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hgghyujh
Expert Intervention Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 10:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
I know there has been a lot of threads hating on the highly abuse-able LAV, asking you to fix it, and I'm here to tell you why that is the worst thing you could do.
Last build amazed me at its weapons balance, it wasn't perfect but damn near. My greatest sadness was just how pointless it was to skill into light AV, I hadn't enjoyed it since the EA build, when I could get WP for damage and I blamed the lake of damage WP for their lack of point.
I was wrong.
A friend of mine convinced me to jump into a swarm fit just a free fit with a STD swarm and a toxin, and to my surprise what did I find, that the culprit to the death of light AV was well the lack of vehicles, and the lack of vehicles was because they where just a waste of time, something to get you from one side of the map to the other almost as fast as a scout. Now with their survivability and more pleasant driving every one is using them and hence they are an annoyance.....or a feast.
This game adapts so slowly, as people are so very miserly with their SP(as it should be), so when a threat like more vehicles becomes common every one attempts to defend the skill points they've spent by declaring it an abuse. But if that threat is left long enough in game players start to take the steps to counter it, if LAVs are left in large portions of random teams will have an AV suit waiting to beat them down, there will be some like me who will make it their role on the battle field, and not just some stupid weapon that they have if some vehicle abusing ******* won't leave them alone, who they then ***** about on the forums shortly afterwards and use as an example of how OP weapons are.
So while every one is complaining about lavs and I'm laughing all the way to the bank. I'm struck with an idea the suit I am using is cheap and yet I have this phenomenal isk efficiency and a KDR that's comparable with the one I have in proto fits, A new player could do quite well for himself this is the equivalent of the tackler in eve, quick to get into and indispensable in any team, freeing up the more skilled and better geared players to handle the more brutal front line fights. To test this theory eliminate the effect of core skills I built a new character and found that in the time it took me to build up the isk for skill books(a few hours of play) I could field a STD MMF, with a STD swarm, and STD SMG, with a nano hive and flux grenades. and this frame is quite capable of bringing down even proto gear in one on one CQC and can fend off almost three dedicated lavers at once(less if they are logi lavs).
TLDR; in summery: 1)people complain about vehicles because no one main specs AV with the exception of forge gunners which are not the best for taking out lavs
2)there are no dedicated AVer because there were not enough vehicles to keep them busy, because vehicles were flimsy and could not be recalled.
3)light AV is a great beginner profession, as it takes little SP to be effective and frees up players that are more capable to focus on the push, while providing new players with a good fight and a sense of accomplishment.
4)more dedicated AV and players capable of fielding AV means tanks can actually be allowed a tank that doesn't disappear under the fire of one infantry member, also less gripes about OP vehicles and more "educating" people on the virtues of AV
Conclusion: This game promises to be a role based shooter, but if vehicles do not provide a strong, persistent role on the battle field(currently they are mostly a gimmick and nothing more, tho current buffs have helped to change that), then AV cannot be a full time role, and if AV is not a full time roll then Vehicles must be nerfed to the point that it is not worth the time or skill investment. The ever presence of all vehicles on the battle field is a critical part of keeping this game healthy, Lavs should remain as they are, DS need another look at, and tanks should be revisited when AV is common place in every match. |
Tech Ohm Eaven
L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION
507
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 11:03:00 -
[2] - Quote
hgghyujh wrote:I know there has been a lot of threads hating on the highly abuse-able LAV, asking you to fix it, and I'm here to tell you why that is the worst thing you could do.
Last build amazed me at its weapons balance, it wasn't perfect but damn near. My greatest sadness was just how pointless it was to skill into light AV, I hadn't enjoyed it since the EA build, when I could get WP for damage and I blamed the lake of damage WP for their lack of point.
I was wrong.
A friend of mine convinced me to jump into a swarm fit just a free fit with a STD swarm and a toxin, and to my surprise what did I find, that the culprit to the death of light AV was well the lack of vehicles, and the lack of vehicles was because they where just a waste of time, something to get you from one side of the map to the other almost as fast as a scout. Now with their survivability and more pleasant driving every one is using them and hence they are an annoyance.....or a feast.
This game adapts so slowly, as people are so very miserly with their SP(as it should be), so when a threat like more vehicles becomes common every one attempts to defend the skill points they've spent by declaring it an abuse. But if that threat is left long enough in game players start to take the steps to counter it, if LAVs are left in large portions of random teams will have an AV suit waiting to beat them down, there will be some like me who will make it their role on the battle field, and not just some stupid weapon that they have if some vehicle abusing ******* won't leave them alone, who they then ***** about on the forums shortly afterwards and use as an example of how OP weapons are.
So while every one is complaining about lavs and I'm laughing all the way to the bank. I'm struck with an idea the suit I am using is cheap and yet I have this phenomenal isk efficiency and a KDR that's comparable with the one I have in proto fits, A new player could do quite well for himself this is the equivalent of the tackler in eve, quick to get into and indispensable in any team, freeing up the more skilled and better geared players to handle the more brutal front line fights. To test this theory eliminate the effect of core skills I built a new character and found that in the time it took me to build up the isk for skill books(a few hours of play) I could field a STD MMF, with a STD swarm, and STD SMG, with a nano hive and flux grenades. and this frame is quite capable of bringing down even proto gear in one on one CQC and can fend off almost three dedicated lavers at once(less if they are logi lavs).
TLDR; in summery: 1)people complain about vehicles because no one main specs AV with the exception of forge gunners which are not the best for taking out lavs
2)there are no dedicated AVer because there were not enough vehicles to keep them busy, because vehicles were flimsy and could not be recalled.
3)light AV is a great beginner profession, as it takes little SP to be effective and frees up players that are more capable to focus on the push, while providing new players with a good fight and a sense of accomplishment.
4)more dedicated AV and players capable of fielding AV means tanks can actually be allowed a tank that doesn't disappear under the fire of one infantry member, also less gripes about OP vehicles and more "educating" people on the virtues of AV
Conclusion: This game promises to be a role based shooter, but if vehicles do not provide a strong, persistent role on the battle field(currently they are mostly a gimmick and nothing more, tho current buffs have helped to change that), then AV cannot be a full time role, and if AV is not a full time roll then Vehicles must be nerfed to the point that it is not worth the time or skill investment. The ever presence of all vehicles on the battle field is a critical part of keeping this game healthy, Lavs should remain as they are, DS need another look at, and tanks should be revisited when AV is common place in every match. PROTOTYPE swarm launcher useless versus most jeeps.....lol |
hgghyujh
Expert Intervention Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 11:08:00 -
[3] - Quote
????? explain your self sir I have taken down every type of jeep out there with STD swarm how could 50% more damage be useless? |
hgghyujh
Expert Intervention Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 11:13:00 -
[4] - Quote
or if you prefer I can word it this way awwwwww did your proto swarm not blow up a LAV in one shot?? |
pegasis prime
The Shadow Cavalry Mercenaries DARKSTAR ARMY
183
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 11:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
I have no idea what hes on about I see wioming swarms popping lavs quite often . Granted they mostly come from dammage mod stacked caldari logis. If you cant kill an lav with proto swarms your doing it wrong . |
Daedric Lothar
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
485
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 11:18:00 -
[6] - Quote
I enjoyed reading this, usually I just TL;DR. But I like it. |
hgghyujh
Expert Intervention Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 23:49:00 -
[7] - Quote
wow thank you I was not expecting a good response on this one. |
Godin Thekiller
Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack
126
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 02:32:00 -
[8] - Quote
agreed. Same thing happened to HAV's. They'll get theirs soon enough. |
Skihids
The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION
1507
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 18:13:00 -
[9] - Quote
Excellent logic and reasoning in the OP. +1 |
Treablo James Howard
WarRavens
1
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 18:21:00 -
[10] - Quote
Proto swarm.
Takes at least 2 shots. To take out 1 LAV. (some take 3-4)
I have ~ 3 seconds between when I take my first shot till I can fire the next one.
LAV's are fast enough to out run my swarms if not hide behind something.
So when I have to pop the same number of swarms into an LAV as I do a tank. Its a bit odd!'
My main suit is Scout AV. ( not to the fullest) but enough to where the proto swarm feels lacking compared to advanced AV grenades.
/2cents |
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Bones McGavins
TacoCat Industries
267
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 19:02:00 -
[11] - Quote
Nope. Here is where you are wrong. Its not lack of vehicals that make people stray from AV, its not wanting to be at a disadvantage to all the non AV/Vehical infantry dudes.
99% of the players have a "let someone else do it" opinion when it comes to AV even when theres plenty of tanks and plenty of LAV out there.
Why? It has a low risk versus reward when it comes to pretty much everything. I could spawn with an AR, shotty or scrambler rifle and run around murdering infantry in 1 hit. Or I could chase around an LAV while most my missiles hit hill tops and even if I dont, the LAV just runs off and heals. Meanwhile I sniped by some redline sniper.
AV isnt fun. Tankers make up a false argument about losing to AV one on one, but it doesnt happen, not if they arent terrible.
The facts are, HAV and to some extent LAV users pay heafty ISK for an advantage. So AV users are going into those fights at a disadvantage. Playing AV is like playing a militia suit versus proto gear. Its winnable sure, and the thrill of "HAH screw you I beat you despite the advantage you paid for!" is fun. Very few players would seek out a role to be at a disadvantage.
And heres what makes it worse.
Vehicle users are playing against AV units, but non AV units arent remotely a threat to them. So for the vehicle user, all the 15 other players on the field dont matter, just that 1 AV unit. The AV unit? All those guys pose a huge threat to him. And by chosing AV he has gimped his ability to fight them.
So not only are you at a disadvantage against the HAV or LV you chose to fit yourself to compete with, you are at a disadvantage to the other 15 AR users out there.
That is not a fun situation to be in constantly. Sure, at times its fun to throw yourself into that underdog role and see if you can thrive, but it isnt a game most folks would want to play often. Maybe you are different, but most of us arent. I play AV a decent amount to chase off the LAV spam and the occasional HAV. But I hate every moment of it. I just do it so I can get back to playing a more fair fight. It feels like work, it isnt fun. Thats why nobody plays AV.
|
Immovable 0bject
DIOS EX. Gentlemen's Agreement
6
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 20:12:00 -
[12] - Quote
Great read OP and I completely agree with almost everything you said. |
Immovable 0bject
DIOS EX. Gentlemen's Agreement
6
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 20:15:00 -
[13] - Quote
Great read OP and I completely agree with almost everything you said. |
TcuBe3
THE STAR BORN Dark Taboo
5
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 20:18:00 -
[14] - Quote
The bottom line is people hate LAVs because they are not used as they were designed, maby that is because every swinging **** in the field has an endless supply of them. |
Cosgar's Alt
Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic
44
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 20:18:00 -
[15] - Quote
Sorry, but you lost me when you said Chrome had weapon balance. Seems like everyone forgets about playing laser tag and killing snipers with an AR. |
Treablo James Howard
WarRavens
2
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 22:17:00 -
[16] - Quote
haha. The best I do against good tank drivers with my proto gear is. Hey squad I got him to hid in the redzone for a couple minutes.
/runtosupplydepot
Rinse and repeat. |
Bones McGavins
TacoCat Industries
271
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 14:29:00 -
[17] - Quote
Treablo James Howard wrote:haha. The best I do against good tank drivers with my proto gear is. Hey squad I got him to hid in the redzone for a couple minutes.
/runtosupplydepot
Rinse and repeat.
Yep. Super rewarding experience...simply chasing off an HAV all game. Lots of fun to be had there. |
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