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Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
173
   |
Posted - 2013.05.28 15:23:00 -
[1] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Zeylon Rho wrote:Saw it left the market with this update. I sort of put off looking at it too much while I already had a passive active, didn't know it was a limited time thing - no text on the market suggested such. Is that going to be coming back at some point (in the 60/90-day flavors perhaps)? Wondering that myself. Think it's a little jacked up that they offer a limited time thing that players who coincidentally had money could stock up on and have an advantage over those who didn't have the expendable funds to stock up on said item. Definitely some pay to win BS right there, and I never pull the "pay to win" card. If it were on the market as a permanent item, it'd be a'ight as EVERYONE has the OPTION to buy it. This was just a ploy to get a lot of money in a hurry from people who had it.
Skill > SP
That said, at least on the passive side, I'm all for keeping the omegas around, and sticking to the regulars on the active side. Primary reason being that it lets players with less time stay a bit more competitive, SP-wise, against those with more time. Meanwhile, the active can be a huge increase to SP for an active player, and it doesn't count against the cap (and based on the sticky, it sounds like it might even keep granting active SP AFTER you hit the cap, which would be really bad). At the same time, player skill still matters more, and the more active players will get better, faster (and have more money to spend on skillbooka and gear; SP doesn't matter if you suck, or just have no money to buy and replace gear). |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
173
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 15:39:00 -
[2] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Geirskoegul wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Zeylon Rho wrote:Saw it left the market with this update. I sort of put off looking at it too much while I already had a passive active, didn't know it was a limited time thing - no text on the market suggested such. Is that going to be coming back at some point (in the 60/90-day flavors perhaps)? Wondering that myself. Think it's a little jacked up that they offer a limited time thing that players who coincidentally had money could stock up on and have an advantage over those who didn't have the expendable funds to stock up on said item. Definitely some pay to win BS right there, and I never pull the "pay to win" card. If it were on the market as a permanent item, it'd be a'ight as EVERYONE has the OPTION to buy it. This was just a ploy to get a lot of money in a hurry from people who had it. Skill > SP That said, at least on the passive side, I'm all for keeping the omegas around, and sticking to the regulars on the active side. Primary reason being that it lets players with less time stay a bit more competitive, SP-wise, against those with more time. Meanwhile, the active can be a huge increase to SP for an active player, and it doesn't count against the cap (and based on the sticky, it sounds like it might even keep granting active SP AFTER you hit the cap, which would be really bad). At the same time, player skill still matters more, and the more active players will get better, faster (and have more money to spend on skillbooka and gear; SP doesn't matter if you suck, or just have no money to buy and replace gear). Has absolutely nothing to do with skill. None at all. Sure, a player with good skill can kill someone with more SP gear. It doesn't matter though, as this is an issue regarding how much SP a player will have five years down the line and that's 150% more with Omega Passive/Active boosters. That's more than twice what -you- will have if you don't dish out.
That doesn't make it pay-to-win, though. This is a common misconception in EVE as well, that you'll never catch up. Here's the thing, though: no matter what, you'll never catch up, without some convoluted and unnecessary sliding scale to reduce gains over time; those that come in later will always be behind on SP compared to the early ones.
The second misconception is that this actually matters. The beauty of the system here and in EVE (and it's been rightfully praised for it) is that a low-SP player can equal a hig-SP player in relatively little time simply by specializing. Can the high SP guy do more than you? Sure, but not simultaneously. He can only bring the skills that apply to his current fit into the fight, just like you.
So at most, you've got a versatility disadvantage, and a slight legitimate disadvantage when you're very new. If you choose to specialize before branching out and diversifying you eliminate the main disadvantage. In very short order the difference between a two month old character and a ten year old character becomes nothing more than skill, eperience, and isk; SP is no longer a factor in your ability to compete (and again, SP wasn't important here to start; if you're good enough, militia works just fine, and that proto fit will cry all the harder when he loses it to you in militia). |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
173
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 15:55:00 -
[3] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:
You're missing the point -entirely-.
It's the fact that this was a limited time booster that was provided for a -week-. Anyone with money could have thrown it at the problem and stockpiled and will now have an everlasting advantage because it's been pulled off the market.
In Eve Online, once you have +5 implants you're making the same SP amount that even a 10 year Veteran is. You're consistent. Even though you're behind, you will always be progressing at the same rate.
It has NOTHING to do with skill. It has NOTHING to do with specialization. This isn't a 'slight' versatility disadvantage, this is an exponential versatility disadvantage. It's like saying that a 10 year veteran player will have more SP than me, not only because he's been playing longer but because he has more money to throw at the problem.
Now do you understand what's going on here or are you still caught up in the "rofl player skill will always beat money".
Edit: Also, specialization doesn't mean jack of **** when you can change suits out after death and at a supply depot. In Eve Online, specialization is everything because a lot of the time you're no-where near where you have all of your gear stockpiled. So that argument is cyclically imbalanced.
Andsince, as has been whinged about, they never said it was temporary, why would people have stockpiled more than a couple? That's a lot of real world money at one time with nothing at all to give any clue that it might be useful to do so.
The only point you have is that it's easier to "reship" in Dust. I'll give you that. That said, if you specialize right at the start, you're already very versatile. So while reshipping in eve is harder, the ships are far more specialized and specific to their roles. In dust it's easier to switch out, but the primary stuff most people would choose to specialize in first are useful in far more places than a ship in eve. It balances out quite well, actually.
You're also still ignoring the fact that SP really just isn't that important in general, and especially not here where the twitch-based gameplay makes skill as a player even more important than in eve.
PS
I have no omegas |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
173
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 16:05:00 -
[4] - Quote
J'Hiera wrote:Zeylon Rho wrote:Saw it left the market with this update. I sort of put off looking at it too much while I already had a passive active, didn't know it was a limited time thing - no text on the market suggested such. Is that going to be coming back at some point (in the 60/90-day flavors perhaps)? It stated on the Store Front "This week only!".
Good catch!
That said, still probably nothing much to worry about; EVE runs power-of-two and other promotions that offer massive discounts on new alt accounts plus gametime, and PLEX specials too. They're not always on, but intermittent sales. Have faith that active omegas will be back (though i hope not, for the reasons i mentioned in my first post). |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
177
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 16:21:00 -
[5] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Geirskoegul wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:
You're missing the point -entirely-.
It's the fact that this was a limited time booster that was provided for a -week-. Anyone with money could have thrown it at the problem and stockpiled and will now have an everlasting advantage because it's been pulled off the market.
In Eve Online, once you have +5 implants you're making the same SP amount that even a 10 year Veteran is. You're consistent. Even though you're behind, you will always be progressing at the same rate.
It has NOTHING to do with skill. It has NOTHING to do with specialization. This isn't a 'slight' versatility disadvantage, this is an exponential versatility disadvantage. It's like saying that a 10 year veteran player will have more SP than me, not only because he's been playing longer but because he has more money to throw at the problem.
Now do you understand what's going on here or are you still caught up in the "rofl player skill will always beat money".
Edit: Also, specialization doesn't mean jack of **** when you can change suits out after death and at a supply depot. In Eve Online, specialization is everything because a lot of the time you're no-where near where you have all of your gear stockpiled. So that argument is cyclically imbalanced.
Andsince, as has been whinged about, they never said it was temporary, why would people have stockpiled more than a couple? That's a lot of real world money at one time with nothing at all to give any clue that it might be useful to do so. The only point you have is that it's easier to "reship" in Dust. I'll give you that. That said, if you specialize right at the start, you're already very versatile. So while reshipping in eve is harder, the ships are far more specialized and specific to their roles. In dust it's easier to switch out, but the primary stuff most people would choose to specialize in first are useful in far more places than a ship in eve. It balances out quite well, actually. You're also still ignoring the fact that SP really just isn't that important in general, and especially not here where the twitch-based gameplay makes skill as a player even more important than in eve. PS I have no omegas You'll mark those words in two years when half of this game is running all proto gear and can change out on the fly. "Specializing right at the start" does not mean you're versatile. If you put all of your SP into a good suit with an assault rifle then throw yourself into a match where the enemy is predominantly using HAVs (3 or more) than you will know right then how badly it sucks to not have the "versatility" you speak of because you didn't have the SP to apply it to the things you need. ESPECIALLY if the nerfs/buffs keep happening the way they do. Edit: Also, in argument of your first post which I have just re-read, you do realize that players who have been around longer can still buy them as well - only making the SP disparity even worse? Or did you forget that?
No, i really won't, because I mostly run militia and slaughter protos no problem; suck less.
As to your misguided attachment to SP, no. Well, maybe, if you're trying to play this squad-based shooter solo, in which case youdeserve to die. The likelihood of no one having the required skills to bring out the "good stuff" is very low. And again, even if you can only use the militia in your theoretical squad of all noobs, it's enough to do what you need.
As with many newer players to eve, you're focusing too much on SP and not how things actually work. This isn't WoW where level and gear matter more than anything else. This isn't Call of Duty where everybody is equal. This is New Eden, this is the EVE universe. Your decisions have consequences, teamwork matters, and not everything is equal, but everything does have a counter. |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
178
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 05:15:00 -
[6] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Geirskoegul wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Geirskoegul wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:
You're missing the point -entirely-.
It's the fact that this was a limited time booster that was provided for a -week-. Anyone with money could have thrown it at the problem and stockpiled and will now have an everlasting advantage because it's been pulled off the market.
In Eve Online, once you have +5 implants you're making the same SP amount that even a 10 year Veteran is. You're consistent. Even though you're behind, you will always be progressing at the same rate.
It has NOTHING to do with skill. It has NOTHING to do with specialization. This isn't a 'slight' versatility disadvantage, this is an exponential versatility disadvantage. It's like saying that a 10 year veteran player will have more SP than me, not only because he's been playing longer but because he has more money to throw at the problem.
Now do you understand what's going on here or are you still caught up in the "rofl player skill will always beat money".
Edit: Also, specialization doesn't mean jack of **** when you can change suits out after death and at a supply depot. In Eve Online, specialization is everything because a lot of the time you're no-where near where you have all of your gear stockpiled. So that argument is cyclically imbalanced.
Andsince, as has been whinged about, they never said it was temporary, why would people have stockpiled more than a couple? That's a lot of real world money at one time with nothing at all to give any clue that it might be useful to do so. The only point you have is that it's easier to "reship" in Dust. I'll give you that. That said, if you specialize right at the start, you're already very versatile. So while reshipping in eve is harder, the ships are far more specialized and specific to their roles. In dust it's easier to switch out, but the primary stuff most people would choose to specialize in first are useful in far more places than a ship in eve. It balances out quite well, actually. You're also still ignoring the fact that SP really just isn't that important in general, and especially not here where the twitch-based gameplay makes skill as a player even more important than in eve. PS I have no omegas You'll mark those words in two years when half of this game is running all proto gear and can change out on the fly. "Specializing right at the start" does not mean you're versatile. If you put all of your SP into a good suit with an assault rifle then throw yourself into a match where the enemy is predominantly using HAVs (3 or more) than you will know right then how badly it sucks to not have the "versatility" you speak of because you didn't have the SP to apply it to the things you need. ESPECIALLY if the nerfs/buffs keep happening the way they do. Edit: Also, in argument of your first post which I have just re-read, you do realize that players who have been around longer can still buy them as well - only making the SP disparity even worse? Or did you forget that? No, i really won't, because I mostly run militia and slaughter protos no problem; suck less. As to your misguided attachment to SP, no. Well, maybe, if you're trying to play this squad-based shooter solo, in which case youdeserve to die. The likelihood of no one having the required skills to bring out the "good stuff" is very low. And again, even if you can only use the militia in your theoretical squad of all noobs, it's enough to do what you need. As with many newer players to eve, you're focusing too much on SP and not how things actually work. This isn't WoW where level and gear matter more than anything else. This isn't Call of Duty where everybody is equal. This is New Eden, this is the EVE universe. Your decisions have consequences, teamwork matters, and not everything is equal, but everything does have a counter. You switch to my counter, I switch to your counter and OH NO you didn't invest SP into what counters my role! Suppose you're stuck with what you have then. If only you'd gotten those Omega Boosters a year and a half ago.
Once again displaying your ignorance of the mechanics. If you didn't spec into it, that's your problem; the odds that NO ONE spec'd into it are fairly low. If no one did, be glad that numbers can make up for a lot (just ask the goons).
Your whinge really boils down to "he's got more than me." The fact of the matter is that there will always be someone that has more than you. The nice thing is that the thing you're complaining about him having more of simply doesn't matter if you don't suck. Just as in EVE, it really doesn't matter much. |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
178
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 05:17:00 -
[7] - Quote
THE GREY CARDINAL wrote:I dare say this Omega booster was a tracer bullet to see how SP hungry the masses are. I think down the line we will get Omega actives and passives as an upper tier offering...and I'll probably bite hook line and sinker. :  Not cause I need the skills, I just like maxing crap out like on Skyrim. :D
More likely it was just a special, like Power-of-Two or PLEX Discount promotions they do occasionally on the EVE side.
Me? I'd have preferred a subscription model over a microtransaction model in the first place (especially if there was some kind of bonus or discount for subbing both Dust and EVE), so for me, I intend to keep a passive booster in at all times. It's a nice little boost that'll make up for my lack of play time, and at a trivial price. |
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