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One Universe, One War, Two Economies

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Topher Mellen Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2013.05.25 17:00:00 - [1] - Quote I've played EVE online for two months now. I started because I heard of this FPS that would have the same economy as this intense meta game known as EVE. I loved the idea of using the spaceship markets to fuel the cost of my Boba Fett style dropsuits. Sure I'd lose money playing this way, but it would be my reward for coordinating with my EVE mercenaries to protect my barge in low security space. I loved the idea so much I subscribed to EVE and bought a PS3. Now the game has been released and the beta officially over. Strangely when I began to investigate more closely after getting my bearings in both games I found an impenetrable investment wall between my two characters. Having prototype gear every time I spawn should be my reward for playing both games. When is DUST 514 actually actually going to be a part of the EVE universe, and when can I implement my perfectly fair strategy to have fun in this FPS?
Topher Mellen Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 3	Posted - 2013.05.25 18:31:00 - [2] - Quote Robert JD Niewiadomski wrote: I too started playing EVE because of DUST. Created my EVE and DUST chars on the same day. But played EVE first. The danger of merging markets now, would be great ISK divide between DUSTies with EVE side connection and DUSTies without it. I am talking about ISK donations from EVE side. 1.000.000 ISK for one capsuleer is earned in 20 minutes and less. For merc who is not a ceo/director of district owning corp it takes 4 hours or 3. And not everybody wants to have an EVE account. Yet Add to this market prices manipulation by capsuleers. I bet they can't wait for it Imagine 10x prices hikes in a matter of minutes... We are not ready for this yet imho. DUST battles payouts should be increased tenfold or more for the merge to be safe... EDIT: Yeah right! We need to rise the price of our services. Let's start the general strike Pay or die! Pay or die! Pay or die! Comon guys, repeat. Pay or die! Pay or die! Pay or die! Lol The danger of merging markets now, would be great ISK divide between DUSTies with EVE side connection and DUSTies without it. I am talking about ISK donations from EVE side. It's all about Risk v Reward. Every time I enter low security space with my barge I put 200,000,000 ISK on the line just in the hull. I have to go through my mercenary list and pay them to escort me in low security space. I have to strike the balance of paying these people as little as possible and to have them be personally skilled enough to fight off any pirates who happen to fly my way to maximize my profits. This all takes much more skill, both in the meta game and in EVE itself, and is much more dangerous than anything I can do in DUST at the moment. My reward in DUST should be the best gear money can buy. Keep in mind, I am only one out of sixteen players in the match. I do not find this effect to break the game, that game being DUST. Also, queuing up for a match in DUST is working for the empires. In EVE working for the empires is known as mission running and that pays just about as well. I also believe that making your way into a cross-game corporation is part of the meta game we all wanted to see introduced to an FPS. Add to this market prices manipulation by capsuleers. I bet they can't wait for it Imagine 10x prices hikes in a matter of minutes... The prices of items in EVE are pretty closely tied down to their manufacturing requirements. I think CCP could deal with this issue simply by making DUST items cheaper to produce. Sure the market would fluctuate starting out, and indeed, likely not in DUST player's favor, but my Hulk used to cost the price of a PLEX when they were first released. Making the blueprint cheap to run and the items cheap to produce would solve this issue. I would be very surprised if CCP hasn't already planned on doing exactly this.
Topher Mellen Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 3	Posted - 2013.05.25 18:35:00 - [3] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Personally, I think Proto gear is way too cheap as it is right now. IMHO, it should cost roughly 15-20m for a full proto fit (dropsuit, mods and weapons). It would then be given the gravity that I believe CCP was hoping it would have rather than people just running around pubs tossing Proto around like it was water. I believe that is far too expensive for how quickly you can be killed in DUST. DUST gear should be cheap, just like it is. This allows for players to use prototype gear in public matches without being deathly afraid of losing it. At that price no one would ever use the gear and it would just sit on the market forever.
Topher Mellen Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 3	Posted - 2013.05.25 18:41:00 - [4] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: @Topher No offense, but if you're gate-jumping a mining ship into low, you're doing it wrong. Haul that **** into a quiet little corner of low, drop it in the station there and then (here's the kicker) jump clone out. This way you can keep the system quiet as far as gate jumps are concerned on dotlan. When you want to go mining there, STAY AT YOUR KEYBOARD and KEEP EVE UP FRONT ON YOUR MONITOR. Jumpclone into the system and tank the rats, don't kill them. Keep these tips in mind and you should be able to mine till your heart's content in relative safety. A very good point indeed. Low-sec mining can be very cheap, but not without extreme risk. One little heads up on the pirate channel can end all of that. Whether or not I jump clone around, my ship is still sitting in low security space and able to be destroyed by my DUST rivals. This is exactly how the meta game should function.
Topher Mellen Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 5	Posted - 2013.05.25 19:14:00 - [5] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Topher Mellen wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Personally, I think Proto gear is way too cheap as it is right now. IMHO, it should cost roughly 15-20m for a full proto fit (dropsuit, mods and weapons). It would then be given the gravity that I believe CCP was hoping it would have rather than people just running around pubs tossing Proto around like it was water. I believe that is far too expensive for how quickly you can be killed in DUST. DUST gear should be cheap, just like it is. This allows for players to use prototype gear in public matches without being deathly afraid of losing it. At that price no one would ever use the gear and it would just sit on the market forever. I disagree, it would still be found in PC and potentially in FW too (if we're getting LP and better rewards that is). It would only disappear from pubs which I don't think is a bad thing. There is currently very little risk v reward in Dust and if we had a single economy shared between the two, the risk would become even less. I can't argue that risk would go down, but I think that the risk should go down to meet the current reward for playing any part of DUST.
Topher Mellen Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 6	Posted - 2013.05.25 19:39:00 - [6] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Topher Mellen wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Topher Mellen wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Personally, I think Proto gear is way too cheap as it is right now. IMHO, it should cost roughly 15-20m for a full proto fit (dropsuit, mods and weapons). It would then be given the gravity that I believe CCP was hoping it would have rather than people just running around pubs tossing Proto around like it was water. I believe that is far too expensive for how quickly you can be killed in DUST. DUST gear should be cheap, just like it is. This allows for players to use prototype gear in public matches without being deathly afraid of losing it. At that price no one would ever use the gear and it would just sit on the market forever. I disagree, it would still be found in PC and potentially in FW too (if we're getting LP and better rewards that is). It would only disappear from pubs which I don't think is a bad thing. There is currently very little risk v reward in Dust and if we had a single economy shared between the two, the risk would become even less. I can't argue that risk would go down, but I think that the risk should go down to meet the current reward for playing any part of DUST. Again, I have to disagree, if the risk is lessened, then the only barrier to Proto will become SP which will just cause newbs to get faceraped even worse than they do currently. This wouldn't be a good thing for Dust on the whole. Protogear needs more gravity, not more commonality. I see your point. Proto gear should be the tech II/III of the DUST world, but until they add more rewarding content for DUST players to participate in I just can't imagine a DUST player shelling out 15 - 20 million ISK for a dropsuit fitting. I usually spawn in DUST with a meta 1 dropsuit and a meta 5 weapon to save some cash. My scrambler pistol still rips through the most tanky prototypes out there. If they were to make a dropsuit fit cost 15 - 20 mil, that dropsuit had better be able to wreck anyone in militia with a couple shots. Think about someone attacking an Ishtar with a Merlin. The Ishtar should win. I just don't think prototype gear preforms that well to cost that much.
Topher Mellen Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 6	Posted - 2013.05.25 19:59:00 - [7] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: Dust 514 doesn't have an economy. It has an omnipotent vendor that sells whatever you need at unchanging prices, but never has to buy anything from anyone. Where does this omnipotent vendor find materials? How does it create the products? No one ones, not even the almighty space pigeons up there. I would argue there's a tiny bit of one with the match rewards and planetary conquest, but I'd much rather have EVE players play a significant role in the manufacturing and distribution of DUST gear. Essentially you're right, and it needs to be fixed.
Topher Mellen Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 6	Posted - 2013.05.25 20:50:00 - [8] - Quote It should have the potential to be much better than it currently is, though it should also be significantly more expensive. ^ This. It isn't that good right now though, therefore the price should stay the same. If CCP had added subsystem slots I would've agreed with your initial post. I think that's a whole new class of gear that they should add in an update though, not make a massive change to the gear that already exists. Right now the gear functions much like it did when EVE fist shipped. Everything is tech I and I believe they should add a tech II and apply the costs you had mentioned earlier to that gear.
Topher Mellen Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 6	Posted - 2013.05.25 20:58:00 - [9] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: I support CCP's plan to allow Eve Online players control of the manufacturing of our assets mainly for two big reasons: 1. The system is already in place for it and the industry has been working and thriving for 10 years non-stop with many players already establishing effective production chains while figuring out and planning ahead for minimum production costs while also maximizing their gains. 2. Market competition is already in place and will guarantee that Dust players will get a good deal if they are smart enough to know where to look even if they don't have connections to Eve. If an Eve player wants to sell you a 'Thale' sniper rifle for 10 million ISK, you will always find another Eve player willing to sell you the same thing for less. The market is perfectly designed for that kind of stuff in Eve. It would be nice for Dust to have its own industry, but right now Dust doesn't even have anything to start for that except clone production on PC districts. Therefore, it's best that Eve players spearhead the operation. This is exactly why the two economies need to merge as soon as possible. We want that market meta game that CCP sold us on in the first place.
Topher Mellen Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 6	Posted - 2013.05.25 21:33:00 - [10] - Quote Cyn Bruin wrote: Of course EVE players want protosuits to cost more... why wouldnt they? These two guys pushing this 10-20mil a protosuit probably want to manufacture. One more reason CCP shouldnt listen to spaceship nerds when it comes to making their FPS. I believe you skimmed this thread. Here's a quote from my previous post: It isn't that good right now though (refering to prototype suits/gear), therefore the price should stay the same. If CCP had added subsystem slots I would've agreed with your initial post. The two economies should be combined. That is all.

Topher Mellen Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 6	Posted - 2013.05.25 21:46:00 - [11] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Cyn Bruin wrote: Of course EVE players want protosuits to cost more... why wouldnt they? These two guys pushing this 10-20mil a protosuit probably want to manufacture. One more reason CCP shouldnt listen to spaceship nerds when it comes to making their FPS. Actually, CCP should listen to the Eve players for this stuff. Why? Because those "two guys" you're referring to are not the only ones wanting to manufacture and sell. Remember, New Eden is all about market competition. Just because a player in Eve wants to sell you a 10 million ISK 'Thale' sniper rifle it doesn't mean that will be the new price. The price will be dependent on several factors listed below: 1. Supply: The greater the supply, the lower the cost. 2. Demand: The greater the demand, the higher the price. 3. Competition: If I'm selling a 'Thale' for 10 million ISK in Eve, there will always be another player in Eve who wants to sell for a fraction of that price thus stealing my customers while undercutting me. 4. Ease of production: It will depend heavily on how easy it is to produce the items. In Eve, I can produce 100 destroyers with no problem (cheap ships) but I will have a problem trying to produce even 10 interdictors (expensive ships). 5. Availability of materials needed for production: Do you have a tight control on the material or is the material something others can get readily? 6. How much is the buyer willing to pay and how badly do they need it? ^ This. Even if I wanted to make my DUST experience more expensive, I couldn't.
Topher Mellen Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 6	Posted - 2013.05.25 22:20:00 - [12] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Topher Mellen wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Cyn Bruin wrote: Of course EVE players want protosuits to cost more... why wouldnt they? These two guys pushing this 10-20mil a protosuit probably want to manufacture. One more reason CCP shouldnt listen to spaceship nerds when it comes to making their FPS. Actually, CCP should listen to the Eve players for this stuff. Why? Because those "two guys" you're referring to are not the only ones wanting to manufacture and sell. Remember, New Eden is all about market competition. Just because a player in Eve wants to sell you a 10 million ISK 'Thale' sniper rifle it doesn't mean that will be the new price. The price will be dependent on several factors listed below: 1. Supply: The greater the supply, the lower the cost. 2. Demand: The greater the demand, the higher the price. 3. Competition: If I'm selling a 'Thale' for 10 million ISK in Eve, there will always be another player in Eve who wants to sell for a fraction of that price thus stealing my customers while undercutting me. 4. Ease of production: It will depend heavily on how easy it is to produce the items. In Eve, I can produce 100 destroyers with no problem (cheap ships) but I will have a problem trying to produce even 10 interdictors (expensive ships). 5. Availability of materials needed for production: Do you have a tight control on the material or is the material something others can get readily? 6. How much is the buyer willing to pay and how badly do they need it? ^ This. Even if I wanted to make my DUST experience more expensive, I couldn't. Maken has got a point Cyn, if I were the only one that could manufacture Proto suits, you'd be paying a damn sight more than 10-20m ISK per suit. ****, if I were the only one, I'd keep a stable of protoscrubs as my own personal lapdogs just feeding their addictions on the cheap while gouging everyone else. lol, here's to hoping there's no prototype BPO lottery!
Topher Mellen Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 6	Posted - 2013.05.25 22:58:00 - [13] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Cyn Bruin wrote: Of course EVE players want protosuits to cost more... why wouldnt they? These two guys pushing this 10-20mil a protosuit probably want to manufacture. One more reason CCP shouldnt listen to spaceship nerds when it comes to making their FPS. actually CCP dropped the prices of infantry equipment sharply because the EVE manufacturing nerds were enraged that infantry equipment could cost as much as warships. It would have allowed an unchecked and horrendous ISK faucet into New Eden to pay for all of the things, and it would have sharply devalued everyone's ships, or forced a massive cost-inflation. 20 million is more than I need to effectively purchase and fit a fleet capable combat cruiser or buy a specialist frigate class ship or interdictor. why the hell would a suit of infantry body armor be reasonable at even a tenth of that cost? As it stands current fitting costs at prototype level cost about ten proto fits = one fully fitted attack frigate. that's really pushing it on a cost scale. I agree with the impression I took from your post, which was that you believe the general prices of suits are appropriate. I also think that DUST would benefit from a super expensive class of dropsuit (10-20 million, Tech II you might call it) that would be much more customizable and powerful. It would be a waste to use such a suit in public matches on the odd chance that you might die, while still being useful for Planetary Conquest. This would actually allow for quite a nice dynamic. Newer players would be playing in public matches with the current gear, while more advanced players would have to specialize much more, but able to use the more complex and varied gear. I have to say the gear gap currently is not very wide once you realize that you shouldn't be using militia gear at all.
Topher Mellen Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 6	Posted - 2013.05.26 00:23:00 - [14] - Quote As many other players have pointed out there's no detraction from the DUST economy by including the EVE economy. All it would do as far as I can see is add depth to the meta game of DUST, i.e. finding a corp to sponsor your squad. That's beginning to sound a lot more like the EVE universe that we all love.
Topher Mellen Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 6	Posted - 2013.05.26 16:10:00 - [15] - Quote Croned wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: I endorse a single economy, and CCP itself said it was coming, but I don't want the capsuleers to have all the fun. We mercenaries deserve some industry, too! I completely agree with this. If a corp is based entirely in Dust with no EVE connections, yet it has been successful in planetary conquest, it should be able to gather resources from the districts owned and produce products for at least the Dust market. I completely agree with this. Maybe the industry skills should carry over from EVE in some part? I think DUST mercenaries who are organized and successful in Planetary Conquest should also be able to produce items for the EVE market from the station, but that's a pretty big endeavor.
Topher Mellen Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 6	Posted - 2013.05.26 17:47:00 - [16] - Quote low genius wrote: why don't they just put in buy prices at 10% less so we can fund our pursuits on the salvage we pull? An economy through a random loot/salvage system could be an easy fix to this simple problem. DUST players getting good gear for winning a match in the top half of war points and then putting those products up for sale on the market. Could work.
Topher Mellen Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 7	Posted - 2013.05.26 19:05:00 - [17] - Quote KEQ Harbinger wrote: It needs to happen sooner rather than later. However, there are a ton of things to tackle and it really needs to be eased into. I just want Dust to Dust trading / isk transfer (character, not corp) and I'd be happy for now. ^ This. Dust needs its own economy to begin with, but the game's out, and what was promised isn't here. I know that's CCP's style, but with DUST I feel it's a much bigger deal.
Topher Mellen Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 7	Posted - 2013.05.26 20:18:00 - [18] - Quote low genius wrote: Croned wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: I endorse a single economy, and CCP itself said it was coming, but I don't want the capsuleers to have all the fun. We mercenaries deserve some industry, too! I completely agree with this. If a corp is based entirely in Dust with no EVE connections, yet it has been successful in planetary conquest, it should be able to gather resources from the districts owned and produce products for at least the Dust market. the district wouldn't have the resources available to make all that stuff. you need resources from all the planet types just to be a well balanced machine. I agree that you would have to have multiple planets and districts to pull this off, but I still think a well managed DUST corporation should be able to make its own gear.
Topher Mellen Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 7	Posted - 2013.05.26 20:48:00 - [19] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: It will happen, but all the over-reaction of that one event on a server where ISK was worthless has a lot of people unduly worried. I can understand a poor history, but if that's the case keep the game in beta. CCP should be using their SOONtm trick all over the place with DUST. As it is it's a pretend finished game. I bough my PS3 thinking it was about to be released.
Topher Mellen Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 7	Posted - 2013.05.27 02:36:00 - [20] - Quote To get to the market stage, which is most certainly required for a cross game economy, we'll need a much better inventory system. It's so hard to manage gear as it is.

Topher Mellen Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 7	Posted - 2013.05.27 17:40:00 - [21] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: A loophole was found to this iron wall. I think it's pretty obvious that loophole is closed. What's with the hold up?
Topher Mellen Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 7	Posted - 2013.05.28 00:11:00 - [22] - Quote Why does CCP think it's okay to ship an unfinished game? I get that Peter Molyneux thinks he can do that, but CCP knows better.