DUST Search - Profile dampening in Uprising

Vyzion Eyri wrote:

Delirium Inferno wrote:

Makyre Vahliha wrote:

When you're not being sighted by someone with their guns, your PD is working when you're staying still and sitting. Running causes your profile to change, making the red arrow pop up on you and others will see you. Snipers like me are supposed to move slow, sneak and stalk in covers and behind mountains, hills, buildings, etc and stay there until I make the shots and relocate. You have to think how the enemies would think when they are looking for you when you want to stay undetected. It's not about KDR, but about staying alive and helping your squad succeed by providing sniper fire cover. Gallente Scout dropsuits provide the best scan profiles, especially with SP invested in skill bonuses that boost scans and also reduces (dampens) your profile.

Again, some false information. CCP has confirmed that your profile signature is static. So whether you are not moving, crouched, in a full out sprint, or even shooting your gun, whether or not you show up to the enemy does not change.

Source? I swear there have been instances where, crouching and sniping, I've noticed an enemy on the minimap because he's sprinting behind me, then disappearing when he, I assume, runs out of stamina and slows to a walk.

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K9 Wez The Unholy Legion of Darkstar DARKSTAR ARMY 49	Posted - 2013.05.26 22:57:00 - [1] - Quote Could someone that knows please explain to me how exactly profile dampners work? I know the basic knowledge with it, supposedly reducing your visibilty on the minimap, but how does it do that exactly? Will someone stacking PDs show up on map when being aimed at? How does PDs play a part in sniping and counter sniping? Are PDs even useful when sniping since the scan radius is ao low? Please only answer if you actually know how it works or if you are employed at CCP. Thank you I wish CCP made some tutorial vids on youtube about all the skills in-game and how they work live in-game.
Delirium Inferno Edoras Corporation 438	Posted - 2013.05.26 23:10:00 - [2] - Quote There's three main attributes to this Profile Signature Scan Precision Scan Radius Profile signature and Scan Precision are both read in dB. the lower your dB reading the better. In short, if someone passed through your scan radius and your scan precision is lower than his/her profile signature then he/she is detected. Active Scanners have their own Scan Precision and Scan Radius. If somebody aims at you to spot you, you are spotted no matter what your profile signature is. Profile Dampeners lower your profile signature dB reading. What is unclear is how wide our passive scanning radius is. Is it a full 360 degrees around our body? Or just a few degree in front of us? I do not know.
Full Metal Kitten Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 572	Posted - 2013.05.26 23:20:00 - [3] - Quote PDs have no effect on active scanners. Also, if someone has line of sight on you then you show up on radar regardless of PDs. They only make you harder to passive scan when you are unseen. My counter sniping fit is a logi suit (I use the Dren Logistics since my Sver is useless unless I train Minnie med frame). I fit an active scanner for obvious reasons. Drop uplinks so I can get back into action closer if I get dropped before I find my targets. Nanohive primarily for grenade replenishment and GLU TAC AR so I can take dudes at range if required or in redline.
Delirium Inferno Edoras Corporation 438	Posted - 2013.05.26 23:23:00 - [4] - Quote Full Metal Kitten wrote: PDs have no effect on active scanners. Not quite true. Active Scanners have a scanning precision, you can find it in their details. It is quite possible to dampen your profile enough as to not be detected by active scanners.
Makyre Vahliha The White Hawk Knights 118	Posted - 2013.05.26 23:39:00 - [5] - Quote When you're not being sighted by someone with their guns, your PD is working when you're staying still and sitting. Running causes your profile to change, making the red arrow pop up on you and others will see you. Snipers like me are supposed to move slow, sneak and stalk in covers and behind mountains, hills, buildings, etc and stay there until I make the shots and relocate. You have to think how the enemies would think when they are looking for you when you want to stay undetected. It's not about KDR, but about staying alive and helping your squad succeed by providing sniper fire cover. Gallente Scout dropsuits provide the best scan profiles, especially with SP invested in skill bonuses that boost scans and also reduces (dampens) your profile.
Delirium Inferno Edoras Corporation 438	Posted - 2013.05.26 23:45:00 - [6] - Quote Makyre Vahliha wrote: When you're not being sighted by someone with their guns, your PD is working when you're staying still and sitting. Running causes your profile to change, making the red arrow pop up on you and others will see you. Snipers like me are supposed to move slow, sneak and stalk in covers and behind mountains, hills, buildings, etc and stay there until I make the shots and relocate. You have to think how the enemies would think when they are looking for you when you want to stay undetected. It's not about KDR, but about staying alive and helping your squad succeed by providing sniper fire cover. Gallente Scout dropsuits provide the best scan profiles, especially with SP invested in skill bonuses that boost scans and also reduces (dampens) your profile. Again, some false information. CCP has confirmed that your profile signature is static. So whether you are not moving, crouched, in a full out sprint, or even shooting your gun, whether or not you show up to the enemy does not change.
K9 Wez The Unholy Legion of Darkstar DARKSTAR ARMY 49	Posted - 2013.05.27 06:44:00 - [7] - Quote Thanks for the replies guys. Do you even get detected if you are semi targeted? (Usually how i find my targets when counter sniping) Would be great if a dev could confirm everyones information as well.
Vyzion Eyri The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION 702	Posted - 2013.05.27 07:21:00 - [8] - Quote Delirium Inferno wrote: Makyre Vahliha wrote: When you're not being sighted by someone with their guns, your PD is working when you're staying still and sitting. Running causes your profile to change, making the red arrow pop up on you and others will see you. Snipers like me are supposed to move slow, sneak and stalk in covers and behind mountains, hills, buildings, etc and stay there until I make the shots and relocate. You have to think how the enemies would think when they are looking for you when you want to stay undetected. It's not about KDR, but about staying alive and helping your squad succeed by providing sniper fire cover. Gallente Scout dropsuits provide the best scan profiles, especially with SP invested in skill bonuses that boost scans and also reduces (dampens) your profile. Again, some false information. CCP has confirmed that your profile signature is static. So whether you are not moving, crouched, in a full out sprint, or even shooting your gun, whether or not you show up to the enemy does not change. Source? I swear there have been instances where, crouching and sniping, I've noticed an enemy on the minimap because he's sprinting behind me, then disappearing when he, I assume, runs out of stamina and slows to a walk.
crazy space 1 Unkn0wn Killers 1258	Posted - 2013.05.27 07:27:00 - [9] - Quote all I know is I can kill like 30 people in ambush with remote mines I just sit right behing three people and they don't see me while I drop a mine. The gallennte proto at least can really hide on the minimap
crazy space 1 Unkn0wn Killers 1258	Posted - 2013.05.27 07:28:00 - [10] - Quote Delirium Inferno wrote: Full Metal Kitten wrote: PDs have no effect on active scanners. Not quite true. Active Scanners have a scanning precision, you can find it in their details. It is quite possible to dampen your profile enough as to not be detected by active scanners. That's the plan!

Radioship Vacuum Cleaner. LLC RUST415 71	Posted - 2013.05.27 07:33:00 - [11] - Quote Profile Signature should be lower on prototype suits. But it's not :(
Repe Susi Rautaleijona Gentlemen's Agreement 441	Posted - 2013.05.27 07:40:00 - [12] - Quote Quote: Again, some false information. CCP has confirmed that your profile signature is static. So whether you are not moving, crouched, in a full out sprint, or even shooting your gun, whether or not you show up to the enemy does not change. Source? I swear there have been instances where, crouching and sniping, I've noticed an enemy on the minimap because he's sprinting behind me, then disappearing when he, I assume, runs out of stamina and slows to a walk. I cannot find the quote, but it is true. The Devs confirmed it somewhere. And yes, even shooting does not change you signature.
Otoky DIOS EX. Gentlemen's Agreement 102	Posted - 2013.05.27 07:55:00 - [13] - Quote K9 Wez wrote: Would be great if a dev could confirm everyones information as well. +1
Otoky DIOS EX. Gentlemen's Agreement 102	Posted - 2013.05.27 07:57:00 - [14] - Quote Vyzion Eyri wrote: Delirium Inferno wrote: Makyre Vahliha wrote: When you're not being sighted by someone with their guns, your PD is working when you're staying still and sitting. Running causes your profile to change, making the red arrow pop up on you and others will see you. Snipers like me are supposed to move slow, sneak and stalk in covers and behind mountains, hills, buildings, etc and stay there until I make the shots and relocate. You have to think how the enemies would think when they are looking for you when you want to stay undetected. It's not about KDR, but about staying alive and helping your squad succeed by providing sniper fire cover. Gallente Scout dropsuits provide the best scan profiles, especially with SP invested in skill bonuses that boost scans and also reduces (dampens) your profile. Again, some false information. CCP has confirmed that your profile signature is static. So whether you are not moving, crouched, in a full out sprint, or even shooting your gun, whether or not you show up to the enemy does not change. Source? I swear there have been instances where, crouching and sniping, I've noticed an enemy on the minimap because he's sprinting behind me, then disappearing when he, I assume, runs out of stamina and slows to a walk. This changed with Uprising. Sorry, but I type from phone so it would be difficult to link source. But you will find in patchnote or in devs threat.
Otoky DIOS EX. Gentlemen's Agreement 102	Posted - 2013.05.27 08:02:00 - [15] - Quote Full Metal Kitten wrote: PDs have no effect on active scanners. Also, if someone has line of sight on you then you show up on radar regardless of PDs. They only make you harder to passive scan when you are unseen. Yep. Happend with me a loot when my suit alerted that someone wanted to scan my profile with active scanner.
crazy space 1 Unkn0wn Killers 1258	Posted - 2013.05.27 08:03:00 - [16] - Quote Radioship wrote: Profile Signature should be lower on prototype suits. But it's not :( Also, Gallente scout can have up to 12.8dB Profile Signature (if my math is correct) Top Duvolle scanner iirc is 15dB (18?) So its still possible to be invisible, even with Active scaners, Gallente only. um.... it's 5% lower per level of skill so that's something
Tore Matta Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 2	Posted - 2013.05.27 08:26:00 - [17] - Quote Repe Susi wrote: Quote: Again, some false information. CCP has confirmed that your profile signature is static. So whether you are not moving, crouched, in a full out sprint, or even shooting your gun, whether or not you show up to the enemy does not change. Source? I swear there have been instances where, crouching and sniping, I've noticed an enemy on the minimap because he's sprinting behind me, then disappearing when he, I assume, runs out of stamina and slows to a walk. I cannot find the quote, but it is true. The Devs confirmed it somewhere. And yes, even shooting does not change you signature. Really? I don't know about walking/ running and whatnot, you may be right on that, but I'm pretty sure firing a weapon does reveal your location by radar and on-screen for a few seconds before going back. Are you sure that quote you saw isn't really old and has been changed since?
Radioship Vacuum Cleaner. LLC RUST415 71	Posted - 2013.05.27 08:33:00 - [18] - Quote crazy space 1 wrote: Radioship wrote: Profile Signature should be lower on prototype suits. But it's not :( Also, Gallente scout can have up to 12.8dB Profile Signature (if my math is correct) Top Duvolle scanner iirc is 15dB (18?) So its still possible to be invisible, even with Active scaners, Gallente only. um.... it's 5% lower per level of skill so that's something My calculations are: 45dB base Scan Profile (futher SP) - You get 25% SP reduction per low-slot module, without stacking penalty - You get 2% for each level of Scan Profile Dampening skill (might be wrong with skill spelling) - You get 5% for each level of Scout dropsuit skill Gallente (4 low slots in proto suit) 45 x (1-0.25)^4 x (1-0.1) x (1-0.25) = 45 x 0.3164 x 0.9 x 0.75 = 9.61 Minmatar (2 low slots in proto) 45 x (1-0.25)^2 x (1-0.1) x (1-0.25) = 45 x 0.5625 x 0.9 x 0.75 = 17.08 Anyone can tell what stats (dB readings) on Duvolle scanner, is it 15 or 18 dB ? If its 18, than theres no reason to go for Gallente if you are sniper and theres no reason to stack more than 2 SP mods. If its 15, than eeeehh Minmatars are in trouble :)
rose bustskulls Worst Corp. INC. 3	Posted - 2013.05.27 08:36:00 - [19] - Quote Can you list what it would be with 1 / 2/ 3 /modules fitted? And then someone should find a list of all the levels of active scanners Lets see how many we need to fit to know we can avoid a module.
Radioship Vacuum Cleaner. LLC RUST415 71	Posted - 2013.05.27 08:43:00 - [20] - Quote rose bustskulls wrote: Can you list what it would be with 1 / 2/ 3 /modules fitted? And then someone should find a list of all the levels of active scanners Lets see how many we need to fit to know we can avoid a module. If considering all skills to level 5 and: If Duvolle scanner is 15dB: 3 modules If Duvolle scanner is 18dB: 2 modules I am at work, can't check stats on items :( Also i wonder if range has any influence on scan "precision" ? Theres also some bugs with Active scanners: - they dont scan through several wall types - rotation of beam does nothing (working as intended tbh) - people that shows on nodes [Skirmish nodes] are not visible due to overlay - some more :) // Also, all measurements (45dB) is for Scouts other dropsuit users should not care about profile tbh :)

Arramakaian Eka Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 607	Posted - 2013.05.27 08:49:00 - [21] - Quote Due to much lower scanning ranges in Uprising, profile dampening skills and mods are all but useless. The only exception is Scouts who need to stay off Active Scanner sweeps (eg. snipers).
rose bustskulls Worst Corp. INC. 3	Posted - 2013.05.27 09:12:00 - [22] - Quote Arramakaian Eka wrote: Due to much lower scanning ranges in Uprising, profile dampening skills and mods are all but useless. The only exception is Scouts who need to stay off Active Scanner sweeps (eg. snipers). No the damping skills help you get behind people without them seeing you. Trust me I can hide 2 feet away from an objective and they won't see me.
THE GREY CARDINAL PSU GHOST SYNDICATE DARKSTAR ARMY 103	Posted - 2013.05.27 10:49:00 - [23] - Quote rose bustskulls wrote: Arramakaian Eka wrote: Due to much lower scanning ranges in Uprising, profile dampening skills and mods are all but useless. The only exception is Scouts who need to stay off Active Scanner sweeps (eg. snipers). No the damping skills help you get behind people without them seeing you. Trust me I can hide 2 feet away from an objective and they won't see me. This. I have had people run right in front of me, completely blind to my existence. I love PD even as a logi. :D
Arramakaian Eka Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 613	Posted - 2013.05.27 11:45:00 - [24] - Quote THE GREY CARDINAL wrote: rose bustskulls wrote: Arramakaian Eka wrote: Due to much lower scanning ranges in Uprising, profile dampening skills and mods are all but useless. The only exception is Scouts who need to stay off Active Scanner sweeps (eg. snipers). No the damping skills help you get behind people without them seeing you. Trust me I can hide 2 feet away from an objective and they won't see me. This. I have had people run right in front of me, completely blind to my existence. I love PD even as a logi. :D That has everything to do with people having poor situational awareness and not paying attention to minimap, and very little to do with your PD skills. Non-scouts have less than 10m scan ranges even with skills and range extenders, which is less than half the distance to the first circle on your minimap. This means that if you have zero Scan Profile (impossible, but you'd never get picked up on scanners) you will only show up on their minimap when you're essentially breathing down their neck. If you don't loiter behind them, and run at them with novas or start shooting at them at point blank, they won't have time to react to minimap before it's too late even if they pay attention to it. I can see that hiding right next to an objective relying on PDs to keep you hidden might be useful tactic. Whether it is worth spending precious low slots for just that situational tactic is doubtful, though.
K9 Wez The Unholy Legion of Darkstar DARKSTAR ARMY 50	Posted - 2013.05.27 14:15:00 - [25] - Quote Gentle bump for a dev's attention
Night Ward Ametat Security Amarr Empire 36	Posted - 2013.05.27 16:39:00 - [26] - Quote Devs hiding from questions huh? Tell me something new.
K9 Wez The Unholy Legion of Darkstar DARKSTAR ARMY 50	Posted - 2013.05.28 14:02:00 - [27] - Quote Oh come on devs, why aren't y'all responding? :(
EnIgMa99 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 365	Posted - 2013.05.28 14:27:00 - [28] - Quote scanners are garbage with only 100m range on every scanner they don't pop up if they are outside of my radar range. so in other words you cant look at a sniper and use a scanner on him or her at range


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