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Lunamaria Hawkeye
SyNergy Gaming
EoN.
166
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Posted - 2013.05.25 04:17:00 -
[1] - Quote
After some reflection on the respective role bonuses of the Caldari Logistics and Assault suits, I have become convinced that the bonuses for these suits were unintentionally switched. Here is my logic.
The Caldari Assault suit gets a bonus to reload speed. This bonus only makes sense if you do not have a secondary weapon. As you will note, logistics suits are the only ones which do not have a secondary weapon. On the other hand, the Caldari Logistics suit gets a bonus to its shield extender effectiveness, which seems more than a little strange for a suit that is not combat focused, and was specifically described as the least durable of the logistics suits on CCP's test server.
As a result we have Caldari Logistics suits being used as the primary assault suit, due to the combination of its slot layout and current role bonus. This was clearly not its intended use, and I cannot help but think how this issue would be resolved by switching the bonuses. Does this seem reasonable to anyone else? |
Matakage
WildCard Ninja Clan
178
|
Posted - 2013.05.25 04:28:00 -
[2] - Quote
Lunamaria Hawkeye wrote:After some reflection on the respective role bonuses of the Caldari Logistics and Assault suits, I have become convinced that the bonuses for these suits were unintentionally switched. Here is my logic.
The Caldari Assault suit gets a bonus to reload speed. This bonus only makes sense if you do not have a secondary weapon. As you will note, logistics suits are the only ones which do not have a secondary weapon. On the other hand, the Caldari Logistics suit gets a bonus to its shield extender effectiveness, which seems more than a little strange for a suit that is not combat focused, and was specifically described as the least durable of the logistics suits on CCP's test server.
As a result we have Caldari Logistics suits being used as the primary assault suit, due to the combination of its slot layout and current role bonus. This was clearly not its intended use, and I cannot help but think how this issue would be resolved by switching the bonuses. Does this seem reasonable to anyone else?
I agree. This whole "Logistics Suits are now Assault Suits" thing is an epidemic. Turns out, giving a suit an excessive amount of High and Low power slots counteracts the lower shield/armor base value. WHO KNEW?!?!
Well, everyone knew, actually. And what was the reasoning behind it? They have more equipment slots so we need to give them more High/Low power slots so they can equip CPU and PG upgrades? No! You give them LESS High/Low power slots than the Assault suits and give them HIGHER base values of CPU/PG!
The whole issue just makes me want to shake my head... eternally. |
Obodiah Garro
Tech Guard
General Tso's Alliance
18
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Posted - 2013.05.25 04:40:00 -
[3] - Quote
Also factor in the reload bonus is completely useless compared to the other assault suit bonus's |
mrunknown2u2
Ill Omens
EoN.
28
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Posted - 2013.05.25 04:57:00 -
[4] - Quote
reload is nice but not as good as some of the other bonuses
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Lunamaria Hawkeye
SyNergy Gaming
EoN.
171
|
Posted - 2013.05.25 05:16:00 -
[5] - Quote
mrunknown2u2 wrote:reload is nice but not as good as some of the other bonuses
Yea but reload speed is not something to be worried about when you can quickly switch to a secondary. On the other hand a logi is totally vulnerable when he reloads so they would want to minimize this as much as possible. |
Lance 2ballzStrong
SyNergy Gaming
EoN.
1943
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Posted - 2013.05.25 05:32:00 -
[6] - Quote
good catch, +1 |
GLiMPSE X
Gigolos of the Interwebz
74
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Posted - 2013.05.25 05:35:00 -
[7] - Quote
Lunamaria Hawkeye wrote:mrunknown2u2 wrote:reload is nice but not as good as some of the other bonuses
Yea but reload speed is not something to be worried about when you can quickly switch to a secondary. On the other hand a logi is totally vulnerable when he reloads so they would want to minimize this as much as possible.
Pfft, who'd want to switch to a subpar non tar weapon when you could quickly reload it and take out the other 3 members of the 6 man squad you just rolled through. |
Lunamaria Hawkeye
SyNergy Gaming
EoN.
172
|
Posted - 2013.05.26 02:19:00 -
[8] - Quote
GLiMPSE X wrote:Lunamaria Hawkeye wrote:mrunknown2u2 wrote:reload is nice but not as good as some of the other bonuses
Yea but reload speed is not something to be worried about when you can quickly switch to a secondary. On the other hand a logi is totally vulnerable when he reloads so they would want to minimize this as much as possible. Pfft, who'd want to switch to a subpar non tar weapon when you could quickly reload it and take out the other 3 members of the 6 man squad you just rolled through.
Decent player would kill you while you reload, and shame on you if you can't finish a gunfight with a TAR before reloading. In any case my point still stands. |
Lunamaria Hawkeye
SyNergy Gaming
EoN.
173
|
Posted - 2013.05.26 22:58:00 -
[9] - Quote
still believe that I am right on this, and would love a developer's perspective on the matter. |
Celvice Kleine
DUST University
Ivy League
7
|
Posted - 2013.05.26 23:22:00 -
[10] - Quote
Except that looking at all the stats of the Caldari logi makes it clear that it was intended as more of a front-line unit than the others.
I suspect the reload bonus was meant for the plasma cannon.
P.S.
Also, comparing a 25% shield buff to the other assault bonuses makes it too obviously OP. |
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Lunamaria Hawkeye
SyNergy Gaming
EoN.
173
|
Posted - 2013.05.27 00:28:00 -
[11] - Quote
Celvice Kleine wrote:Except that looking at all the stats of the Caldari logi makes it clear that it was intended as more of a front-line unit than the others.
I suspect the reload bonus was meant for the plasma cannon.
P.S.
Also, comparing a 25% shield buff to the other assault bonuses makes it too obviously OP.
That bonus on top of extra high slots makes the logi even more ridiculously tanky. I cannot believe that this was intended. Some logi suits are more durable than others, but none of them are supposed to be your frontline fighters.
Also, giving a bonus to a gallente plasma cannon on a caldari suit does not make a whole lot of sense to me. Even if they did want to do that, why not just give it a buff to the plasma cannon specifically rather than a generic buff? |
Revolving Dyce
ZionTCD
Unclaimed.
2
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Posted - 2013.05.27 22:57:00 -
[12] - Quote
Celvice Kleine wrote:Except that looking at all the stats of the Caldari logi makes it clear that it was intended as more of a front-line unit than the others. Pretty sure that the front line roles are already filled by heavies and assault characters, why would they overlap and make a assault/frontline/support/logistics hybrid that attempts to be balanced yet by the very outline it seems to try and take the role that assault would normally fill....
Celvice Kleine wrote:Also, comparing a 25% shield buff to the other assault bonuses makes it too obviously OP. Very mcuh agree with this statement
Matakage wrote:They have more equipment slots so we need to give them more High/Low power slots so they can equip CPU and PG upgrades? No! You give them LESS High/Low power slots than the Assault suits and give them HIGHER base values of CPU/PG Currently logistics suits have higher CPU/PG values than assault, what I would suggest is making the assault suits have a slightly higher shield value per suit(2% increase per meta level) which will be make much more substantial by the skill that adds 3% or 5% to dropsuit shield per level so the higher level suits have more incentive to upgrade as well.
Lunamaria Hawkeye wrote:That bonus on top of extra high slots makes the logi even more ridiculously tanky. I cannot believe that this was intended. Some logi suits are more durable than others, but none of them are supposed to be your frontline fighters. Well said, I can't agree more.
As a person who runs caldari logi as a logistics i agree its currently OP in the shielding department, what i'd rather see is reduction in PG/CPU for shield extender modules or a reduction in stacking penalty later on when they get the penalties actually working correctly to put more emphasis on role dependancy....
Kinda cryptic when you word it that way, so allow me to elaborate on what I mean by role dependancy. An assault caldari is expected to be on the front lines ASSAULTING....right? whereas a logistics caldari is expected to play his role as a support character by repping, reviving, resupplying, and providing uplink respawn points.
What would enhance this experience to make a logi more capable as a support individual rather than being abused as a makeshift assault?
I would like to ask for other ideas to possibly help create a more beneficial caldari logistics balance.
- The initial idea of swapping the reload speed bonus and shield extender module effiacy(Lunamaria Hawkeye)
- Reduced CPU/PG usage by (2-5)% per level for each shield extender module for skill level 1-5
(still seems highly abuseable).
- Reduced stacking penalty of shield extender modules(When stacking penalty becomes applicable).
- Increased scan profile per shield extender module used by default, while the caldari skill would counterbalance this effect(this idea taken from an old thread from pre-update that i cannot find).
- Movement speed variations:(Caldari Assault 5.0m/s)(Caldari Logistics 4.7m/s)
As for caldari logistics possibly reducing the movement speed(4.7m/s) by say ...7%(4.371m/s)at meta level 1 and a reduction of 1% per meta level to make the proto 4.7m/s, reducing its assault potential, possibly even make this uniform for all logi suits to help it fit the logistics role.
- Logistics suit repair tool multiplier: 2-3%Repair tool effiacy per level of repair tool operation skill.
Meta level suits 1-7 Standard-Prototype
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Celvice Kleine
DUST University
Ivy League
7
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 01:51:00 -
[13] - Quote
Revolving Dyce wrote:Celvice Kleine wrote:Except that looking at all the stats of the Caldari logi makes it clear that it was intended as more of a front-line unit than the others. Pretty sure that the front line roles are already filled by heavies and assault characters, why would they overlap and make a assault/frontline/support/logistics hybrid that attempts to be balanced yet by the very outline it seems to try and take the role that assault would normally fill....
I don't think it was intended to be such an effective assault frame, but having a suit that fills the space between classes isn't a bad thing, and there are examples of similar in EvE ships. If anything, I'm disappointed that they didn't make the minmatar assault frame more scout-ish.
Where things went wrong, I suspect, is that they over estimated how attached people are to their sidearm slot. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
4034
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 02:04:00 -
[14] - Quote
Assault get bonuses for their weapons, though the Caldari logi's bonus belongs on the future Caldari heavy. |
Lunamaria Hawkeye
SyNergy Gaming
EoN.
178
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 18:15:00 -
[15] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Assault get bonuses for their weapons, though the Caldari logi's bonus belongs on the future Caldari heavy.
Probably a good point, but i feel bad for that caldari heavy, better hope no one is running flux nades..... |
Revolving Dyce
ZionTCD
Unclaimed.
3
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 06:28:00 -
[16] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Assault get bonuses for their weapons, though the Caldari logi's bonus belongs on the future Caldari heavy.
In my opinion that would entirely depend on how they change the heavy suit options, im really hoping they return the tiered HP setup in the future which would allow for lighter and faster heavy suit loadouts while still running with optimal shield HP
As usual shield specializing your clone will become vulnerable to flux grenades and scrambler rifles just as suits with armor speccializatoin stacked on them are vulnerable to explosives.....and everyone carries locus grenades....just remember to throw AFTER the shield is down not before for most favorable results against red dots. :)
Celvice Kleine wrote:Revolving Dyce wrote:Celvice Kleine wrote:Except that looking at all the stats of the Caldari logi makes it clear that it was intended as more of a front-line unit than the others. Pretty sure that the front line roles are already filled by heavies and assault characters, why would they overlap and make a assault/frontline/support/logistics hybrid that attempts to be balanced yet by the very outline it seems to try and take the role that assault would normally fill.... I don't think it was intended to be such an effective assault frame, but having a suit that fills the space between classes isn't a bad thing, and there are examples of similar in EvE ships. If anything, I'm disappointed that they didn't make the minmatar assault frame more scout-ish. Where things went wrong, I suspect, is that they over estimated how attached people are to their sidearm slot.
I too think they want a frame that is between logistics and assault....lo and behold...they put it in the medium frame suit! An area where the specialization is still optional to give someone the option to go either logistics or assault while still having a capable suit in prototype level of PG/CPU .
...I mean honestly in a game where you can spec into any role you wish....and say theoretically you are attempting to use the logistics suit as a assault suit i think maybe you are misunderstanding your responsibilities as a logibro to your teammates.
In this game you have a role, you play your role and people expect you to, if you neglect to play that role then the oucome of the games you play will reflect that.
Sooo much for constructive feedback on ways to further balance the suit i suppose... |
FLAYLOCK Steve
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
0
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 02:19:00 -
[17] - Quote
Lunamaria Hawkeye wrote:After some reflection on the respective role. Bonuses of the Caldari Logistics and Assault suits, I have become convinced that the bonuses for these suits were unintentionally switched. Here is my logic.
The Caldari Assault suit gets a bonus to reload speed. This bonus only makes sense if you do not have a secondary weapon. As you will note, logistics suits are the only ones which do not have a secondary weapon. On the other hand, the Caldari Logistics suit gets a bonus to its shield extender effectiveness, which seems more than a little strange for a suit that is not combat focused, and was specifically described as the least durable of the logistics suits on CCP's test server.
As a result we have Caldari Logistics suits being used as the primary assault suit, due to the combination of its slot layout and current role bonus. This was clearly not its intended use, and I cannot help but think how this issue would be resolved by switching the bonuses. Does this seem reasonable to anyone else?
No side arm. I think it's a fair trade of but of course nobody is ever satisfied. Pathetic |
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