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Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
162
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Posted - 2013.05.27 21:22:00 -
[1] - Quote
Screen your recruits properly; problem solved. |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
163
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Posted - 2013.05.27 21:37:00 -
[2] - Quote
Noc Tempre wrote:Geirskoegul wrote:Screen your recruits properly; problem solved. That's the thing, you shouldn't have to work so hard and take the game so seriously just to get to the actual FPS part. I am all for meta giving the battles context, but the meta should not OVERRIDE the battle or they have no real purpose.
You don't, there's still FW (where FF is disabled, even though it shouldn't be), and there's still instant action (honestly, where I've run into my stiffest opposition; FF is disabled here too). There's not even a difference in the points or money you earn, except for the more META benefits of PC.
The fact is, EVE is not a nice place. If you don't want to be shot in the back, stop recruiting ******* randoms out of local. Play a few matches with people before asking if they want to apply. Be suspicious of anyone that applies without having played with you a bunch, especially if you haven't asked them if they want to apply.
There are so many SIMPLE things you can do while STILL enjoying the game, that helps screen against these people. Even if you turn FF off in corp matches, what's to stop them from infiltrating and just sitting there, wasting slots while the other side wipes the floor with you?
Quite simply, there's no way at all to prevent AWOXing of one kind or another, other than mitigating the risk by proper screening of recruits. |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
165
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Posted - 2013.05.27 22:10:00 -
[3] - Quote
Panther Alpha wrote:Dusty Sampson wrote:FPS or not, it's still New Eden. Anything goes. You meant Dust 514, right ?.. New Eden is a Sector in EvE space, that most Dust mercenaries don't even know exist...We don't even have windows in our quarters... 
No, New Eden IS EVE space. New Eden is the galaxy that EVERYTHING in both EVE and Dust takes place in. |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
165
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Posted - 2013.05.27 22:12:00 -
[4] - Quote
Noc Tempre wrote:Geirskoegul wrote:Noc Tempre wrote:Geirskoegul wrote:Screen your recruits properly; problem solved. That's the thing, you shouldn't have to work so hard and take the game so seriously just to get to the actual FPS part. I am all for meta giving the battles context, but the meta should not OVERRIDE the battle or they have no real purpose. You don't, there's still FW (where FF is disabled, even though it shouldn't be), and there's still instant action (honestly, where I've run into my stiffest opposition; FF is disabled here too). There's not even a difference in the points or money you earn, except for the more META benefits of PC. The fact is, EVE is not a nice place. If you don't want to be shot in the back, stop recruiting ******* randoms out of local. Play a few matches with people before asking if they want to apply. Be suspicious of anyone that applies without having played with you a bunch, especially if you haven't asked them if they want to apply. There are so many SIMPLE things you can do while STILL enjoying the game, that helps screen against these people. Even if you turn FF off in corp matches, what's to stop them from infiltrating and just sitting there, wasting slots while the other side wipes the floor with you? Quite simply, there's no way at all to prevent AWOXing of one kind or another, other than mitigating the risk by proper screening of recruits. It should require betrayal, not just sloppy mechanics that can be exploited.
And how would you propose doing that? Come up with a system in which no one can shoot a friendly, deliberately waste a slot, or repeatedly kill themselves to help the enemy team.
For that matter, it would be a trivial matter to just follow along with the unit and appear to follow orders, while intentionally not killing anything (or only doing so when it won't hurt the other side.)
I'd love to hear your suggestions, short of a kick button (inappropriate; you brought them along, you're stuck with them and the fact that they decided to fight for the other guy instead of you is now your problem to deal with). But really, there's nothing you can do to stop it, so do what you CAN to stop it: screen people like you should be doing in ANY game, regardless of the consequences; I dunno about you, but I'm not fond of playing with annoying assholes. |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
168
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Posted - 2013.05.27 23:14:00 -
[5] - Quote
Noc Tempre wrote:Geirskoegul wrote:
And how would you propose doing that? Come up with a system in which no one can shoot a friendly, deliberately waste a slot, or repeatedly kill themselves to help the enemy team.
For that matter, it would be a trivial matter to just follow along with the unit and appear to follow orders, while intentionally not killing anything (or only doing so when it won't hurt the other side.)
I'd love to hear your suggestions, short of a kick button (inappropriate; you brought them along, you're stuck with them and the fact that they decided to fight for the other guy instead of you is now your problem to deal with). But really, there's nothing you can do to stop it, so do what you CAN to stop it: screen people like you should be doing in ANY game, regardless of the consequences; I dunno about you, but I'm not fond of playing with annoying assholes.
Simple, give a kick button. There is no reason to have a 15 minute match if it can be thrown in the first 5 seconds by getting on the roster. It is totally appropriate. Btw, the meta you suggest would be fantastic, and an excellent line to walk for a spy. Not this "you're stuck with me" BS.
That's not a fix for the issue, though, that's a fix for the symptom. The issue is grouping up with any random.
Now others here have mentioned that people can invite non-corpies into the PC matches? That I would say is an issue, given the limited size of matches at the moment. I'd be fine with a kick button that would only work on players not in the attacking/defending corp in a PC match. But if you accepted a spai or traitor into your corp and then brought them into the match, you should be stuck with them; no one held a gun to your head and made you accept their application to join. |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
169
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Posted - 2013.05.27 23:44:00 -
[6] - Quote
Noc Tempre wrote:Geirskoegul wrote:Noc Tempre wrote:Geirskoegul wrote:
And how would you propose doing that? Come up with a system in which no one can shoot a friendly, deliberately waste a slot, or repeatedly kill themselves to help the enemy team.
For that matter, it would be a trivial matter to just follow along with the unit and appear to follow orders, while intentionally not killing anything (or only doing so when it won't hurt the other side.)
I'd love to hear your suggestions, short of a kick button (inappropriate; you brought them along, you're stuck with them and the fact that they decided to fight for the other guy instead of you is now your problem to deal with). But really, there's nothing you can do to stop it, so do what you CAN to stop it: screen people like you should be doing in ANY game, regardless of the consequences; I dunno about you, but I'm not fond of playing with annoying assholes.
Simple, give a kick button. There is no reason to have a 15 minute match if it can be thrown in the first 5 seconds by getting on the roster. It is totally appropriate. Btw, the meta you suggest would be fantastic, and an excellent line to walk for a spy. Not this "you're stuck with me" BS. That's not a fix for the issue, though, that's a fix for the symptom. The issue is grouping up with any random. Now others here have mentioned that people can invite non-corpies into the PC matches? That I would say is an issue, given the limited size of matches at the moment. I'd be fine with a kick button that would only work on players not in the attacking/defending corp in a PC match. But if you accepted a spai or traitor into your corp and then brought them into the match, you should be stuck with them; no one held a gun to your head and made you accept their application to join. There are different trust levels. I trust the person calling the shots more than I trust the others, or he wouldn't be calling the shots. If he wants to change that personnel, for any reason, he should have that power. Screwing up the actual fight in progress should be difficult and not encouraged to be honest.
Again, how is this not solved by simply doing some basic screening before inviting them? We're not talking about public matches, or even FW (where there really isn't any meta), we're talking about Planetary Conquest, THE game mode for interacting and impacting EVE Online, with all the meta and political intrigue and consequence that involves.
If anyone, regardless of corp roles, is able to invite people into a match, then I agree, leaders should be able to kick people on their team that aren't in their corp.
If only leaders can invite someone from outside the corp into a match, they shouldn't be able to kick them; they had the trust, they betrayed you (or exercised bad judgement, either way, they should have to live with the consequences.)
Lastly, if it's a corp member doing the AWOXing, then they should not be able to be kicked from the match, because that's a management failure in the recruiting process. He cost you the match, ok, kick him from the corp when it's done, and be more cautious next time. |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
169
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Posted - 2013.05.27 23:53:00 -
[7] - Quote
ZeHealingHurts HurtingHeals wrote:I think that it is currently just like it should be.
After all, in real life when people notice someone on their side of opposing forces deliberately doing something to hinder their sides' performance they go "HEY, your actually killing our own? Well, you can stay, but know that you are being glared at and fill the entire team with disappointment."
No, they'd shoot him and be done with it. The only reason this isn't an option in PC is because of the annoying tickets system. Instead, you be pro-active instead of reactive, and you try to prevent a problem from occurring in the first place.
In a real fight, you couldn't magically make that guy disappear, as the kick button being requested would do, you have to deal with the saboteur. Difference is, at least in Dust you'll see who it is; much harder to root them out in RL. |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
178
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Posted - 2013.05.29 05:28:00 -
[8] - Quote
CrotchGrab 360 wrote:Noc Tempre wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Considering that shooting the enemy is also metagaming. I don't see why it should STOP on the ground, its what you're getting paid to kill. The meta interfering is a problem. If 1 person can tank the whole match, just give them a "lose battle and leave corp" button. No fun having people show up and no one to fight. it isn't fun, no. it's childish, CCP will fix it or let their game be doomed by children who seriously need to be beat by their parents more. Grief Uni I am staring directly at you; through a sight on a tactical AR.
And that's why you should screen your recruits better. The meta is every bit as important in PC in Dust as it is on the EVE side. Hell, even the official, sanctioned tournaments have meta, with spais revealing fleet compositions and setups, or people even being bought off to throw the match!
This is simply part of the game, and an optional one at that; no one is forcing you to participate in Planetary Conquest, where Dust meets EVE in the most extreme way. If you want to avoid the metagaming that is at the heart of EVE, stick to the modes that aren't meant to be the heart of EVE and Dust's interaction. FW is still fun (when people aren't OSing their own positions as an i-win button; we really do need FF turned on), and the toughest opponents honestly seem to be in the instant-action matches.
So if what you want is straight-up honest fragging? Head to instant action, where the only consequences are that of replacing your fittings and there's zero incentive to AWOX (well, unless they just hate you; but since friendly fire is off, there's nothing they can do against you directly, and very little indirectly). |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
179
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Posted - 2013.05.29 07:05:00 -
[9] - Quote
hgghyujh wrote:CCP has already stated that they are implementing a fix to prevent this from happening and I do agree in this case it is not like eve, as it currently stands awoxing olny serves to freeze bringing new members into the corp, It should require a betrayal of trust not some random in your corp spamming the join battle button.
CCP is first implementing a white list and then a corp role that would allow them to select who will be in the battle or sommat like that.
frankly tho I would like to see PC opened up with some more regions and a merc contract tab added that would post the contracts that alliances put up for other mercs to defend their space, of course with a collateral and an all or nothing payout. for example the size of the payout and the size of the collateral would be based on the value that district had to them and how much someone might pay to have the contractees to throw the match, If the contractees fail to with they lose the collateral and get no isk for the match.
And that's a reasonable fix: corp roles to be able to invite / participate.
Kicks (after the match has started) are not a good fix, because it eliminates consequence. |
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