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Winsaucerer
The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION
119
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Posted - 2013.05.22 02:09:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hi,
Currently, indisputably, pricing for AUR and other packages for Dust 514 are significantly overpriced for Australian and New Zealand customers. While some aspects of this price gouging are no doubt beyond CCP's control, I am interested to know what CCP is able to do to protect us. Here is a quote of most of my opening post on the topic:
Quote:I want to make a couple of suggestions here, and I thought a new thread was warranted to discuss possible solutions. It really is rubbish price gouging, and certainly leaves me thinking very seriously about any purchases.
What I want to know from CCP is -- what can you do about it? I get that Sony sets the prices, not you, but you are not without power. Here are a couple of options, and I am wondering if they are within your power to protect your customers: 1. Alternative purchase method -- can you make these various items available for purchase via your own Dust 514 website, and directly credit those items to our character? You seem to have this facility already, such as for the suits given with the fanfest HD purchase. 2. Offer more in the pack -- since we're being charged 50% more, can you give those AU and NZ players 50% more goods with their purchase than the similarly named US packs? Perhaps you could boost the AUR + boosters in the packs to represent the intended value?
The Australian dollar is very close to parity with the US dollar, yet we pay 50% more. That's not an insignificant markup. This is the kind of thing that your chosen partner, Sony, does. Is the excuse taxes? Higher minimum wage? Bandwidth costs? Something else? Your company has managed to sell EVE Online as a digital good and service for years to Australians without needing to do these things. I don't believe for a second that there is any excuse from Sony other than "because we can".
What can you do to court and protect an important group of your players, customers, and community?
And then I made this follow up post which I think covers important aspects regarding financial implications for CCP:
Quote:As in my original post, I offered two possible ways that CCP could resolve this issue, on the assumption that it is not within their power to request Sony fix its prices. If it turns out Sony can request Sony fix its prices, then great! That's the perfect solution. But if not, let's focus on what CCP can do.
After all, CCP likes us, and we like CCP -- so I would like to see what our friend CCP can do to fix this problem.
And on a related note, CCP should care about this for financial reasons too. Presumably CCP has chosen the prices it did, because it thinks these are the sorts of prices that will maximise their profits -- that is, the right balance between cost per purchase, and projected number of purchases. It seems pretty clear from this thread that by charging us up to 50% more they are NOT striking that balance, and are in fact upsetting and angering potential paying customers.
Add to this the evidence (is it true? I haven't checked) that Australia has a high piracy rate, and it's pretty clear that overcharging us isn't going to increase revenue. As for me, if some company has the balls to try and overcharge me, then in almost every case they just won't get my money. I'll either pay the normal price through alternative means, or I won't buy their product at all. Dust, I've made an exception, because I love the EVE universe, but I can guarantee you that I will be purchasing much less than I would if they charged the normal price. I considered treating my Dust character like a normal subscription. Set aside roughly that amount a month, and that's my contribution. But I won't be doing that with these prices. I'll get my character to a point, and then just enjoy the free game. Conclusion? Lost revenue for CCP.
After all, an equivalent "subscription" (dual boosters) for a Dust character works out to roughly the price of about two EVE accounts for me.
Please take the time to broach this with CCP and see what CCP can do. If it turns out that the pricing on Sony's store is beyond CCP's control, this does not entail that CCP has no alternatives to protect its AU and NZ customers. |
Winsaucerer
The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION
119
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Posted - 2013.05.22 13:27:00 -
[2] - Quote
Nova Knife wrote:Thread has been appropriately pimped and people are being poked accordingly.
Hopefully there will be a devpost as a result but we haven't heard anything back yet. Will keep you posted.
Very glad to know that someone is paying attention and trying to poke the right people (in the right places, too, would be nice!). |
Winsaucerer
The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION
119
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Posted - 2013.05.25 14:24:00 -
[3] - Quote
As a way of bumping this thread with value, here's the reasoning I go through when considering whether or not to buy the elite pack for $148 AUD, which is roughly $143 USD (since I like to play with numbers).
Let us suppose (as I have done a quick estimate) that the non-Aurum items are worth 260,000 AUR themselves. This means that the actual 200k AUR you receive is worth 40% of the value of the elite pack, or $57 USD (for Australians -- $40 USD for those who Sony doesn't give the finger to).
For 180k AUR -- $51 USD -- I can for a short time get 5 Omega boosters, which give +100% passive skillpoints. At a bonus of 24k SP per day, over the course of the 5 months, that's a grand total of 3.6 mil SP's for (rounded off) $50 USD.
The price for this same SP boost is $35 USD for American players.
And again, there's no taxation issue or anything like that. For some reason, 1 USD != 1 USD.
Although the Omega booster option will expire shortly, so we'll be down to 1.8 mil Sp's for $50. |
Winsaucerer
The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION
123
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Posted - 2013.06.06 01:02:00 -
[4] - Quote
Any word on this? |
Winsaucerer
The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION
124
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Posted - 2013.06.09 02:04:00 -
[5] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote: However and most unfortunately Sony is responsible for price adjustment and international transactions involving multiple country zone purchases and thus set the adjusted prices based on taxes, tariffs, laws, and culture(which I think takes the largest of the blame). This has been always unfair to the AU, but then again Eve Online is not free to download in Germany either.
Thanks for the update. This is not, however, news to us. We know Sony is overcharging us, just because they can. And we suspected (which you now confirm) that CCP doesn't have a hand in overcharging us.
So the question is more along the lines of "What can CCP do to help us?", rather than "Why is there this price discrepancy?". And I see you hint at this in your message, but I just wanted to make it clear.
In the OP I offered these as two options, but with some creativity there may be more:
Quote:1. Alternative purchase method -- can you make these various items available for purchase via your own Dust 514 website, and directly credit those items to our character? You seem to have this facility already, such as for the suits given with the fanfest HD purchase. 2. Offer more in the pack -- since we're being charged 50% more, can you give those AU and NZ players 50% more goods with their purchase than the similarly named US packs? Perhaps you could boost the AUR + boosters in the packs to represent the intended value?
Neither of these rely on the difficult task of changing the unethical and insulting business practices of Sony. I think I'm getting sufficiently annoyed at the whole situation that I'm going to stick with what has always been my policy in the past -- if a company dares to overcharge Australians, then I will dare to not open my wallet for them at that price. If no alternative purchase method is available at the more reasonable price, they just won't get anything from me. Unfortunately, that means lost income for CCP as well. But that's just part of the problem with CCP choosing Sony as its sole partner, and not (yet?) offering alternatives. |
Winsaucerer
The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION
124
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Posted - 2013.06.09 02:12:00 -
[6] - Quote
And I just noticed that if someone is interested in Dust 514, and wants to find out how much the various things are going to cost them, and type into google (without quotations) "dust 514 australia price" -- this thread shows up first. That is not going to be good press. I would like Dust 514 to succeed, obviously, so I don't want to see this damaging its growth. |
Winsaucerer
The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION
124
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Posted - 2013.06.09 04:42:00 -
[7] - Quote
While I would be quite happy with option 1, I suspect option 2 would actually be easier. It wouldn't run afoul of any exclusivity deals (and I suspect CCP has not handed over eternal exclusivity to Sony), and requires less work for CCP. That is, they just tell Sony, "Here's some AU/NZ only products, and here's the price we are charging", but in such a way that it works out to be a good deal.
Edit: assuming Sony has the ability to offer AU/NZ only products. |
Winsaucerer
The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION
124
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Posted - 2013.06.09 23:24:00 -
[8] - Quote
castba wrote: For this reason, I only ever use my US account. Screw the AU store, their inflated prices and limited content.
Too late for me, as I already made my character on the Australian PSN. Unless there is a way to transfer?
On the plus side, my wife will be happier that I'm not going to spend any more money on Dust! |
Winsaucerer
The Southern Legion
177
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Posted - 2013.08.02 03:52:00 -
[9] - Quote
This thread is not forgotten! Any word? |
Winsaucerer
The Southern Legion
178
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Posted - 2013.08.02 04:13:00 -
[10] - Quote
In the meantime, just in case there was any doubt that this is anything other than greed,"A federal parliamentary committee has recommended that consumers find ways to lawfully evade technology that allows IT companies to charge up to twice as much for their products in Australia."
Some snippets:
Quote:The Committee found Australians paid 42 per cent more, on average, for Adobe software such as Photoshop.
Microsoft products were 66 per cent more on average, while specialised 3D animation software was more than 50 per cent more expensive.
In addition, hardware, music, games and e-books all cost more in Australia than they do in places such as the United States.
Microsoft, Apple and Adobe each gave evidence to the committee as to why their goods were more expensive in Australia than other markets, but declined to comment on the committee's findings.
Quote:The committee's chairman, Nick Champion, said geo-blocking was unfair when used to segregate global markets in order to make bigger profits, and pointed to "significant impacts" on Australian consumers and businesses.
Quote:Just getting three of the tech industry's heavyweights to the parliamentary inquiry was a feat in itself. Adobe, Apple and Microsoft were all invited to attend the inquiry's earlier public hearings voluntarily. In the end it took a summons to compel the companies to appear. Each had a different reason to explain the pricing disparities.
And in the link is a link to 10 recommendations, which include:
Quote:Recommendation 5 The Committee recommends that the Australian Government amend the Copyright ActGÇÖs section 10(1) anti-circumvention provisions to clarify and secure consumersGÇÖ rights to circumvent technological protection measures that control geographic market segmentation.
Recommendation 9 The Committee recommends that the Australian Government consider enacting a ban on geoblocking as an option of last resort, should persistent market failure exist in spite of the changes to the Competition and Consumer Act and the Copyright Act recommended in this report.
Recommendation 10 That the Australian Government investigate the feasibility of amending the Competition and Consumer Act so that contracts or terms of service which seek to enforce geoblocking are considered void.
Now, I ask you: if a company has the gall to charge me more purely because I'm from a different country, why should I give them any respect? I can tell you that I will give them no respect, and that will translate into money lost. Is this really the sort of behaviour that CCP wants to be complicit with? |
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Winsaucerer
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
200
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Posted - 2013.09.07 02:45:00 -
[11] - Quote
Just reminding that this is not forgotten. Things may be quieter, but my active boosters ran out some time ago, and passive's will run out in a bit over a month. Won't be buying any more if this isn't fixed. |
Winsaucerer
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
203
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Posted - 2013.09.16 10:33:00 -
[12] - Quote
dustwaffle wrote:TBH I don't really think this is CCP's fault. Blame tariff laws, taxes etc.
As a consultant, the issue of digital goods costing more in Australia etc. often pops up at work, and while companies shoulder some of the blame, the anti-tax evasion laws in Australia are also to blame.
Companies like CCP and Valve and many others are able to sell us software at the same prices. What do they know that Sony, Adobe, and others don't know?
Edit: when they sell us a digital game, my AUD converted to USD is as good as anyone else's. They don't need to pay Australia anything. |
Winsaucerer
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
221
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Posted - 2013.10.14 23:30:00 -
[13] - Quote
Brokerib wrote:Bumpity bump.
Additions to the Oceanic packs to make up for additional cost sounds like a reasonable compromise, and should be possible considering that Sony has decoupled the various markets so they can get away with charging us 50% more...
Please consider CCP, I purchased the Merc pack to support Dust, but I can't justify any additional purchases with the current setup.
My active boosters ran out a while ago, and my passives will expire in a few days. Won't be getting any new stuff before this is fixed. |
Winsaucerer
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
224
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Posted - 2013.10.30 03:43:00 -
[14] - Quote
Beld Errmon wrote:Now that the Aussie dollar is dropping below parity with the US dollar you can rest assured that sony will increase the price to make up the short fall, and like many Australians I'll be sure to continue pirating the F out of everything sony.
Yep. Any company that does this to Australians deserves no respect. Although, even though we have fallen below parity, it's been sitting fairly stable. Doesn't look like it's going to go lower.
Would be nice of CCP to actually respond to this, and take some steps towards implementing one of the suggested solutions (or an unsuggested solution). |
Winsaucerer
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
226
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Posted - 2013.11.22 23:25:00 -
[15] - Quote
Still waiting for a response/resolution. |
Winsaucerer
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
226
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Posted - 2013.11.23 14:33:00 -
[16] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Sorry I keep poking every so often and response is the same, CCP does seem rather limited by the laws of the lands. I think it be better to poke Sony instead.
Thanks Iron Wolf, I appreciate you continuing to poke them. I won't forget this issue, because I have closed my wallet as a result of it.
As for being limited by the laws of the lands, I don't actually know what you mean. It's not any Australian law causing an issue here, it's Sony. Could you explain what you (or CCP) means by "limited by the laws of the lands"?
And I am inclined to agree that it's better to poke Sony (and maybe recommend that until then Australian's take Beld's approach). However, it's not better for me to poke Sony. It's better for CCP to poke Sony. Or to do one of the other options I suggested in the opening post.
In other words, CCP needs to do something here. It's far more effective for me to lobby CCP who can in turn talk to people at Sony that might actually listen -- or implement one of my alternative suggestions -- than for me to spend many hours on Sony support phone line, only to talk to some lower level guy who is never going to get his message passed on to the directors who make these decisions.
So I shall continue to poke here :) |
Winsaucerer
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
226
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Posted - 2013.11.24 01:43:00 -
[17] - Quote
Vrain Matari wrote: Another big effect on pricing will be taxes, duties, tarriffs - sometimes peeps in particular regions get hit with double whammy taxes.
Something that has been mentioned a few times in this thread and the thread I linked to in my OP. But don't let that stop you repeating the same mistaken point others have tried to make.
As for what the market is willing to pay in Australia -- I think there is very good evidence to suggest that sellers of digital goods have failed to hit that sweet spot in the Australian market. Australia has one of the highest piracy rates. I wonder if overcharging us for products might have something to do with that? |
Winsaucerer
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
245
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Posted - 2014.02.07 14:41:00 -
[18] - Quote
Not forgotten. I haven't checked in a while. Have prices been fixed? |
Winsaucerer
The Southern Legion League of Infamy
263
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Posted - 2014.04.23 00:35:00 -
[19] - Quote
Still thinking of you. |
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