DUST Search - [Feedback] Plasma Cannon AV Capabilities

Arramakaian Eka wrote:

I've been using the basic and ADV variants for a few days, and agree that PLC needs tweaking. Faster projectile speed and more AV damage (direct and/or splash) would help make it a more viable weapon.

The arc is fine, it's good to have some weapons which require actual player skill to use. But that should be balanced by making the weapon an actually formidable adversary to vehicles and infantry.

EXASTRA INVICTAS wrote:

I believe there is a thread somewhere here discussing that the Advanced and Prototype variants of the Plasma cannon are broken, not sure where it's at though. If anything, I want the Plasma cannon to have a higher splash damage and radius as opposed to better AV capabilities. I feel that it should perform better against infantry than the Forge Gun or Swarm launcher at the cost of slightly reduced AV effectiveness. This makes it more useful for the AV specialist who doesn't want to completely sacrifice his defense against enemy infantry while hunting vehicles. But these are just my opinions.

The stated purpose of PLC is to be an anti-tank weapon, and we need more variety with AV options. As OP said, we already have Mass Driver as an anti-infantry weapon with splash damage - we don't need another one. If you use Swarms you can use a sidearm as anti-infantry backup.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
EXASTRA INVICTAS Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 35	Posted - 2013.05.26 11:25:00 - [1] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: 4.) Remove/Revise Plasma Cannon Ammo Capacity skill. 5% of 9 is .09, meaning that even at level 5 this skill will only give you 0.45 more rounds. 5.) Reduce the CPU! Why does this weapon require more CPU than a Swarm Launcher if it's less effective almost every way? 6.) Being as a hotfix is being implemented to give this weapon PG requirements, this only compounds the issues revolving around it's fitting requirements. Just thought I'd correct your math there, 9 x 1.25 (level 5) = 11.25. So at Ammo Capacity Level 5, you have an extra two rounds. It's no free lunch, but still. 9 x .05 (5%) = .45 * 5 (level 5) = 2.25 (skill gain) + 9 (base ammo) = 11.25 (max ammo) The CPU is high because it requires 0 powergrid to operate. That, combined with its CPU reduction skill lowers its CPU quickly. And when you use it on a Gallente Assault Suit (since it's Gallente Plasma Tech) the CPU usage can be reduced even further. Until it requires Powergrid, I don't see a HUGE issue with the CPU requirements. Regardless, I can somewhat agree that the Plasma Cannon feels a little underwhelming in comparison to the other AV weapons. In my opinion, the primary skill should increase projectile velocity rather than decrease charge time. I have never once thought "Wow I sure wish my Plasma Cannon charged faster" but I have definitely thought "Wow, I wish that thing moved faster" I believe there is a thread somewhere here discussing that the Advanced and Prototype variants of the Plasma cannon are broken, not sure where it's at though. If anything, I want the Plasma cannon to have a higher splash damage and radius as opposed to better AV capabilities. I feel that it should perform better against infantry than the Forge Gun or Swarm launcher at the cost of slightly reduced AV effectiveness. This makes it more useful for the AV specialist who doesn't want to completely sacrifice his defense against enemy infantry while hunting vehicles. But these are just my opinions.
EXASTRA INVICTAS Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 35	Posted - 2013.05.26 12:19:00 - [2] - Quote Arramakaian Eka wrote: I've been using the basic and ADV variants for a few days, and agree that PLC needs tweaking. Faster projectile speed and more AV damage (direct and/or splash) would help make it a more viable weapon. The arc is fine, it's good to have some weapons which require actual player skill to use. But that should be balanced by making the weapon an actually formidable adversary to vehicles and infantry. EXASTRA INVICTAS wrote: I believe there is a thread somewhere here discussing that the Advanced and Prototype variants of the Plasma cannon are broken, not sure where it's at though. If anything, I want the Plasma cannon to have a higher splash damage and radius as opposed to better AV capabilities. I feel that it should perform better against infantry than the Forge Gun or Swarm launcher at the cost of slightly reduced AV effectiveness. This makes it more useful for the AV specialist who doesn't want to completely sacrifice his defense against enemy infantry while hunting vehicles. But these are just my opinions. The stated purpose of PLC is to be an anti-tank weapon, and we need more variety with AV options. As OP said, we already have Mass Driver as an anti-infantry weapon with splash damage - we don't need another one. If you use Swarms you can use a sidearm as anti-infantry backup. The difference is the Plasma Cannon would still be a rather effective Anti-Vehicle Weapon (unlike the Mass Driver), and it would be a rather effective Anti-Personnel weapon (unlike the Swarm Launcher). It gives it a defining spot that it would happily slide into as another AV weapon, especially since the Plasma Cannon will be much more effective at taking out Caldari and Matari (assuming shield tanks) LAVs and HAVs since it's a Hybrid weapon, not explosive. I'm not saying take it from being AV and turn it into a ridiculously large Mass Driver. I just think increasing its damage purely for AV makes the weapon "just another AV weapon" to choose from, rather than offering a real, solid benefit to using it over the rest. Making it so you're more likely to smash the face of someone trying to shoot you than you would be with the Swarm Launcher gives one more reason to spec into the Plasma Cannon, if one so chooses. 1) Increased projectile speed per level (changed from charge up speed) 2) Slightly increased Damage 3) Slightly increased splash radius Now it's a decent anti-vehicle weapon that you can also defend yourself with, if necessary.
EXASTRA INVICTAS Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 35	Posted - 2013.05.26 13:59:00 - [3] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: I'm not sure that when we were told that it was going to be a dumb-fire AV weapon we all thought: "Hell yeah, big mass driver that only fires one round with a charge-up." Honestly as far as AV is concerned there's not much to choose from. Swarm Launcher or Forge Gun. We -need- more AV options because honestly, while the Swarm Launcher is more reliable I don't want to have to wait a century for the swarm launchers to -not- hit their target. Forge Guns are also a pretty finicky thing as I'm sacrificing a lot of mobility in order to use them, which is something that's a pretty big necessity with the rate of which the LAV buffs keep pouring out of CCP's development team. I was expecting something more like a rocket launcher of plasma balls. And it's kinda sorta almost there, too be honest. It's not really a rocket launcher, and it's not really an arcing shot. It's somewhere in between. Proto Mass Driver Radius: 4.125m (base is 3.3) Proto Plasma Cannon Radius: 3.5m (base is 3.5) So the Plasma Cannon has a higher base radius but it ultimately has a smaller splash when comparing both at maximum power. The direct and splash damage is also higher on the Plasma Cannon. The Plasma Cannon has an effective 4.1 reload time before skills are factored in, and the Mass Driver 4 seconds, so they're relatively equal there too. So up to this point I can kinda understand why you're comparing the two. However, their firing patterns are completely different. The Plasma Cannon also doesn't get the ability to shoot a shot per second. It has a (at worst) 4.1 second delay between every single shot. The Mass Driver will still feel like a completely different weapon. And I'm not saying "Hurr durr Plasma cannon should not be AV". I'm just saying that it's already designated as an AV weapon. From my experience using it, the biggest issue with it is the damage seems slightly lower than it should be for being a single shot weapon, and that the projectile moves too slowly to be effective at anything other than Tankbusting (reliably anyway). But it differentiates itself from the other AV weapons by being really effective vs. Infantry as well. The Swarm Launcher is absolutely useless at it, AV grenades are useless for it, the Forge Gun is capable of it but can be somewhat tricky to use... one of the biggest defining points of the Plasma Cannon, at least for non-heavy AV, is in its ability to be used effectively for anti-personnel. I mean, that's just how I see it. Give it a slight damage buff, make the projectile faster, eh it doesn't need improved splash radius. They could even drop it to 3 I think. Maybe remove the arc pattern of the projectile. I think it'd be a nice weapon like that. Maybe it's just me, but yeah.
EXASTRA INVICTAS Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 35	Posted - 2013.05.26 14:23:00 - [4] - Quote CCP prefers we keep discussions contained within like threads. Since we're both talking about changes to the Plasma Cannon, I see no need to start a new thread. Not when it can be discussed just as easily here.
EXASTRA INVICTAS Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 35	Posted - 2013.05.26 14:35:00 - [5] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: EXASTRA INVICTAS wrote: CCP prefers we keep discussions contained within like threads. Since we're both talking about changes to the Plasma Cannon, I see no need to start a new thread. Not when it can be discussed just as easily here. No, we're not both talking about changes to the Plasma Cannon. This thread is in regards to making it a fundamental AV weapon, which is what it's supposed to be. You're trying to stray away from the topic in and of itself. Aeon Amadi wrote: Possible Suggestions: 1.) Remove the charge up timer completely and change Plasma Cannon Operation to a different bonus. Having a 0.6 charge-up timer and a skill associated to reducing it is just silly. 2.) Remove or lessen the arch of the projectile. There is no reason for this being in play as the Swarm Launcher locks on and the Forge Gun fires straight, both performing better in terms of damage, ammo use and reliability. 3.) Increase the damage so that it is -WORTH- having a single shot that has to be immediately reloaded afterward. 4.) Remove/Revise Plasma Cannon Ammo Capacity skill. 5% of 9 is .09, meaning that even at level 5 this skill will only give you 0.45 more rounds. Edit: Apparently this has been corrected to 11-12 rounds, but considering it's a 6x (I think?) skill, it's pointless. 5.) Reduce the CPU! Why does this weapon require more CPU than a Swarm Launcher if it's less effective almost every way? 6.) Being as a hotfix is being implemented to give this weapon PG requirements, this only compounds the issues revolving around it's fitting requirements. 7.) Reduce the splash radius. We already have an effective AoE Anti-Infantry weapon and it's called a Mass Driver. Sounds like we're talking about making changes to the Plasma Cannon to me. And since I am not trying to remove its role as an Anti Vehicular weapon (in fact, from my experience using it, my changes would only further improve its abilities in that role), just rather define it further as a weapon, I still see no need to go off and start another topic. Regardless, I've stated my opinion and experience and am not going to stay here and argue with you about trivialities such as whether or not to start a new topic.