DUST Search - Request] Remove free LAV's and AV grenades

alten hilt wrote:

I imagine that it has something to do with the paper-rock-scissors-lizard-spock mentality of Dust. While it sucks losing an expensive loadout, there needs to be a legitimate counter to that playstyle, other than another expensive loadout of the same type. IMHO, every playstyle should have at least two other playstyles it is stong against, and two that it is weak against.

And someone with prototype AV grenades has invested a lot of SP, just like anyone else fielding a prototype weapon system. Grenades have a weakness; you have to get really close to use them. Unlike forge guns and swarm launchers, which allow you to attack at range. If you play in prototype gear, then know that there are counters to your playstyle, and that there are counters to the counters. Have an AV loadout and support your squad.

I'm not an HAV pilot, but, Tanks have always been weak when not supported by infantry. Modern anti-tank infantry have numerous man portable systems that can disable or destroy lone tanks. So, recognize that you are weak without infantry support and adapt. paper-rock-scissors-lizard-spock!

It is all part of the balance.


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Coleman Gray GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 289	Posted - 2013.05.23 15:52:00 - [1] - Quote Free LAV's as I'm sure most people will now agree, the Veterans more than the new guys probably but the ability to get a free suit loadout as well as a free LAV is unfair to older players because now their being abused, I'm a tank driver and its annoying for me to watch people get killed despite the Proto their wearing by a car hitting them that cost the driver nothing when Proto fits are looking to be 200,00 isk+. AV Grenades I feel should be removed or nerfed to make full AV roles more Viable. At the moment People can skill up into grenades for Locus and Flux to carry with their AR weapons ect. However with AV grenades doing such high damage, Their proving a better choice than actual AV weapons. The Proto Type breach forge gun deals 2772 on a direct hit, require you to stand still while aiming, meaning a tank or LAV or Dropship can get to safety since you can't move to chase them and it takes 6 seconds to charge up a shot. The Breach Forge gun is meant to be the TRUE AV weapon, rivaling even tank railguns yet Proto packed AV grenades deal 4000 damage. I understand the arguement of having to get close to use them, but unless the tank isn't the fight, Grenades are always in range. Also, who here who uses Proto Grenades have thought it wasn't worth the risk to get that litte bit closer while in cover to the tank to deal 12,000 damage one your own to it in the time it takes a Breach Forge to charge up. From what I seen the main arguement for keeping AV grenades has been that people are abusing the free LAV's, By getting rid of free LAV's, if people want transport or to run people over they either have to spend points into vehicles themselves and pay isk or know someone who has done. Also with the removal of AV grenades, Swarm launcher, forge gun and plasma weapon users would become more needed.
Coleman Gray GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 291	Posted - 2013.05.23 16:30:00 - [2] - Quote NextDark Slougher wrote: stop complaining about lavs .. they are super easy to kill and great warpoints for the team. Your right, we should all just go free stuff from now on
Coleman Gray GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 291	Posted - 2013.05.23 16:32:00 - [3] - Quote The DEFECANDO wrote: I agree. The grenades detract from the benefit of suiting an AV role. Tanks need to be buffed ALOTin terms of HP. . . . . and the militia LAV's are getting annoying. Make them cost something. I don't feel tanks need any buff really, their fine I feel, Just AV grenades just seem too powerful as they are.
Coleman Gray GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 292	Posted - 2013.05.23 17:23:00 - [4] - Quote alten hilt wrote: I imagine that it has something to do with the paper-rock-scissors-lizard-spock mentality of Dust. While it sucks losing an expensive loadout, there needs to be a legitimate counter to that playstyle, other than another expensive loadout of the same type. IMHO, every playstyle should have at least two other playstyles it is stong against, and two that it is weak against. And someone with prototype AV grenades has invested a lot of SP, just like anyone else fielding a prototype weapon system. Grenades have a weakness; you have to get really close to use them. Unlike forge guns and swarm launchers, which allow you to attack at range. If you play in prototype gear, then know that there are counters to your playstyle, and that there are counters to the counters. Have an AV loadout and support your squad. I'm not an HAV pilot, but, Tanks have always been weak when not supported by infantry. Modern anti-tank infantry have numerous man portable systems that can disable or destroy lone tanks. So, recognize that you are weak without infantry support and adapt. paper-rock-scissors-lizard-spock! It is all part of the balance. The problem is Proto AV grenades are simply a better choice for AV than anything else, they do more damage, are more accurate and much cheaper and do not take up a weapon slot.
Coleman Gray GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 292	Posted - 2013.05.23 17:45:00 - [5] - Quote Rachoi wrote: AV grenades are rather high risk, low pay out if you look at it. proper tanks dont fear them, and they are only useful as supporting the damage done by Swarms, and Forge guns. as for the MLT LAV..... drop it's health, that's about all i can say about it, because of the murder taxi driving around side note.... AV grenades are useful for blowing up free LAVs average proto it for suits is 200,000 isk round about. A tank fitting your looking at 1 mill isk area. Lai Dai Packed grenades cost 23,610 and deal 4k damage each. so on average it takes 2 grenades to kill a tank. Unless you heavily use damage reduction which if you go all out you may manage to get a window of 50% dmg reduction. so their only dealing 2k damage instead, so 6k damage per person against a fully activated tank. So only ever at most takes two people to carry them to kill a tank. You can throw them over cover ect so the tank can't even shoot you. and by the time you notice the first one hitting you, the second one less than a second after kills you. It's low risk High reward I'll think you'll find. lets put aside WP ect earned from it and lets think about the effort and isk put in. A tanker will never get profit from a match he's lost his tank in,it takes like 3 games on average to make up for a tank loss. You lose a dropsuit fitting, your still in profit. Swarm launchers and Forge gunners have to risk being shot at to aim, Grenadiers can run behind a box and toss a grenade from safety and deal more damage.