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Matakage
WildCard Ninja Clan
229
   |
Posted - 2013.05.27 21:07:00 -
[1] - Quote
My illustration about "Solving MCC Camping" was a joke, obviously, but since I was challenged with the old "things are how they are and you should just accept them because they can't be changed" mantra, I of course had to attempt to tackle the issue.
While my illustration doesn't solve all SP farming, it does solve MCC SP farming, which is part of the problem. And it ruins immersion, does it? Someone really said that. How many Dust 514 players are going to have their little hearts broken because they can't promenade around a waiting room before jumping down a hole? Give me a freaking break.
Anyway, the problem with balance or farming or any other issue in video games is never the player. This is a video game, and the players in that video game are restricted to the rules of that video game world. When you see a player exploit something in a game, it is never the player's fault. The developers are the gods of this world, and if they can't use their omnipotence to solve every problem, it's not because it can't be solved -- it's because they haven't thought of a good enough solution yet.
Here's a really simple question: Why is there no experience cap in Battlefield 3 or Call of Duty...? And if you think I'm comparing apples to oranges, I'm not. People have tried to farm experience in BF3, but it was patched. (In Hardcore mode, you could hide with another teammate, kill, them, and revive them for free experience.)
The reason is that the experience systems of Battlefield 3 and Call of Duty are not exploitable.
AFK SP Farming in Dust 514 is an exploit by definition, and the seemingly most sensible way to solve this is to get rid of passive SP. However, many who oppose getting rid of it bring up a very valid point: For many new players, passive SP is their only source of SP for their entire match. And it's true. One of the things that sets Dust apart from BF3 and COD is that it is understood that all players are not on the same playing field; players with more allocated SP are just plain better. (Not skill-wise, but damage and EHP are everything in a FPS game.) It's quite possible for a new player to gain zero WP in a match, so passive SP needs to stay. For rookies, anyway...
So if you can't get rid of passive SP without screwing over the rookie players, how do you get rid of this terrible exploit?
Well another thing that comes to mind is just having the game kick players automatically who are AFK. (You know, like every single other online FPS game ever made.) However, the unique ability to successfully hide on the edge of the map makes it possible for a player to technically move while staying hidden. They could rubber-band their left analog on their controller in a way that has them constantly walking forward into a stationary object. There! Technically "moving," therefore not AFK. Oh, but could the game be smart enough to detect this simple movement as being "not random enough," therefore most likely AFK and still kick? Well now we're trying to write complex programming to tell the difference between humans and robots. Not worth the effort.
But wait a second.. Wasn't the only valid argument for passive SP that the rookies need it? In the last patch, the developers demonstrated the ability to organize rookies from veteran players when they created the Battle Academy, which separated players based on lifetime WP earned.
Could this same system put a restriction on how long a player could utilize passive SP during their career?
Imagine that -- until a player reaches a certain amount of WP, they'll get passive SP. After that, sorry bud.
Wait... Cue the screeching car crash noise.
AFK SP Farmers don't get WP... because you only get WP by participating in battle.
It has to be after a certain about of lifetime SP, NOT WP -- for this reason, and because it relates directly to SP anyway, therefore makes more sense.
But now, as I'm sure you've all noticed, we've screwed the veterans (myself included). Passive SP benefits everyone, whether you're PTFO'ing or being a useless AFK'er. If this Lifetime SP Restriction on Passive SP Gain went into effect, we veterans would need some compensation.
So... what would you want? What would you take in exchange for the loss of passive SP?
- +100,000 to your weekly SP Cap?
- A 5% Veteran bonus to all in-game WP earned?
- A 50% boost to end-game WP earned?
- A flat 4,000 SP bonus on top of whatever WP you gained during the match?
And I'm just throwing out numbers here. I'm not even sure if these percentages to WP gain would get us anywhere close to a comparable amount of SP gained at the end of a match.
What other bonuses could you think of? This is the negotiating table. Say what you would accept in exchange for the loss of passive SP, regardless of how ridiculous or outrageous.
And I know this doesn't completely solve AFK SP farming, because the new players can still do it. Honestly, I don't really care what they do. If it gives them the jollies for a bit using that exploit before they move on, who cares. As long as they keep playing, that's all that matters. And is someone seriously going to post, "THERE ARE TOO MANY ROOKIES FARMING SP!!!" *Ahem* Too many rookies ANYTHING is never a problem. New players are the lifeblood of Dust 514 and I want to keep retention rate high.
But I'll remind you ONE LAST TIME what the real question is, before I get a flood of posts misunderstanding what I'm saying here:
This is not a question about whether Passive SP should be restricted beyond a certain Lifetime SP limit. You probably do hate the idea, and that's okay. The question is, what would you accept in exchange for that loss of Passive SP? |
Emerald Bellerophon
Nenikekamen
17
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Posted - 2013.05.28 05:23:00 -
[2] - Quote
I like it. |
Jenova's Witness
The Unholy Legion of Darkstar
DARKSTAR ARMY
48
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 05:37:00 -
[3] - Quote
Fix matchmaking, weapon balance, vehicle/AV balance, PC, FW, and this game will be so fun, people won't want to AFK. |
Emerald Bellerophon
Nenikekamen
17
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 07:06:00 -
[4] - Quote
Jenova's Witness wrote:Fix matchmaking, weapon balance, vehicle/AV balance, PC, FW, and this game will be so fun, people won't want to AFK.
Yeah. Why solve a problem now when obfuscation is so much easier? |
Vicious Minotaur
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
16
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Posted - 2013.05.28 07:34:00 -
[5] - Quote
When you refer to the passive SP, you mean the SP you get that is tied to the amount of time spent in a match, right?
New players would be hurt, and more ways of earning WP would be needed to lessen the impact. CCP has already shared some information on new ways of earning WP (scan assist, WP for destruction of enemy equipment and such), so CCP already has that base covered.
In addition, our SP earnings could be increased similar to how the 3x (or was it 2?) SP week pre-Uprising worked. The number multiplied would have to be tweaked to make up for the loss of Passive SP, of course.
Of course, you could make the above idea more complex, and more forgiving to new players, by tying the multiplicative to WP earned. That way, somebody who only earned, say, 100 WP over an entire Skirmish would get a higher multiplier than sombody earning 1360 WP over the entire match. Of course, the multiplier would be balanced such that even a lower WP earning player won't get nearly as much SP as a higher WP earner. Not even sure if this is a good idea or not, as I just came up with it and thought I'd share. Afterall, a bad idea is still better than no idea... |
Jenova's Witness
The Unholy Legion of Darkstar
DARKSTAR ARMY
60
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 08:07:00 -
[6] - Quote
Emerald Bellerophon wrote:Jenova's Witness wrote:Fix matchmaking, weapon balance, vehicle/AV balance, PC, FW, and this game will be so fun, people won't want to AFK. Yeah. Why solve a problem now when obfuscation is so much easier?
People didn't start AFKing until they got burned out from Chromosome and found out that Uprising was behind schedule. With PC as a complete mess, and FW being nothing more than another pub that helps random EVE pilots we don't know, we're right back at square one, but with even more broken game mechanics. Punishing people for exploiting their game because of their flaccid amount of content seems kind of counterproductive since the game won't change outside of a cattle prod poking someone in the ass to play with ~6 maps and 3 more variations on the same game mode with broken weapons. In a way, they're not AFKing, they're protesting even if their methods don't matter because all CCP cares about is projected server turnout. |
Matakage
WildCard Ninja Clan
240
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 07:34:00 -
[7] - Quote
Vicious Minotaur wrote:When you refer to the passive SP, you mean the SP you get that is tied to the amount of time spent in a match, right?
New players would be hurt, and more ways of earning WP would be needed to lessen the impact. CCP has already shared some information on new ways of earning WP (scan assist, WP for destruction of enemy equipment and such), so CCP already has that base covered.
I don't know if you caught it, but the whole idea was that new players WOULD get passive SP until they reached a certain Lifetime SP level. Since we all agree that removing passive SP hurts new players, we essentially give it to them until they're not new anymore. Now to make up for the loss of passive SP for veteran players, we would need something in return, like the things I mentioned (and you mentioned as well.) |
Matakage
WildCard Ninja Clan
240
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 07:37:00 -
[8] - Quote
Jenova's Witness wrote:Emerald Bellerophon wrote:Jenova's Witness wrote:Fix matchmaking, weapon balance, vehicle/AV balance, PC, FW, and this game will be so fun, people won't want to AFK. Yeah. Why solve a problem now when obfuscation is so much easier? People didn't start AFKing until they got burned out from Chromosome and found out that Uprising was behind schedule. With PC as a complete mess, and FW being nothing more than another pub that helps random EVE pilots we don't know, we're right back at square one, but with even more broken game mechanics. Punishing people for exploiting their game because of their flaccid amount of content seems kind of counterproductive since the game won't change outside of a cattle prod poking someone in the ass to play with ~6 maps and 3 more variations on the same game mode with broken weapons. In a way, they're not AFKing, they're protesting even if their methods don't matter because all CCP cares about is projected server turnout.
As much as I like sticking it to the man in the short term, this problem needs a long-term solution.
I'll repeat that solution again:
New players will get passive SP until they reach a certain level of Lifetime SP. After that, they won't get Passive SP, but they'll get something else instead. A higher weekly cap of +100,000 SP? 3x WP for each match? I don't know, but it's up to us to decide what we would want in exchange for no passive SP. |
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