrmHero1945
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
333
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Posted - 2013.05.29 08:14:00 -
[1] - Quote
So I'm looking at the optimal ranges of turrets in EVE right now. CCP already said that the current ARs are actually placeholders for the upcoming 4 races rifles. Following EVE's optimal ranges, imo:
-Gallente AR: 40m. Blasters in EVE have more optimal than projectiles, but since this is the highest ROF rifle it just logical to leave as it is since it's more suitable for CQC. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Neutron_Blaster_Cannon_II
-Minmatar Combat Rifle: 50m CCP says it's going to be a burst-type rifle, so it needs to have a bit more range than Gallente AR so it's good at mid range and follows EVE autocannon turrets optimals. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/800mm_Repeating_Artillery_II
-Amarr Scrambler Rifle: 60m for the assault variant and 70m for the semi auto variant. These are both pulse laser technology, which have much more optimal than a blaster and projectile turret. Both have the highest accuracy rating atm while having lower range than both Gallente ARs (std and TAR), which it's strange. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Mega_Pulse_Laser_II
Amarr Laser Rifle: 100m. Currently 80m optimal is just too low for a laser rifle. I want to see them on rooftops again. This range should make them viable again. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Mega_Beam_Laser_II
-Caldari Rail Rifle: 110m. If this is a railgun it's supposed to have crazy range, much more than the other close-mid range rifles. CCP says it's going to be like the breach variant, slow rate of fire and very high damage. I think it's better to just act like a small railgun with very small spool time between shots. Either way, range. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/425mm_Railgun_II
Check each optimal range at the bottom of each link. Any feedback, thoughts |
Noc Tempre
Commando Perkone Caldari State
1713
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Posted - 2013.05.29 08:15:00 -
[2] - Quote
http://symthic.com/bf3-weapon-charts LOL 110m = crazy range. |
Cosgar's Alt
Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic
8
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Posted - 2013.05.29 08:19:00 -
[3] - Quote
Give the Gallente rifle a hard cap on range and the combat rifle incidental damage at max range the AR has now, and it's perfect. |
WyrmHero1945
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
333
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Posted - 2013.05.29 08:20:00 -
[4] - Quote
Noc Tempre wrote:http://symthic.com/bf3-weapon-charts LOL 110m = crazy range.
Yeah, ranges should be double at the very least for all guns. |
Himiko Kuronaga
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
529
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Posted - 2013.05.29 08:49:00 -
[5] - Quote
Why don't we have mods that simply increase the range of weapons, anyway? |
Cosgar's Alt
Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic
9
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Posted - 2013.05.29 08:52:00 -
[6] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Why don't we have mods that simply increase the range of weapons, anyway? Because of Chromosome. |
Himiko Kuronaga
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
529
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Posted - 2013.05.29 08:57:00 -
[7] - Quote
Cosgar's Alt wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Why don't we have mods that simply increase the range of weapons, anyway? Because of Chromosome.
You mean the best build this game ever had? |
Kane Fyea
DUST University Ivy League
185
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Posted - 2013.05.29 09:03:00 -
[8] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Cosgar's Alt wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Why don't we have mods that simply increase the range of weapons, anyway? Because of Chromosome. You mean the best build this game ever had? Were we playing the same build? |
Happy Violentime
OMFGZOMBIESRUN
87
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Posted - 2013.05.29 09:29:00 -
[9] - Quote
Cosgar's Alt wrote:Give the Gallente rifle a hard cap on range and the combat rifle incidental damage at max range the AR has now, and it's perfect.
Gallente rifle HAS a hard cap on range already.... |
XXfootnoteXX
DUST University Ivy League
324
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Posted - 2013.05.29 09:45:00 -
[10] - Quote
Happy Violentime wrote:Cosgar's Alt wrote:Give the Gallente rifle a hard cap on range and the combat rifle incidental damage at max range the AR has now, and it's perfect. Gallente rifle HAS a hard cap on range already....
They really need to have a fall off range. (all weapons) |
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Cosgar's Alt
Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic
10
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Posted - 2013.05.29 09:47:00 -
[11] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Cosgar's Alt wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Why don't we have mods that simply increase the range of weapons, anyway? Because of Chromosome. You mean the best build this game ever had? If you like killing snipers with an AR and playing laser tag in Manus Peak. People forget Chrome wasn't all about unicorns eating sunshine and farting rainbows. |
Himiko Kuronaga
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
530
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Posted - 2013.05.29 09:51:00 -
[12] - Quote
Kane Fyea wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Cosgar's Alt wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Why don't we have mods that simply increase the range of weapons, anyway? Because of Chromosome. You mean the best build this game ever had? Were we playing the same build?
I believe so.
I guess the difference is that same of us were winning.
Now that the skill mountain has been flattened I suppose any schmoe can feel like a winner. |
Cosgar's Alt
Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic
12
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Posted - 2013.05.29 10:16:00 -
[13] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Kane Fyea wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Cosgar's Alt wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Why don't we have mods that simply increase the range of weapons, anyway? Because of Chromosome. You mean the best build this game ever had? Were we playing the same build? I believe so. I guess the difference is that same of us were winning. Now that the skill mountain has been flattened I suppose any schmoe can feel like a winner. See, you got it wrong. Last build was SP > Skill where you could load up on a bunch of passives that made your character good at everything. "Whee! I'm so skilled at my gun, I can make my bullets hit harder and fly further!" Now, almost all the relevant passives are tied to your fitting, so you actually have to use your head. On top of that, you don't have your super sniper AR that you can blind fire across the map with. Instead, you need to stay with your squad and actually use teamwork instead of run-and-gun rambo everything. So now that you actually have to apply skills other then fast reflexes and the ability to shoot in a general direction, some people have gone from winning to whining. |
Daxxis KANNAH
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
57
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Posted - 2013.05.29 10:54:00 -
[14] - Quote
Cosgar's Alt wrote: See, you got it wrong. Last build was SP > Skill where you could load up on a bunch of passives that made your character good at everything. "Whee! I'm so skilled at my gun, I can make my bullets hit harder and fly further!" Now, almost all the relevant passives are tied to your fitting, so you actually have to use your head. On top of that, you don't have your super sniper AR that you can blind fire across the map with. Instead, you need to stay with your squad and actually use teamwork instead of run-and-gun rambo everything. So now that you actually have to apply skills other then fast reflexes and the ability to shoot in a general direction, some people have gone from winning to whining.
Ouch
Once the other rifles come in and ranges are fixed things should balance out nicely.
Only a few other weapons to fix and then Armor / Shield tradeoff and infantry warfare should be |
WyrmHero1945
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
336
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Posted - 2013.05.29 16:42:00 -
[15] - Quote
Agreed, weapons have a place now that we don't have the sharpshooter skill. Still the LR and SR need their ranges buff so they can be useful. |
Vavilia Lysenko
Ametat Security Amarr Empire
16
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Posted - 2013.05.29 17:26:00 -
[16] - Quote
All we need is fall-off.
Having a gun that fires a projectile/beam of hot light of some sort that does X damage up to Y metres distance then does zero damage at Y+0.0001 metres is ludicrous.
It's all about the fall-off. |
WyrmHero1945
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
336
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 18:31:00 -
[17] - Quote
Vavilia Lysenko wrote:All we need is fall-off.
Having a gun that fires a projectile/beam of hot light of some sort that does X damage up to Y metres distance then does zero damage at Y+0.0001 metres is ludicrous.
It's all about the fall-off.
Sorry for my ignorance, but what is fall-off? Are you suggesting a very large range for all the weapons? |
ZDub 303
TeamPlayers EoN.
249
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Posted - 2013.05.29 19:04:00 -
[18] - Quote
WyrmHero1945 wrote:Vavilia Lysenko wrote:All we need is fall-off.
Having a gun that fires a projectile/beam of hot light of some sort that does X damage up to Y metres distance then does zero damage at Y+0.0001 metres is ludicrous.
It's all about the fall-off. Sorry for my ignorance, but what is fall-off? Are you suggesting a very large range for all the weapons?
Decreasing damage after optimal and maximum range. At the moment guns do full damage up to optimal and decreased damage up until max, at which point they do zero.
Remnant was saying he is going to add absolute range in as well, so guns do 'incidental damage' from max effective to absolute range.
However, like most first iterations in this game, it'll probably end up making things worse rather than better.
Not sure how I feel about ARs doing something like 10% damage at the ranges in which the maps in this game were clearly built for, you'll just be alerting people to your presence more than anything.
we'll see though, hopefully this next major client patch comes sooner rather than later and we can start complaining on the forums so remnant can finally bump up the ranges like he's needed to all along. |
Noc Tempre
Commando Perkone Caldari State
1717
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 19:22:00 -
[19] - Quote
Optimal can be short, but if max range is shorter than the average person is capable of aiming at, you have a SP > Skill game. |
hydraSlav's
Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation
173
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Posted - 2013.05.29 19:26:00 -
[20] - Quote
Auto-cannons are not Artillery. Auto cannons are close range, fast ROF Artillery is long range, very slow ROF, but extremely high alpha-damage.
Also, the thing about Minmatar weapons in EvE is that they have very high "fall off". So the optimal range may be low, but there is huge (compared to other weapons) fall off making up for it, and most Minmatar pilots are just accustomed to fighting inside the fall off range, outside of the optimal.
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IceStormers
Forsaken Immortals Gentlemen's Agreement
33
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Posted - 2013.06.01 13:32:00 -
[21] - Quote
i agree with both
i really want to see them following EvE style better
Minnie can handle a Burst Style as its meant to be high alpha damage slow rof
all weapons still need to be reasonable levels, the tar is op due to not having the heat build up that the scram has, it needs a draw back and a lower rof
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Shion Typhon
Intara Direct Action Caldari State
9
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Posted - 2013.06.01 14:31:00 -
[22] - Quote
XXfootnoteXX wrote:
They really need to have a fall off range. (all weapons)
Hell yes, x10 |
Shion Typhon
Intara Direct Action Caldari State
9
|
Posted - 2013.06.01 14:37:00 -
[23] - Quote
Cosgar's Alt wrote:I believe so.
I guess the difference is that same of us were winning.
Now that the skill mountain has been flattened I suppose any schmoe can feel like a winner. See, you got it wrong. Last build was SP > Skill where you could load up on a bunch of passives that made your character good at everything. "Whee! I'm so skilled at my gun, I can make my bullets hit harder and fly further!" Now, almost all the relevant passives are tied to your fitting, so you actually have to use your head. On top of that, you don't have your super sniper AR that you can blind fire across the map with. Instead, you need to stay with your squad and actually use teamwork instead of run-and-gun rambo everything. So now that you actually have to apply skills other then fast reflexes and the ability to shoot in a general direction, some people have gone from winning to whining.
At the moment though AR ranges are around 1/3 of the distance at which you spot your opponent because of the open nature of the maps. So you see each other then run towards each other for 10s followed by a bout of idiotic bunny hopping.
Either 1) Build up the maps with more cover (or at least less 300m runs across open plains) or 2) Double the range of weapons (either via optimal or falloff).
Gun combat at the moment is waaaaaay unnatural. No FPS I know has such short range on guns compared to the terrain of the map, feels ridiculous. |
KOBLAKA1
Opus Arcana Orion Empire
27
|
Posted - 2013.06.01 15:08:00 -
[24] - Quote
What about my hmg range? |
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