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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
ADAM-OF-EVE
Circle of Huskarl
Minmatar Republic
11
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Posted - 2013.05.28 13:41:00 -
[1] - Quote
......why there are so many beginner skills which do nothing but unlock other skills which themselves don't unlock anything until you have in the most cases lvl1 in the first and lvl2 in the second skill(or vice versa). come on you have to see how ridiculous this is.
I'm sat here with a full respec and all i can think of is "if i go for that I'm wasting sp on something that gives no benefit at all".
in eve for example you have hull upgrades lvl 1for the first arm plate. with the way dust works you would have a skill called ship upgrades which you would need at lvl 2 first then a skill called ship armour upgrades which you would have to train to lvl 1 then have to train armour plates to lvl 1. if eve ran like that it would be awfull.
tbh the learning curve for dust is far worse than that of eve and its all down to your awfull skills. i have friends and family who play this game who love the gameplay but hate the skills and im trying to convince them to stay but how can you convince someone to stay and spend all their skill points in something they are going get little of no benifit from untill they have spent more in it |
ADAM-OF-EVE
Circle of Huskarl
Minmatar Republic
11
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Posted - 2013.05.28 13:48:00 -
[2] - Quote
ChromeBreaker wrote: Makes people dedicate to a path, and your not waisting points if it unlocks something you want
but it only unlocks something after you have wasted the points. for making it simple the begginer skills should be removed completely as they serve no purpose other than sinking sp
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Circle of Huskarl
Minmatar Republic
12
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Posted - 2013.05.28 13:54:00 -
[3] - Quote
Bigglesworth McQueen wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:ChromeBreaker wrote:Makes people dedicate to a path, and your not waisting points if it unlocks something you want but it only unlocks something after you have wasted the points. for making it simple the begginer skills should be removed completely as they serve no purpose other than sinking sp It's not a waste of points if it unlocks something. In this case, it unlocks a skill that is useful. That skill probably unlocks a weapon, which is useful. It's a skill tree, not a new concept.
so why not cut that skill out and just have the skill that is usefull. if the other skill isnt providing anything then it is surplus to requirement |
ADAM-OF-EVE
Circle of Huskarl
Minmatar Republic
16
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Posted - 2013.05.28 14:10:00 -
[4] - Quote
VLIGHT5 wrote:It's not a waste of SP though... If you want to get something, the skills you buy to get it are not wasted. Having SP sinks is necessary to make people truly commit. Can you imagine if every single skill had an effect on how you played? Or if all of the more skill-sink-requiring skills were available to everyone without investing lots of SP? People would be masters of everything.
Think about it. Every skill that once required lots of SP and time to access would be available to everyone without any long-term specialization. You'd see people switching from proto heavy to proto logi. It would be chaos. Everybody would basically be able to do everything and there'd be no point in specializing if it was all available to you.
Of course, some of the skill sinks could be made a bit smaller, but it's a necessary evil.
i get your point and thats not what im trying to get at. what im talking about is that when you look at a skill it either unlocks a lvl of items or it boosts your items but then you have skills that do neither. they apear to eat isk for no benefit and add more confusion to an already confusing skill stree.
when i look at a skill i should know where im spending my sp and what it gives me. if want a skill boost for arm for example i put points in arm and 1 of 2 things happen. 1 i get a boost or 2 it might unlock an item. with these sp sink skills im having to step back constantly to upgrade them instead of advancing down my chosen path even to the point of unlocking items in another skill tree i dont even use for this example i might be unlocking shield upgrades instead or arm.
what im saying is if these skills were removed and the sp they would have usually needed applied to the other skills which they unlocked it would not only make people take a more specialised path but also ease confusion with selecting that path.
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Circle of Huskarl
Minmatar Republic
16
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Posted - 2013.05.28 14:34:00 -
[5] - Quote
im not asking for the sp to be removed just the skills and transfer that sp onto the skills that they unlocked |
ADAM-OF-EVE
Circle of Huskarl
Minmatar Republic
19
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Posted - 2013.05.28 16:58:00 -
[6] - Quote
Judy Maat wrote:Nebra Tene wrote:From what I understand, he's not complaining about the use of SP, but rather how there is no point whatsoever in those skills to exist, mainly reffering to skills that give no bonus and have "empty" levels.
For example,
Skill lv 1: 10K SP -> Unlock Something
Skill lv 2: 15K SP -> Unlocks Nothing
Skill lv 3: 20K SP -> Unlock Something
Skill lv 4: 25K SP -> Unlocks Nothing
Skill lv 5: 30K SP -> Unlocks Something
Why have lv 2 and lv 4 at all?
Just move lv 3 to l v2 and lv 5 to lv3. make the cost of lv 2 to 35K SP and lv 3 cost 55KSP
It would be the exact same thing but with less clutter.
Correct? skill lv 2 and 4 are just place to add more items in the future that would require lvl 2 and lvl 4 eventually. and as with any ccp game.. all skill have 5 lvl that's just how things are done
actually i meant the skills like dropsuits and dropsuit upgrades. the ones that unlock skills which unlock the gear or skills which increse the effectiveness but dont actually serve any other purpose other than to swallow up isk and sp and provide confusion when working out where you want to specialise.
as for ccp leaving spaces in skills like you mentioned well thats just as bad. putting that down to future proofing is wrong. if that was the case you would just have level 1-3 and the other 2 levels would be for the future proofing. after all who wants new content that is below what you are already are using. and if the gear was more advanced i.e tech2 then they would be lvl4-5 skill requirements anyway. and with ccp able to do skill changes and ballancing at will then there is no need to future proof it
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Circle of Huskarl
Minmatar Republic
29
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Posted - 2013.05.30 19:56:00 -
[7] - Quote
Celeblhach wrote:The OP isn't complaining about the fact that there are skills that serve as prereqs but mainly that those skills do absolutely nothing. Dropsuit Command, Dropsuit Upgrades, Weaponry, Vehicle Command, Vehicle Upgrades, etc. don't actually unlock anything. Skill into level 5 of each without any other skills is the same as someone with no skill points set at all in combat or fitting.
Personally, I think if they just added some small passive boost to each skill, then it would solve the problem and make players feel like they are at least getting something and not just padding SP Trees with ornaments. However, CCP appears to be doing the opposite, since they removed the 2% damage from Weaponry and placed it across the board.
Also, most RPGs that have skill trees have a bonus of some sort at each skill level. Even if virtually negligible, it still exists.
i didnt really want to get into passives as for some that is a touchy subject which over shadows the main point of my post. but your right with the first part.
you want people to feel they have a chance against vets but when they place sp in skills that give them nothing and unlock items they cant afford to loose then something is wrong. its ok for us vets/not so noobs with 4+mil sp and masses of disposable income to compete as we have the points/isk to waste to bring us upto par in some way or another but for new players especially those who are not familier with a skill tree the skill gap is too far. a noob could easily blow all his starter sp into the beginner skills listed in the quote without realising whats happened. i know people who have pretty much done that and had to request the recent respec.
the current skill tree is not progressive. it takes you back and forth constantly and is for alot of potential new merc's very confusing. for us vets we have the sp stockpiled from beta to bypass the problem but for new guys its the first thing in their face before competing against advanced geared vets even crosses their mind |
ADAM-OF-EVE
Circle of Huskarl
Minmatar Republic
41
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Posted - 2013.06.08 17:23:00 -
[8] - Quote
bump |
ADAM-OF-EVE
Circle of Huskarl
Minmatar Republic
46
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Posted - 2013.06.09 16:31:00 -
[9] - Quote
Ten-Sidhe wrote:It is only way to add sp to lv1 of a skill without adding 25x as much sp to the top of the skill.
It is place holder, some small bonus will be attached there once they come up with a good one. Just slapping bonus all over without thinking it through would make vets overpowered.
If they left them out and added them later they would have to do a respec. This gives them some room to add in later at tree base without a respec needed.
The game is planed to be around for many years, these blanks may be filled in in future expansion that comes out in 2-3 years.
For example, weapon attachments are planned, so maybe the currently no bonus weaponry skill will give +5% to weaponry calibration points used to fit scopes and attachments to guns. It would just confuse people if it said that and there was nothing to do with the calibration points yet since the attachment system will come in future expansion when it is finished.
your missing the point. its not about adding bonuses. its about making use of your skill points at lower levels.
a game like dust doesnt need skills for future proofing because you can just add on more to the existing setup. i.e you would just have weapon upgrades skill tree like dropsuits upgradess etc so that point you made is not a viable reason for keeping them.
as for these skills making higher skills cheaper is rediculous as your still having to spend those points across the skills rather direct into the skill you want.
what use is future proofing skills for stuff which isnt even out yet but every noob has to spend skillpoints into before getting onto the skills and items they can use right now. it doesnt make any sense |
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