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Noc Tempre
Commando Perkone Caldari State
1680
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Posted - 2013.05.27 21:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
If the match is decided before the fight, and there are no tools to fix it, just end the fight and not waste people's time. The game is FPS first. If you just wanted to play EVE buy a PC, there is more to do there.
Edit: to elaborate, AWOXing should not be encouraged in the first place. If we have no control who we are fighting with, the game is completely noncompetitive. A betrayal at the management level sure, but any individual grunt should be easy and painless to fix, even if they did cause damage in the first place. |
Noc Tempre
Commando Perkone Caldari State
1680
|
Posted - 2013.05.27 21:22:00 -
[2] - Quote
KingBabar wrote:SO.... You left the Imps....?
God dammit, this was cereal thread! |
Noc Tempre
Commando Perkone Caldari State
1680
|
Posted - 2013.05.27 21:29:00 -
[3] - Quote
Geirskoegul wrote:Screen your recruits properly; problem solved.
That's the thing, you shouldn't have to work so hard and take the game so seriously just to get to the actual FPS part. I am all for meta giving the battles context, but the meta should not OVERRIDE the battle or they have no real purpose. |
Noc Tempre
Commando Perkone Caldari State
1680
|
Posted - 2013.05.27 21:34:00 -
[4] - Quote
Iskandar Zul Karnain wrote:Isn't there a fix in the pipe for this? In the mean time most corps have set up holding corps. An imperfect solution but certainly effective.
But CCP stated they don't want to allow kicking. So they want you to sit there and do meaningless fighting while you fight men down and they suicide in the MCC. What's the point of showing up? |
Noc Tempre
Commando Perkone Caldari State
1683
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Posted - 2013.05.27 21:39:00 -
[5] - Quote
Geirskoegul wrote:Noc Tempre wrote:Geirskoegul wrote:Screen your recruits properly; problem solved. That's the thing, you shouldn't have to work so hard and take the game so seriously just to get to the actual FPS part. I am all for meta giving the battles context, but the meta should not OVERRIDE the battle or they have no real purpose. You don't, there's still FW (where FF is disabled, even though it shouldn't be), and there's still instant action (honestly, where I've run into my stiffest opposition; FF is disabled here too). There's not even a difference in the points or money you earn, except for the more META benefits of PC. The fact is, EVE is not a nice place. If you don't want to be shot in the back, stop recruiting ******* randoms out of local. Play a few matches with people before asking if they want to apply. Be suspicious of anyone that applies without having played with you a bunch, especially if you haven't asked them if they want to apply. There are so many SIMPLE things you can do while STILL enjoying the game, that helps screen against these people. Even if you turn FF off in corp matches, what's to stop them from infiltrating and just sitting there, wasting slots while the other side wipes the floor with you? Quite simply, there's no way at all to prevent AWOXing of one kind or another, other than mitigating the risk by proper screening of recruits. It should require betrayal, not just sloppy mechanics that can be exploited. |
Noc Tempre
Commando Perkone Caldari State
1685
|
Posted - 2013.05.27 22:05:00 -
[6] - Quote
Crash Monster wrote:Perhaps you missed the memo... DUST is within the EVE universe... you don't get decide how much of EVE CCP is going to bring to DUST.
I guarantee you it won't be zero.
P.S. Length of time in or imaginary legendary status from a bygone era does not confer immunity from anything.
Don't speak on that which you do not know.
And I am all for meta generating the context. Just not at the expense of the actual enjoyable fights. |
Noc Tempre
Commando Perkone Caldari State
1686
|
Posted - 2013.05.27 22:19:00 -
[7] - Quote
Crash Monster wrote:Noc Tempre wrote:Don't speak on that which you do not know.
Just as soon as early arrivals stop sounding like pompous asses. You own nothing. You are owed nothing. You are nothing. Just like everyone else.
Which includes you. |
Noc Tempre
Commando Perkone Caldari State
1688
|
Posted - 2013.05.27 22:31:00 -
[8] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:I think ringers should be able to be kicked at any time, at least.
I believe this is fair. Then AWOXing would be attaining kick powers, not just allowed to battle. |
Noc Tempre
Commando Perkone Caldari State
1690
|
Posted - 2013.05.27 23:03:00 -
[9] - Quote
Geirskoegul wrote: And how would you propose doing that? Come up with a system in which no one can shoot a friendly, deliberately waste a slot, or repeatedly kill themselves to help the enemy team.
For that matter, it would be a trivial matter to just follow along with the unit and appear to follow orders, while intentionally not killing anything (or only doing so when it won't hurt the other side.)
I'd love to hear your suggestions, short of a kick button (inappropriate; you brought them along, you're stuck with them and the fact that they decided to fight for the other guy instead of you is now your problem to deal with). But really, there's nothing you can do to stop it, so do what you CAN to stop it: screen people like you should be doing in ANY game, regardless of the consequences; I dunno about you, but I'm not fond of playing with annoying assholes.
Simple, give a kick button. There is no reason to have a 15 minute match if it can be thrown in the first 5 seconds by getting on the roster. It is totally appropriate.
Btw, the meta you suggest would be fantastic, and an excellent line to walk for a spy. Not this "you're stuck with me" BS. |
Noc Tempre
Commando Perkone Caldari State
1690
|
Posted - 2013.05.27 23:24:00 -
[10] - Quote
Geirskoegul wrote:Noc Tempre wrote:Geirskoegul wrote: And how would you propose doing that? Come up with a system in which no one can shoot a friendly, deliberately waste a slot, or repeatedly kill themselves to help the enemy team.
For that matter, it would be a trivial matter to just follow along with the unit and appear to follow orders, while intentionally not killing anything (or only doing so when it won't hurt the other side.)
I'd love to hear your suggestions, short of a kick button (inappropriate; you brought them along, you're stuck with them and the fact that they decided to fight for the other guy instead of you is now your problem to deal with). But really, there's nothing you can do to stop it, so do what you CAN to stop it: screen people like you should be doing in ANY game, regardless of the consequences; I dunno about you, but I'm not fond of playing with annoying assholes.
Simple, give a kick button. There is no reason to have a 15 minute match if it can be thrown in the first 5 seconds by getting on the roster. It is totally appropriate. Btw, the meta you suggest would be fantastic, and an excellent line to walk for a spy. Not this "you're stuck with me" BS. That's not a fix for the issue, though, that's a fix for the symptom. The issue is grouping up with any random. Now others here have mentioned that people can invite non-corpies into the PC matches? That I would say is an issue, given the limited size of matches at the moment. I'd be fine with a kick button that would only work on players not in the attacking/defending corp in a PC match. But if you accepted a spai or traitor into your corp and then brought them into the match, you should be stuck with them; no one held a gun to your head and made you accept their application to join.
There are different trust levels. I trust the person calling the shots more than I trust the others, or he wouldn't be calling the shots. If he wants to change that personnel, for any reason, he should have that power. Screwing up the actual fight in progress should be difficult and not encouraged to be honest. |
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Noc Tempre
Commando Perkone Caldari State
1695
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 00:31:00 -
[11] - Quote
Skihids wrote:The solution is childishly simple.
Create a squad leader role for PC that allows one to join a PC match with a squad. Allow that leader to remove someone from his squad.
You keep your meta-game as an infiltrator could attain the rank of squad leader. You eliminate huge gaping security crater of allowing anybody in the corp to join and invite any of his friends along.
It's done in business today to protect assets far less valuable than planetary districts.
Access to the server room is granted to select people who can then bring others into the room as required. No business just leaves the door wide open for any member of the corporation to wander in with his friends. If someone violates security the business can electronically remove that person's security access.
I like this option. Furthermore it is easily scalable. |
Noc Tempre
Commando Perkone Caldari State
1696
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 04:13:00 -
[12] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Considering that shooting the enemy is also metagaming. I don't see why it should STOP on the ground, its what you're getting paid to kill.
The meta interfering is a problem. If 1 person can tank the whole match, just give them a "lose battle and leave corp" button. No fun having people show up and no one to fight. |
Noc Tempre
Commando Perkone Caldari State
1696
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 04:13:00 -
[13] - Quote
Skihids wrote:DigiOps wrote:AWOXing doesn't need a dev fix. It needs a player fix. Screen members better. If someone really wants to be a spy, they'll have to be undercover for a while. Make them work for it. What made AWOXing a thing was that it was easy. It needs a role fix, then the players can use that role to control access to PC. As it stands you would need to apply director level standards and interviews to every single recruit and that's asinine. It's like making CCP hand out the root password to Tranquility to every single employee they hire and telling them to just "be careful" when hiring. It's completely inadequate.
This man gets it. |
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