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Panther Alpha WarRavens 284	Posted - 2013.05.25 00:10:00 - [31] - Quote Aquinarius Zoltanus wrote: Konohamaru Sarutobi wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: The problem is that it simply outclasses the other weapons in nearly everything. It has not the range of a sniper rifle and can't kill with 2 shoots from the other side of the map. It has not the power of a shotgun and can't kill with 1/2 shoots all the people in from of it, assault, heavies, etc. Don't know what you talk about Yeah, so sniper rifle is good at extremely long ranges and shotgun I good at extremely close ranges. But for the other 95% of ranges where most engagements take place, the AR absolutely dominates. That's the problem. So.. what you saying is; that we should kill each other from long range, and close range only ?.. that sounds very boring....
Dust HaHakoke D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 7	Posted - 2013.05.25 00:13:00 - [32] - Quote I find the only AR that i can actually say is OP is the TAR. Not too much needs to be done except a ROF nerf it shouldnt be able to out dps an hmg in cqc.
Herpn Derpidus Outkast Blood 26	Posted - 2013.05.25 00:14:00 - [33] - Quote Chinduko wrote: I'd take a TAC over a sniper rifle for it's long and short range capability and any AR over a shotgun anytime in CQC. Sniper rifles only work for long ranges, shotguns take more skill to use as CQC weapon. ARs are much easier to handle with no recoil, have excellent range, pinpoint accuracy, and excellent hip fire. It's the hands down choice of weapon to use for anyone from the highly skilled to the novice players. not to mention its very light in terms of cpu and pg
Herpn Derpidus Outkast Blood 26	Posted - 2013.05.25 00:16:00 - [34] - Quote Panther Alpha wrote: Aquinarius Zoltanus wrote: Konohamaru Sarutobi wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: The problem is that it simply outclasses the other weapons in nearly everything. It has not the range of a sniper rifle and can't kill with 2 shoots from the other side of the map. It has not the power of a shotgun and can't kill with 1/2 shoots all the people in from of it, assault, heavies, etc. Don't know what you talk about Yeah, so sniper rifle is good at extremely long ranges and shotgun I good at extremely close ranges. But for the other 95% of ranges where most engagements take place, the AR absolutely dominates. That's the problem. So.. what you saying is; that we should kill each other from long range, and close range only ?.. that sounds very boring.... no hes saying that the maps in this game have such diversity that if your in the 5% not dominated by the AR then you are probably forced to camp in a very small portion of the map and are therfore very very limited
Konohamaru Sarutobi Ahrendee Mercenaries 233	Posted - 2013.05.25 00:21:00 - [35] - Quote Oh my Jesus guys! Think with your head, not with your feet. The shotgun is very good at close distance but it's not good at large distance. The sniper rifle is very good at large distance but it's not good at close distance, the forge gun is very good as an AV weapon, but is harder to use it as an anti infantry weapon. The assault rifle is not that good like the shotgun at close distance, but it's not that bad at large distance like the shotgun. The assault rifle is not that good at large distance like the sniper rifle, but it's not that bad at large distance like the sniper rifle. The assault rifle is not good as an AV weapon like the forge gun, but it's not that bad as an anti infantry weapon like the forge gun. The assault rifle is NORMAL. So, what's the problem? The problem is that if you suck with a shotgun at close distance, a normal AR player will kill you. The problem is that if you suck with a sniper rifle at large distance, a normal AR player will get closer and kill you. Welcome to New Eden. Adapt or Die. If it is yellow, don't drink it
McFurious BetaMax. CRONOS. 78	Posted - 2013.05.25 00:21:00 - [36] - Quote AR's got range nerfed pretty hard and I think they're way down the list of things that are wrong with Uprising. They just shouldn't have nerfed everything else so hard.
Panther Alpha WarRavens 284	Posted - 2013.05.25 00:31:00 - [37] - Quote Herpn Derpidus wrote: Panther Alpha wrote: Aquinarius Zoltanus wrote: Konohamaru Sarutobi wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: The problem is that it simply outclasses the other weapons in nearly everything. It has not the range of a sniper rifle and can't kill with 2 shoots from the other side of the map. It has not the power of a shotgun and can't kill with 1/2 shoots all the people in from of it, assault, heavies, etc. Don't know what you talk about Yeah, so sniper rifle is good at extremely long ranges and shotgun I good at extremely close ranges. But for the other 95% of ranges where most engagements take place, the AR absolutely dominates. That's the problem. So.. what you saying is; that we should kill each other from long range, and close range only ?.. that sounds very boring.... no hes saying that the maps in this game have such diversity that if your in the 5% not dominated by the AR then you are probably forced to camp in a very small portion of the map and are therfore very very limited So what you want ? ... a shotgun that have the same range as a sniper gun ? and a sniper gun that can be use at close range like a shotgun ?...Every gun have their use, if you don't like camping with a Sniper gun, use an AR, and rush around killing people at mid range..if you don't like that, use a shotgun and ambush people in choke areas ... I'm tired now... i'm off to bed... Learn the rest from a book,,, or use google.
Jotun Hiem The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION 698	Posted - 2013.05.25 00:34:00 - [38] - Quote Konohamaru Sarutobi wrote: Oh my Jesus guys! Think with your head, not with your feet. The shotgun is very good at close distance but it's not good at large distance. The sniper rifle is very good at large distance but it's not good at close distance, the forge gun is very good as an AV weapon, but is harder to use it as an anti infantry weapon. The assault rifle is not that good like the shotgun at close distance, but it's not that bad at large distance like the shotgun. The assault rifle is not that good at large distance like the sniper rifle, but it's not that bad at large distance like the sniper rifle. The assault rifle is not good as an AV weapon like the forge gun, but it's not that bad as an anti infantry weapon like the forge gun. The assault rifle is NORMAL. So, what's the problem? The problem is that if you suck with a shotgun at close distance, a normal AR player will kill you. The problem is that if you suck with a sniper rifle at large distance, a normal AR player will get closer and kill you. Welcome to New Eden. Adapt or Die. If it is yellow, don't drink it The problem is that the TAC will deal more damage per second at close quarters than the shotgun will. My Heavy suit has been taken down so quickly by one that I was on the ground before my armor counter had reached zero. It needs a significant decrease to its rate of fire.
Asmodeus Reinhart lufafas marines 6	Posted - 2013.05.25 00:43:00 - [39] - Quote Aquinarius Zoltanus wrote: Yeah, so sniper rifle is good at extremely long ranges and shotgun I good at extremely close ranges. But for the other 95% of ranges where most engagements take place, the AR absolutely dominates. That's the problem. Why do you think every modern military on this planet fields an assault rifle as the primary weapon? Supplemented with the other stuff, but... the main rifle issued is an assault rifle. It's the jack of all trades weapon. Welcome to real life. Is it probable that a game emulating combat would somewhat follow reality?
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1418	Posted - 2013.05.25 00:48:00 - [40] - Quote Asmodeus Reinhart wrote: Aquinarius Zoltanus wrote: Yeah, so sniper rifle is good at extremely long ranges and shotgun I good at extremely close ranges. But for the other 95% of ranges where most engagements take place, the AR absolutely dominates. That's the problem. Why do you think every modern military on this planet fields an assault rifle as the primary weapon? Supplemented with the other stuff, but... the main rifle issued is an assault rifle. It's the jack of all trades weapon. Welcome to real life. Is it probable that a game emulating combat would somewhat follow reality? We're playing a video game, what matters is if the gameplay is FUN. Why bother with supplying us with all of these different weapons if only fools and casuals will ever bother using them? The great things about video games is that they can suspend reality for the sake of excitement, diversity, enjoyment, etc. This game has a lot of cool weapons with fun to use mechanics, but the DPS of the assault rifle mixed with it's very large efficiency range makes all of those cool weapons with fun mechanics obsolete. When the simplest and easiest gun in the game is also, by far, the most powerful and most versatile, the gameplay suffers. Generally with FPS, the easier a gun is to use, the lower it's DPS. This way, using weapons with more complicated aiming mechanics, or with tougher to manage drawbacks are offset by their higher damage. In this game, it's exactly the opposite, the easier the gun is to use, the more damage it does. It doesn't make any sense from a gameplay perspective.

Mike Poole Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 56	Posted - 2013.05.25 00:57:00 - [41] - Quote Jotun Hiem wrote: The TAC will drop my tanked heavy suit in close quarters faster than my HMG can take down an assault in the same situation. I've head deaths where the TAC will actually kill me faster than a shotgun could. How true this is is seriously f'd up. Using my Heavy I've been dropped from full shields/armor by a TAC before I could even react far too often. Just earlier I was coming up against someone with a TAC and as they were forced into the open in my HMG range and I had full cover 1 foot away to duck behind if things got bad I figured I had the advantage. As I fired my HMG and they unloaded their TAC at lightning speed I didn't even have time to even move in the direction of the cover before I'd already hit the ground.
Mike Poole Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 56	Posted - 2013.05.25 01:02:00 - [42] - Quote Asmodeus Reinhart wrote: Why do you think every modern military on this planet fields an assault rifle as the primary weapon? Supplemented with the other stuff, but... the main rifle issued is an assault rifle. It's the jack of all trades weapon. Welcome to real life. Is it probable that a game emulating combat would somewhat follow reality? I'm pretty sure the prevalence of the AR in the modern military could be easily explained by a distinct lack of development in the hand held mass driver and laser based weaponry departments.
Mark0h SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 30	Posted - 2013.05.25 01:12:00 - [43] - Quote To many Tac rifle users to make it tactical. More like Logical Assault rifle.
Cass Barr Red Star. EoN. 56	Posted - 2013.05.25 01:13:00 - [44] - Quote Mike Poole wrote: Jotun Hiem wrote: The TAC will drop my tanked heavy suit in close quarters faster than my HMG can take down an assault in the same situation. I've head deaths where the TAC will actually kill me faster than a shotgun could. How true this is is seriously f'd up. Using my Heavy I've been dropped from full shields/armor by a TAC before I could even react far too often. Just earlier I was coming up against someone with a TAC and as they were forced into the open in my HMG range and I had full cover 1 foot away to duck behind if things got bad I figured I had the advantage. As I fired my HMG and they unloaded their TAC at lightning speed I didn't even have time to even move in the direction of the cover before I'd already hit the ground. How much HP on your heavy?
Mark0h SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 30	Posted - 2013.05.25 01:15:00 - [45] - Quote All I know is that my helmet is to vulnerable to TAC rifle rounds. Buff dropsuit helmets please.
Sgt Buttscratch G I A N T EoN. 71	Posted - 2013.05.25 01:17:00 - [46] - Quote Konohamaru Sarutobi wrote: Is not an "easy person" that you can touch anytime you want. Leave him/her alone! <3 aren't you tho "nerf snipers" guy?
Tectonic Fusion The Unholy Legion of Darkstar DARKSTAR ARMY 17	Posted - 2013.05.25 01:19:00 - [47] - Quote Panther Alpha wrote: Rorschach Mustang wrote: Welcome to the world where everything except the AR gets nerfed. The TAC is a bit OP... but all the other AR's has been nerfed. Try the GEK-38 yourself, and you'll see that is not " Easy " to use. And when is the last time you got kill by a Burst Rifle ? It was bad in the previous build, in this one is useless. Lies... I use the GEK-38 with and it's better than last build because of the sight. So it's the easiest gun besides the scrambler pistol and the assault scrambler rifle.
Obodiah Garro Tech Guard General Tso's Alliance 11	Posted - 2013.05.25 01:20:00 - [48] - Quote They need to sort out the sensitivity when aiming with the TAC, seriously, I zoom in I fire my first shot then every shot after it is all over the place. I then either get shot dead while reloading the gun or get run over by an enemy LAV.
Cass Barr Red Star. EoN. 56	Posted - 2013.05.25 01:23:00 - [49] - Quote Obodiah Garro wrote: They need to sort out the sensitivity when aiming with the TAC, seriously, I zoom in I fire my first shot then every shot after it is all over the place. I then either get shot dead while reloading the gun or get run over by an enemy LAV. This is obviously a lie. The LAV would have hit you before the mag was empty. Oh, and people keep constantly saying that TAR's have no recoil, so it must be true.
Obodiah Garro Tech Guard General Tso's Alliance 11	Posted - 2013.05.25 01:27:00 - [50] - Quote Cass Barr wrote: Obodiah Garro wrote: They need to sort out the sensitivity when aiming with the TAC, seriously, I zoom in I fire my first shot then every shot after it is all over the place. I then either get shot dead while reloading the gun or get run over by an enemy LAV. This is obviously a lie. The LAV would have hit you before the mag was empty. Sometimes they do I wont lie about that, hell if my clone was capable of climbing fences I might have made it so its kind of a shame. Still, the target I managed to get 1 shot onto still gets to run around as a free as a bird.

Shijima Kuraimaru WarRavens 204	Posted - 2013.05.25 04:23:00 - [51] - Quote Asmodeus Reinhart wrote: Aquinarius Zoltanus wrote: Yeah, so sniper rifle is good at extremely long ranges and shotgun I good at extremely close ranges. But for the other 95% of ranges where most engagements take place, the AR absolutely dominates. That's the problem. Why do you think every modern military on this planet fields an assault rifle as the primary weapon? Supplemented with the other stuff, but... the main rifle issued is an assault rifle. It's the jack of all trades weapon. Welcome to real life. Is it probable that a game emulating combat would somewhat follow reality? Well if we go by your premise, then the HMG would shred any infantry target caught in it's 1 to 1.2 km kill zone with a max 1m dispersion at max range. The sniper rifles would OHK all infantry and have an effective range of around 7.5km, and the forge would max out at over 15km. ARs would range between 500 to 700 meters. That's just a small sampling. The scary part would be the damage and range on all large turrets. There's got to be balance, but ranges shouldn't be be equivalent to airsoft and the HMG should be better than a high speed spitball projector. BTW... I'm a dedicated FG wielder so calling me a HMG wh*re is pointless. LOL
Panther Alpha WarRavens 284	Posted - 2013.05.25 09:18:00 - [52] - Quote Tectonic Fusion wrote: Panther Alpha wrote: Rorschach Mustang wrote: Welcome to the world where everything except the AR gets nerfed. The TAC is a bit OP... but all the other AR's has been nerfed. Try the GEK-38 yourself, and you'll see that is not " Easy " to use. And when is the last time you got kill by a Burst Rifle ? It was bad in the previous build, in this one is useless. Lies... I use the GEK-38 with and it's better than last build because of the sight. So it's the easiest gun besides the scrambler pistol and the assault scrambler rifle. The GEK-38 is better that in the previous build, because the sight .....? I don't even know how to response to this, without getting ban for a month....
Jenova's Witness Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 24	Posted - 2013.05.25 09:40:00 - [53] - Quote The problem with the AR is that it's being used as a placeholder for all the other racial variants of the assault rifle. The TAR is essentially a Caldari rifle tech demo, while the other variants have too much range to be classified as a high DPS, mid/short range Gallente plasma rifle. The SR is way off from a lore standpoint because EM pules should have a superior range compared to plasma, which isn't the case. The entire AR class has the range and incidental damage of a Minmatar weapon without the penalty to shields but bonus to armor and the TAR adds to this problem because it makes the AR too versatile for its own good while giving it the strengths of all the racial weapons, yet none of the weaknesses. Read Templar One by Tony Gonzales and look at how much of the lore and applied science actually translates to Dust 514. You'd be surprised how almost none of it makes any sense due to the lack of other weapons to balance out the assault rifle class of weapon with each racial variant having its own strengths and weaknesses. This is also translates to issues with the HMG because there aren't any other anti-infantry heavy weapon variants to round out how a heavy weapon should be balanced and leaves its DPS being scaled with the light weapon class, which is counter productive.
Sir Petersen Valhalla Nord 133	Posted - 2013.05.25 09:52:00 - [54] - Quote Yes. Let it go. The AR-¦s are lovely the way they are right now.
Jenova's Witness Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 24	Posted - 2013.05.25 09:53:00 - [55] - Quote Sir Petersen wrote: Yes. Let it go. The AR-¦s are lovely the way they are right now. If terms like balance or tradeoff are foreign to you.
Herpn Derpidus Outkast Blood 28	Posted - 2013.05.28 16:49:00 - [56] - Quote Yeah, so sniper rifle is good at extremely long ranges and shotgun I good at extremely close ranges. But for the other 95% of ranges where most engagements take place, the AR absolutely dominates. That's the problem.[/quote] So.. what you saying is; that we should kill each other from long range, and close range only ?.. that sounds very boring....[/quote] no hes saying that the maps in this game have such diversity that if your in the 5% not dominated by the AR then you are probably forced to camp in a very small portion of the map and are therfore very very limited[/quote] So what you want ? ... a shotgun that have the same range as a sniper gun ? and a sniper gun that can be use at close range like a shotgun ?...Every gun have their use, if you don't like camping with a Sniper gun, use an AR, and rush around killing people at mid range..if you don't like that, use a shotgun and ambush people in choke areas ... I'm tired now... i'm off to bed... Learn the rest from a book,,, or use google.[/quote] your taking a small statement and jumping to way too big of conclusions from it, there are more guns than just the shotgun and sniper rifle, but no one would know because the AR out preforms all of them, im talking about the SR and the LR, the shotgun and sniper rifle arent that out preformed by an assault rifle because there are situations where they work beter, but those situations arent very common, im not asking for a beter shotgun at range and a close range sniper, nobody wants that nor ever said they did, that would be pointless. but right now the advantage to using an assaultrifle overall almost always beats the little situational advantage you get from a shotgun, if there was a side arm with actual range then i would probably feel more comfortable with a shotgun
Otoky DIOS EX. Gentlemen's Agreement 110	Posted - 2013.05.28 16:53:00 - [57] - Quote Konohamaru Sarutobi wrote: Is not an "easy person" that you can touch anytime you want. Leave him/her alone! <3 How many laser you seen after Uprising?
Herpn Derpidus Outkast Blood 28	Posted - 2013.05.28 16:55:00 - [58] - Quote Cass Barr wrote: Mike Poole wrote: Jotun Hiem wrote: The TAC will drop my tanked heavy suit in close quarters faster than my HMG can take down an assault in the same situation. I've head deaths where the TAC will actually kill me faster than a shotgun could. How true this is is seriously f'd up. Using my Heavy I've been dropped from full shields/armor by a TAC before I could even react far too often. Just earlier I was coming up against someone with a TAC and as they were forced into the open in my HMG range and I had full cover 1 foot away to duck behind if things got bad I figured I had the advantage. As I fired my HMG and they unloaded their TAC at lightning speed I didn't even have time to even move in the direction of the cover before I'd already hit the ground. How much HP on your heavy? i think all they need to do to the TAR to really fix it is make its macx fire rates lower, thats all, cause right now its just a super death stream if you can tap the button fast
Cat Merc BetaMax. CRONOS. 1117	Posted - 2013.05.28 17:01:00 - [59] - Quote People here are talking like the TAR encompasses the entire AR range of weapons. Well, it does not, and the only weapon that needs a nerf is the TAR. When someone says "this weapon is better in its niche" then someone says "you should try the TAR". And although he is correct, that doesn't mean the rest of the AR's are broken. The burst assault rifle is bad, that means every AR needs a buff right? ^What you people sound to me, only in the opposite way. The only acceptable nerf for the AR would be the clip size. I don't think it needs 60 bullets in a clip. On the average assault, hitting every bullet will give you a kill in 11-12 bullets. Giving some room for error, that's around 20-30 bullets for person depending on how wasteful you are. That means the AR is very very very forgiving for missing. And that's assuming no damage mods or skills, and using the standard AR. I would drop it to 48, but its not necessary and the weapon is balanced without it.
Cat Merc BetaMax. CRONOS. 1118	Posted - 2013.05.28 17:54:00 - [60] - Quote meow



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