DUST Search - [Suggestion] Separate K/D number for non-weapon kills such as vehicle run-downs

Cross Atu wrote:

Geirskoegul wrote:

Cross Atu wrote:

KDR really is just a bad stat in Dust, it's bad because is too general to be meaningful.

Did that kill actually cost a clone? Did that kill cost a fit, and did that fit cost more or less than what was lost to accomplish it?
Did that kill require dealing 10 pts of dmg to a wounded foe or was it a sidearm kill of a proto heavy?
Was that kills a guy in a proto HAV or an afk red dot?

The list goes on and on. It's not that KDR is conceptually irrelevant, it's that the stat itself in the way it tracks and displays both kills and deaths is too vague to be valid. So sure add a separate category for vehicle kills, and weapon types, and suit types killed, and actual bleedout deaths (you know the ones which cost the team something) et al.
Add lots of sub-categories which provide actual specific information. Because even if you're talking about the skill required to make a kill it's not like that's the same for someone rocking a TAR and contact nades as it is for someone with a basic AR and militia nades (not to mention any of the other various weapons).

0.02 ISK
Cross

This is all fine and great (and I'm all for it; us evetards love our stat and graph ****). It should still ALL feed into the master kill/death total (that said, I also think assists should be rolled into the total like theh are in eve, since it more fairly reflects the fact of ateam effort, and makes actual killstealing less appealing; i also say make the WP the same for kills and assists, since it further encourages teamwork and discourages killstealing since it eliminates the incentive to killsteal.)

CCP has confirmed that they're working on the mechanics for a more granular WP awards system so in the future assists and kill steals won't be rewarded the way they are now.

That being said I concur about feeding it into a master total, tho I would say that listing actual clone losses and deaths should still be distinguished due to their distinctly different impact on the match. Someone who dies 4 times in a fire fight getting repeatedly revived but stays up on the 5th will have cost the team nothing where as a guy who insta-bleeds himself 3 times will still have a better listed death total even despite having cost the team quite a bit more.

While the current "death" values should still be tracked it is clone loss not "death" that should be displayed publicly on the end of match screen (and in battles with FF enabled that tally should include all clones that bleed out due to a "death" caused by your friendly fire).

0.02 ISK
Cross


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Geirskoegul Soul-Strike 203	Posted - 2013.05.31 17:28:00 - [1] - Quote J Falcs wrote: As annoyed as I am with the LAV situation a kill is a kill and a death is a death. I think balancing the situation is a better approach. Now, how to do that... . It's very easy to do that: actually pull out AV and exercise some situational awareness; problem solved.
Geirskoegul Soul-Strike 206	Posted - 2013.05.31 17:50:00 - [2] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: KDR really is just a bad stat in Dust, it's bad because is too general to be meaningful. Did that kill actually cost a clone? Did that kill cost a fit, and did that fit cost more or less than what was lost to accomplish it? Did that kill require dealing 10 pts of dmg to a wounded foe or was it a sidearm kill of a proto heavy? Was that kills a guy in a proto HAV or an afk red dot? The list goes on and on. It's not that KDR is conceptually irrelevant, it's that the stat itself in the way it tracks and displays both kills and deaths is too vague to be valid. So sure add a separate category for vehicle kills, and weapon types, and suit types killed, and actual bleedout deaths (you know the ones which cost the team something) et al. Add lots of sub-categories which provide actual specific information. Because even if you're talking about the skill required to make a kill it's not like that's the same for someone rocking a TAR and contact nades as it is for someone with a basic AR and militia nades (not to mention any of the other various weapons). 0.02 ISK Cross This is all fine and great (and I'm all for it; us evetards love our stat and graph ****). It should still ALL feed into the master kill/death total (that said, I also think assists should be rolled into the total like theh are in eve, since it more fairly reflects the fact of ateam effort, and makes actual killstealing less appealing; i also say make the WP the same for kills and assists, since it further encourages teamwork and discourages killstealing since it eliminates the incentive to killsteal.)
Geirskoegul Soul-Strike 207	Posted - 2013.05.31 18:25:00 - [3] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Geirskoegul wrote: Cross Atu wrote: KDR really is just a bad stat in Dust, it's bad because is too general to be meaningful. Did that kill actually cost a clone? Did that kill cost a fit, and did that fit cost more or less than what was lost to accomplish it? Did that kill require dealing 10 pts of dmg to a wounded foe or was it a sidearm kill of a proto heavy? Was that kills a guy in a proto HAV or an afk red dot? The list goes on and on. It's not that KDR is conceptually irrelevant, it's that the stat itself in the way it tracks and displays both kills and deaths is too vague to be valid. So sure add a separate category for vehicle kills, and weapon types, and suit types killed, and actual bleedout deaths (you know the ones which cost the team something) et al. Add lots of sub-categories which provide actual specific information. Because even if you're talking about the skill required to make a kill it's not like that's the same for someone rocking a TAR and contact nades as it is for someone with a basic AR and militia nades (not to mention any of the other various weapons). 0.02 ISK Cross This is all fine and great (and I'm all for it; us evetards love our stat and graph ***). It should still ALL feed into the master kill/death total (that said, I also think assists should be rolled into the total like theh are in eve, since it more fairly reflects the fact of ateam effort, and makes actual killstealing less appealing; i also say make the WP the same for kills and assists, since it further encourages teamwork and discourages killstealing since it eliminates the incentive to killsteal.) CCP has confirmed that they're working on the mechanics for a more granular WP awards system so in the future assists and kill steals won't be rewarded the way they are now. That being said I concur about feeding it into a master total, tho I would say that listing actual clone losses and deaths should still be distinguished due to their distinctly different impact on the match. Someone who dies 4 times in a fire fight getting repeatedly revived but stays up on the 5th will have cost the team nothing where as a guy who insta-bleeds himself 3 times will still have a better listed death total even despite having cost the team quite a bit more. While the current "death" values should still be tracked it is clone loss* not "death" that should be displayed publicly on the end of match screen (and in battles with FF enabled that tally should include all clones that bleed out due to a "death" caused by your friendly fire). 0.02 ISK Cross No argument or disagreement here, especially as someone who rolls logi almost exclusively in Dust and most of the time when PvPing in EVE.