DUST Search - [Feedback] Scrambler rifle / tac AR comparison + other related feedback

Etero Narciss wrote:

CCP Remnant wrote:

We'll be making some adjustments to the rifle ranges in the near future. We're currently testing the Rail Rifle and Combat Rifle internally (the two missing archetypes). Within the assault rifle class the four weapon types will break down as follows:

Assault Rifle (Hybrid - Plasma) - short range
Combat Rifle (Projectile - Autocannon) - short-mid range
Scrambler Rifle (Laser - Pulse) - mid range
Rail Rifle (Hybrid - Railgun) - long range

Keep in mind though that long range for an assault rifle is not equivalent to long range for a sniper rifle, so while they will adhere to existing category definitions don't expect massive differences in the distances between these weapons
A lot of the original assault rifle variants (Breach, Burst, Tactical) were created to fill the gaps these newer weapons will fill and so mightGÇÖve felt out of place (not to mention we just plain made mistakes with some of them). The scrambler rifleGÇÖs optimal range will be increased and weGÇÖll be releasing an iteration of the Tactical Assault Rifle with a smaller clip and much wider hip-fire spread making it less effective in CQC. If that change alone does not prove enough we will walk the damage of the TAR down slowly. No big, sweeping changes this time.

I have a question about the bolded part:

So when the remaining two do release, will the two relevant Assault variants be removed?


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 6 post(s)
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3966	Posted - 2013.05.24 04:59:00 - [1] - Quote All stats are prototype level Ranges found here [Comparison] Scrambler rifle Damage per shot: 79.2 Maximum DPS (with modded controller): 931.79 DPS if 5 shots fired per second: Damage before stopping (overheat reload): When I shoot to overheat the fastest, I can fire 15 shots before overheating which is 1188 damage, and the magazine contains 3564 damage, so 1188-3564 Maximum range: 87 Effective range: 1-48 Tactical assault rifle Damage per shot: 78.5 Maximum DPS (with modded controller): 1032.93 DPS if 5 shots fired per second: 392.5 Damage before stopping (reload): 2355 Maximum range: 100 Effective range: 1-65 I don't know how much damage the charge shot does exactly, but in the 2 seconds it takes to fully charge, a tactical AR can deal over 2,000 damage (with modded controller), or 792 damage if 5 shots are fired per second. Out of these long range single fire rifles, the tactical AR beats the scrambler rifle in maximum range, in effective range, damage per second. The overheat mechanic severely limits the amount of damage it can dish out, and the only way to avoid overheat is to sacrifice shot frequency which means even less DPS. The tactical AR is extremely deadly at both extreme ranges (exceeding the laser), and at close range. The scrambler rifle by comparison suffers from very steep damage dropoff (charge shots sometimes only take out shields at long ranges), and it is just plain useless for CQC because of the overheating. Why is the tactical which has superior range also better at CQC? Why is the scrambler rifle terrible for CQC despite its inferior range? [Solution] All assault rifles including the tactical are blasters, which are suppose to be short range by comparison to other weapon types. Laser weapons are suppose to be long range. With this in mind, I think it would be a good idea to nerf the range of the tactical, and buff the range of the the scrambler. A scope with similar zoom as the tactical would be nice as well (though keep the current sight for the assault scrambler). A modest reduction in scrambler rifle heat build up would also be nice. [Other] Limit all single fire rifles to 420 RPM (7 shots per second) to prevent abuse by modded controllers. No one can do 700 RPM anyway without modded controllers, so its pointless to have it so high. The scrambler rifle operations skill bonus is useless for the assault scrambler rifle since it doesn't have charge. The Amarr assault bonus is useless for the assault scrambler rifle since it never overheats anyway, you can empty out a magazine and not overheat. Thank you for reading.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3969	Posted - 2013.05.24 11:10:00 - [2] - Quote 137H4RGIC wrote: It is kind of silly to say that ARs should reign supreme when a Heavy is involved. HMGs are the king of CQB, followed by shotguns. Only now do I finally understand why ARs have a 60m range, and heavies have 30. Still though, in open maps, heavies are just downright useless. They're immobile, and rangeless. I have been picked off by TARs at 60m quite often, and it's irritating because if I close the distance, they'll only do more damage. Thus, my only option is to run and find cover as soon as I can. And hope, he doesn't Sight camp me until more buddies have arrived. This has nothing to do with the heavy or the HMG, and I agree the HMG needs more range, but that is not the point of this thread at all. This thread is balancing the Amarr and Gallente racial rifles (scrambler rifle and assault rifle).
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3990	Posted - 2013.05.26 16:40:00 - [3] - Quote Holy crap, actually overheated an assault scrambler rifle, took a lot of shooting and reloading. It still almost never happens, which makes the Amarr assault bonus almost useless.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 4025	Posted - 2013.05.27 14:37:00 - [4] - Quote https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=81967&find=unread This would also be nice
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 4028	Posted - 2013.05.27 15:54:00 - [5] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: I haven't used a scrambler rifle yet, but I want to. People never seem to factor in charge damage and headshot damage. There isn't a big headshot multiplier like the scrambler pistol, and I did factor in the charge. The time it takes to charge, a tac rifle user could do over 700 damage (over 2000 if using modded controller). Jathniel wrote: +1 I agree with this post. But I disagree with the heat build-up reduction request. That heat build-up is KEY in maintaining the weapon's balance. If you remove that, and give it the other buffs, you're asking for QQ troubles. Right now, no one complains about getting downed by a Scrambler. I've gotten quite good at managing the heat on both the standard and assault variants. SCR and SCAR users just need to adjust their management. When the Heat meter says you can't keep attacking, then you simply need to pull back and cooldown. Don't move in for the assault unless you are 100% confident you can down your target without overheating. Otherwise, the OP is spot on. The fact that no one complained about a weapon being OP doesn't mean it its balanced since it could mean the weapon is just underpowered. Example: Nova knives before Uprising. The heat buildup reduction I am asking for is pretty small, I'm not asking to be able to empty out an entire magazine. A standard AR can deal 2040 damage without stopping, while a prototype scrambler can overheat before 1,200 (even lower for some). Sure players can pace their shots better to avoid overheat, but that seriously reduces the DPS which means the player is forced to either sacrifice their DPS to a level where they can't be competitive with ARs, or they have to sacrifice their ability to keep outputting damage which leave them defenseless; either sacrifice puts the player at a grave disadvantage, and what isn't sacrificed pales in comparison to the ARs'.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 4034	Posted - 2013.05.28 03:15:00 - [6] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: Severance Pay wrote: Can we test them, and tell you what we think? Can I have an account to test server and give you honest feedback? I wish you all could. We currently don't have A SiSi like server for DUST. Wish we did. Would love the feedback earlier. You could create a separate Dust client for testing and let a few of us in on select days. MAG did that like a year after its released to let some players test out stuff that was coming in the MAG 2.0 patch.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 4034	Posted - 2013.05.28 03:29:00 - [7] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: You could create a separate Dust client for testing and let a few of us in on select days. MAG did that like a year after its released to let some players test out stuff that was coming in the MAG 2.0 patch. I think the issue is more related to setting up/running/maintaining a separate server though I'm far from the right person to ask. I'll poke some people though and find out how feasible something like this could be. Alright, please tell us if it turns out to be feasible or likely to be done in the future
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 4036	Posted - 2013.05.28 05:24:00 - [8] - Quote Etero Narciss wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: We'll be making some adjustments to the rifle ranges in the near future. We're currently testing the Rail Rifle and Combat Rifle internally (the two missing archetypes). Within the assault rifle class the four weapon types will break down as follows: Assault Rifle (Hybrid - Plasma) - short range Combat Rifle (Projectile - Autocannon) - short-mid range Scrambler Rifle (Laser - Pulse) - mid range Rail Rifle (Hybrid - Railgun) - long range Keep in mind though that long range for an assault rifle is not equivalent to long range for a sniper rifle, so while they will adhere to existing category definitions don't expect massive differences in the distances between these weapons A lot of the original assault rifle variants (Breach, Burst, Tactical) were created to fill the gaps these newer weapons will fill and so mightGÇÖve felt out of place (not to mention we just plain made mistakes with some of them). The scrambler rifleGÇÖs optimal range will be increased and weGÇÖll be releasing an iteration of the Tactical Assault Rifle with a smaller clip and much wider hip-fire spread making it less effective in CQC. If that change alone does not prove enough we will walk the damage of the TAR down slowly. No big, sweeping changes this time. I have a question about the bolded part: So when the remaining two do release, will the two relevant Assault variants be removed? I would also like to know the answer to this
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 4036	Posted - 2013.05.28 05:27:00 - [9] - Quote Ecshon Autorez wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: They won't be removed, no, but they will be tweaked slightly. The idea being that each race will have it's base variant be Assault, (Gallente) Burst (Minmatar), Breach (Caldari) or Tactical (Amarr) and then the variants are a specific race's take on the others using their own tech. So, you'd get an Assault Rail Rifle that attempts to somewhat mimic the behavior of the Gallente Assault Rifle and a Tactical Assault Rifle that attempts to mimic the Amarr Scrambler Rifle and so on. So would each races standard version be the (arguably) most effective for that niche? (ie: Amarr Tactical > Gallente Tactical, Minmatar Burst > Caldari Burst) The Amarr version of the tactical (scrambler rifle) is already here, and it pales in comparison to the Gallente tac rifle at the moment. I really hope the answer will be yes though after the rebalancing of the Gallente tac rifle and the scrambler, the racial versions of the variants need to be better than the existing AR versions.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 4037	Posted - 2013.05.28 05:37:00 - [10] - Quote @ CCP Remnant: Any plans to lower the maximum rate of fire for the tactical nd scrambler rifle? The current ones aren't humanly possible without a modded controller.