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cy6
Raging Pack of Homos
12
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 06:39:00 -
[1] - Quote
Is there a possibility to change the Scrambler Rifle Operation skill from 5% charge up speed to 5% reduction of heat build up? This seems more logical since A) not all scrambler rifles have a charge feature and B) the overheating creates a huge disadvantage against assault rifles since they can spray endlessly OR fire single shots without overheating.
What do you guys think? |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
349
|
Posted - 2013.05.24 03:04:00 -
[2] - Quote
cy6 wrote:Is there a possibility to change the Scrambler Rifle Operation skill from 5% charge up speed to 5% reduction of heat build up? This seems more logical since A) not all scrambler rifles have a charge feature and B) the overheating creates a huge disadvantage against assault rifles since they can spray endlessly OR fire single shots without overheating.
What do you guys think?
I support it... made a thread about it as well. |
XV1
Challenger 4
14
|
Posted - 2013.05.24 03:07:00 -
[3] - Quote
I like this idea better than current skill especially since some scramblers do not charge. |
medomai grey
Fenrir's Wolves RUST415
10
|
Posted - 2013.05.24 03:43:00 -
[4] - Quote
I do not support this. The harsh heat build up is the balancing factor for the scrambler rifle. If you want to reduce heat build up of your scrambler rifle, skill into Amar assault suits. Any more skills that reduce the heat build up on the scrambler rifle will push it into OP territory. Further more the heat build up on the assault variant is negligible.
Scrambler rifles are one of the most rewarding but difficult weapons to use in the game. If you can't manage the heat build up, go skill into assault rifles; you don't have to manage any heat with those.
Having spoken my mind about my favorite in game weapon... please don't stone me :P |
BuTtHuRtPEepZ
Raging Pack of Homos
12
|
Posted - 2013.05.24 03:49:00 -
[5] - Quote
medomai grey wrote:I do not support this. The harsh heat build up is the balancing factor for the scrambler rifle. If you want to reduce heat build up of your scrambler rifle, skill into Amar assault suits. Any more skills that reduce the heat build up on the scrambler rifle will push it into OP territory. Further more the heat build up on the assault variant is negligible.
Scrambler rifles are one of the most rewarding but difficult weapons to use in the game. If you can't manage the heat build up, go skill into assault rifles; you don't have to manage any heat with those.
Having spoken my mind about my favorite in game weapon... please don't stone me :P
while that may be true, going up against a TAC it will mostly be at a disadvantage since the TAC can spam with no punish whereas the SCR will heat up and burn you. I would be okay with the heat up if TAR had a ROF cap but it does not so in a 1v1 its unbalanced. reduced heat build up will just make SCR on par with TAR |
medomai grey
Fenrir's Wolves RUST415
10
|
Posted - 2013.05.24 03:58:00 -
[6] - Quote
BuTtHuRtPEepZ wrote:while that may be true, going up against a TAC it will mostly be at a disadvantage since the TAC can spam with no punish whereas the SCR will heat up and burn you. I would be okay with the heat up if TAR had a ROF cap but it does not so in a 1v1 its unbalanced. reduced heat build up will just make SCR on par with TAR
Fair enough. I've been in that situation a lot. So the issue at hand isn't that the scrambler rifle needs a buff, but the tactical assault rifle needs some adjusting. We don't need two overpowered weapons.
I just hope that CCP does not touch my scrambler rifle. It's one of the few things in game that actually feels balanced. |
BuTtHuRtPEepZ
Raging Pack of Homos
12
|
Posted - 2013.05.24 04:07:00 -
[7] - Quote
medomai grey wrote:BuTtHuRtPEepZ wrote:while that may be true, going up against a TAC it will mostly be at a disadvantage since the TAC can spam with no punish whereas the SCR will heat up and burn you. I would be okay with the heat up if TAR had a ROF cap but it does not so in a 1v1 its unbalanced. reduced heat build up will just make SCR on par with TAR Fair enough. I've been in that situation a lot. So the issue at hand isn't that the scrambler rifle needs a buff, but the tactical assault rifle needs some adjusting. We don't need two overpowered weapons. I just hope that CCP does not touch my scrambler rifle. It's one of the few things in game that actually feels balanced.
Im not saying the make the heat build up invisible. like you should still be penalized for firing your whole clip! however one shouldnt be overheating with merely 8 shots either. If anything, increase the range so its further than the TAC so charged shots count. |
medomai grey
Fenrir's Wolves RUST415
10
|
Posted - 2013.05.24 04:34:00 -
[8] - Quote
BuTtHuRtPEepZ wrote:Im not saying the make the heat build up invisible. like you should still be penalized for firing your whole clip! however one shouldnt be overheating with merely 8 shots either. If anything, increase the range so its further than the TAC so charged shots count.
Considering that I can instantaneously drop most medium and light suits with a scrambler rifle if my aim is good, the punishing heat build up is justified.
I will however agree with you on the matter of range. It seems odd that a laser through atmosphere would deteriorate faster than plasma. |
Talos Alomar
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
811
|
Posted - 2013.05.24 06:02:00 -
[9] - Quote
medomai grey wrote:I do not support this. The harsh heat build up is the balancing factor for the scrambler rifle. If you want to reduce heat build up of your scrambler rifle, skill into Amar assault suits. Any more skills that reduce the heat build up on the scrambler rifle will push it into OP territory. Further more the heat build up on the assault variant is negligible.
Scrambler rifles are one of the most rewarding but difficult weapons to use in the game. If you can't manage the heat build up, go skill into assault rifles; you don't have to manage any heat with those.
Having spoken my mind about my favorite in game weapon... please don't stone me :P
I'm with you, for the most part anyway.
My complaint about the SCR operations skill is that I have never once thought "man, I wish this thing would charge faster".
my suggestion would be slow the charge time slightly while adding either more damage, or possibly the charge shot deals more damage to headshots, letting a fully charged scrambler deal 2x to a head shot rather than just the same old 1.5x most other weapons get. We should want the bonuses a skill grants, not just the items it unlocks.
this would also tie it in with the scrambler pistol a bit better.
As far as getting the assault to benefit from the skill, it could be changed to a charge only functionality.
It will still be fully auto, but it will have to charge before the first shot and in between every other shot so points in the SCR operation skill will effectively increase the ROF and by proxy DPS.
This also adds the bonus of making the Assault SCR not feel like just another AR. If I wanted to use the AR I would have specced into it. |
Belendur Balfour
Silver Gryphons Inc DARKSTAR ARMY
12
|
Posted - 2013.05.24 07:19:00 -
[10] - Quote
I would agree that the scram operations skill should work with all variants. What about a 5% reduction to the time the weapon is overheated? That would be nice for both variants, and more usefull than the current 5% reduction in charge time. |
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EXASTRA INVICTAS
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
20
|
Posted - 2013.05.24 08:10:00 -
[11] - Quote
How about a 5% reduction per level in damage taken from overheating, instead? It incites people to train into Amarr to use the weapon and also reduces the drawbacks of overheating the rifle, without making the overheat factor almost non-existent. It may not seem like much but it does make someone skilled into Scramblers and Amarr Assault suits a very potent weapon. |
Kelrie Nae'bre
not in a corporation
18
|
Posted - 2013.05.25 06:14:00 -
[12] - Quote
EXASTRA INVICTAS wrote:How about a 5% reduction per level in damage taken from overheating, instead? It incites people to train into Amarr to use the weapon and also reduces the drawbacks of overheating the rifle, without making the overheat factor almost non-existent. It may not seem like much but it does make someone skilled into Scramblers and Amarr Assault suits a very potent weapon.
I'd prefer heat build-up reduction. The issue with damage reduction from overheat is it's basically bonus for people that can't fire their weapon properly. A max (25%) reduction at proto would only be 12 less damage, which is a worthless difference really. What's my reward for becomes a "MASTER" of Scramblers? Well, when I overheat my weapon like an idiot that's never used the rifle before, I get burned 12 less damage.. less than a militia shield extender. Still burned though.
No. That would be horrible, insulting, and asinine.
Heat build-up reduction (as per OP) is more sensible, as charge is completely worthless to people using assault, and the charge is already extremely short.
Even with a 25% reduction to heat build-up, you wouldn't be able to empty your clip like an AR, or fire off volleys after charge shots. |
Cinaed Corvus
Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.25 16:56:00 -
[13] - Quote
As has been suggested by other people there should be a couple of changes done to the SCR and ASCR.
Here are some of them:
Scrambler operation skill - instead of the reduction in charge time, which only the scrambler rifle has, not the assault scram-rifle, there should be something that is specific to the rifle while also encouraging players to fully skill into the weapon because what the operation skill has to offer; i.e., have the operation skill increase the optimal range (kind of stretch it) at a rate of 5% per level, after adding in a much needed 15% buff to the maximum range of the both the rifles for the sake of EVE lore.
This would change the stats in this way: (THIS IS TAKING FROM KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf) Imperial Scrambler Rifle Maximum range: 87 ---> 100 (with a possibility of looking at a 20% buff to the maximum range which would equate to 104.4 m) Effective range: 1-48 ---> could max out at 60 m
Carthum Assault Scrambler Rifle
|
Cinaed Corvus
Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.25 17:55:00 -
[14] - Quote
BuTtHuRtPEepZ wrote:medomai grey wrote:I do not support this. The harsh heat build up is the balancing factor for the scrambler rifle. If you want to reduce heat build up of your scrambler rifle, skill into Amar assault suits. Any more skills that reduce the heat build up on the scrambler rifle will push it into OP territory. Further more the heat build up on the assault variant is negligible.
Scrambler rifles are one of the most rewarding but difficult weapons to use in the game. If you can't manage the heat build up, go skill into assault rifles; you don't have to manage any heat with those.
Having spoken my mind about my favorite in game weapon... please don't stone me :P while that may be true, going up against a TAC it will mostly be at a disadvantage since the TAC can spam with no punish whereas the SCR will heat up and burn you. I would be okay with the heat up if TAR had a ROF cap but it does not so in a 1v1 its unbalanced. reduced heat build up will just make SCR on par with TAR
The weapon shouldn't get additional reduction in heat build up. That is one of the balancing factors. If you want that on the ASCR or SCR, then skill into Amarr assault. What needs to be done with the ASCR and SCR is to bring it back into line with the established differences and mechanics of both the existing shipped based examples of our weapons and the racial lore of EVE.
I do agree to the fact that the TacAR needs a hard cap on the ROF and maybe a buff to the kick of the weapon when hip firing.
I believe the suggestion that I have posted and the number behind it would go to balancing the weapons between each other while making the engagements between the two more about the skill of the player and how they have decided to skill their character. |
Cinaed Corvus
Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.25 18:21:00 -
[15] - Quote
Here are some comparisons between the available ranges of both the blasters and the pulse lasers.
Pulse lasers have better range than blasters, hybrid weapon from the same class, but do considerably less damage. Anyway, pulse lasers are in favor among skilled pilots because they provide good damage/range ratio. By contrast with beam turrets, pulses fire rapidly several times in a cycle.
Beam lasers have a shorter optimal range than their hybrid railgun counterparts, but do, as a whole, more damage. Advanced coolant technologies allow beam lasers to keep firing for a long time without overheating. The heaviest lasers, battleship-class tachyon beam lasers, are regarded by many as brutally devastating sniper weapons (although their range is limited) and are often used in fleet sieges.
Tech I energy turret comparison Name SizeActivationRangeRate of fireDamage modTracking speedSignature res. Gatling Pulse LaserSmall1.82 GJ4,000+500 m2.10 s1.5x0.308125 rad/sec40 m Dual Light Pulse LaserSmall2.67 GJ4,500+1,500 m2.70 s2x0.27375 rad/sec40 m Medium Pulse LaserSmall4.44 GJ5,000+2,000 m3.50 s3x0.24625 rad/sec40 m Dual Light Beam LaserSmall3.89 GJ8,750+3,000 m3.20 s2x0.13 rad/sec40 m Medium Beam LaserSmall7.22 GJ10,000+4,000 m4.00 s3x0.1 rad/sec40 m Focused Medium Pulse LaserMedium8 GJ9,000+3,000 m4.05 s2x0.09 rad/sec125 m Heavy Pulse LaserMedium13.33 GJ10,000+4,000 m5.25 s3x0.08125 rad/sec125 m Quad Light Beam LaserMedium5.45 GJ8,000+1,000 m3.15 s1.5x0.081 rad/sec125 m Focused Medium Beam LaserMedium11.67 GJ17,000+6,000 m4.80 s2x0.042 rad/sec125 m Heavy Beam LaserMedium21.67 GJ20,000+8,000 m6.00 s3x0.033 rad/sec125 m Dual Heavy Pulse LaserLarge25 GJ18,000+6,000 m6.08 s2x0.0375 rad/sec400 m Mega Pulse LaserLarge40 GJ20,000+8,000 m7.88 s3x0.03375 rad/sec400 m Dual Heavy Beam LaserLarge35 GJ35,000+12,000 m7.20 s2x0.0175 rad/sec400 m Mega Beam LaserLarge65 GJ40,000+16,000 m9.00 s3x0.0153125 rad/sec400 m Tachyon Beam LaserLarge95 GJ44,000+20,000 m12.50 s4.5x0.0139205 rad/sec400 m Dual Giga Pulse LaserExtra large320 GJ32,000+5,000 m11.81 s8x0.0040512 rad/sec1000 m Dual Giga Beam LaserExtra large520 GJ72,000+22,000 m13.50 s5.5x0.002296875 rad/sec1000 m
Blasters are an extremely short range, highly destructive weapon system. Blasters possess high tracking speeds, short cycle times, and high volley damage, and as a result are one of the most powerful weapons available.
Blasters consume ammunition quickly, though this is mitigated by high capacity magazines. With their very short effective range, a Microwarpdrive or Afterburner is mandatory for combat, lest pilots rely on their superior range to deny blaster equipped ships a chance to land a hit.
Tech I Hybrid Turret Comparison Name Size Activation Range Rate of fire Damage mod Tracking speed Signature res. Light Electron Blaster I Small 0.938 GJ 1,000+1,500 m 2 s 1.75x 0.365 rad/sec 40 m Light Ion Blaster I Small 1.561 GJ 1,250+2,000 m 3 s 2.8125 x 0.336 rad/sec 40 m Light Neutron Blaster I Small 2.023 GJ 1,500+2,500 m 4 s 3.5 x 0.3165 rad/sec 40 m 75mm Gatling Rail I Small 1.67 GJ 6,000+3,000 m 3 s 1.5 x 0.13 rad/sec 40 m 125mm Railgun I Small 2.15 GJ 9,000+5,000 m 3 s 2 x 0.085 rad/sec 40 m 150mm Railgun I Small 3.34 GJ 12,000+6,000 m 4 s 2.75 x 0.07 rad/sec 40 m Heavy Electron Blaster I Medium 2.8 GJ 2,000+3,000 m 3 s 1.75 x 0.12 rad/sec 125 m Heavy Ion Blaster I Medium 4.669 GJ 2,500+4,000 m 5 s 2.8125 x 0.11 rad/sec 125 m Heavy Neutron Blaster I Medium 6.069 GJ 3,000+5,000 m 5 s 3.5 x 0.1 rad/sec 125 m Dual 150mm Railgun I Medium 5 GJ 12,000+6,000 m 4 s 1.5 x 0.042 rad/sec 125 m 200mm Railgun I Medium 6.45 GJ 18,000+10,000 m 5 s 2 x 0.028 rad/sec 125 m 250mm Railgun I Medium 10 GJ 24,000+12,000 m 6 s 2.75 x 0.023 rad/sec 125 m Electron Blaster Cannon I Large 8.4 GJ 4,000+6,000 m 5 s 1.75 x 0.05 rad/sec 400 m Ion Blaster Cannon I Large 14 GJ 5,000+8,000 m 7 s 2.8125 x 0.046 rad/sec 400 m Neutron Blaster Cannon I Large 18.2 GJ 6,000+10,000 m 8 s 3.5 x 0.0433 rad/sec 400 m Dual 250mm Railgun I Large 15 GJ 24,000+12,000 m 6 s 1.5 x 0.0175 rad/sec 400 m 350mm Railgun I Large 22 GJ 36,000+20,000 m 7 s 2 x 0.01167 rad/sec 400 m 425mm Railgun I Large 30 GJ 48,000+24,000 m 10 s 2.75 x 0.009625 rad/sec 400 m
By looking at the charts above, the range discrepancy between blasters and pulse laser is immense (4 to 1 on maximum range with a shorter optimal for the pulse lasers with the blasters having shorter range with a stretched optimal) So if one was to align themselves with the existing models given to us by CCP in EVE through their turret designs, then even my suggestions would only marginally bring the weapons into balance with the lore, BUT would balance them out on the battle field for DUST. Granted the stats above also take into consideration things such as tracking speed and the effective range, which is something that is not applicable to DUST, but I think the point is well illustrated. |
EXASTRA INVICTAS
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
35
|
Posted - 2013.05.25 18:25:00 -
[16] - Quote
Cinaed, I would recommend sticking to the T2 of the individual levels per weapon to avoid the giant wall of (somewhat) useless information. Using the T2 for Electron, Ion, and Neutron Blasters is enough. Same with the Pulse lasers. But yes, my opinion is that of lasers should indeed be getting better range than Gallente Plasma Tech. It should not be getting better range than the Caldari equipment once it rolls out, however.
At the same time, you should be comparing the Pulse Laser (Scrambler Rifle) to the Blasters (Shotguns) and not the ARs. ARs are a sort of middle ground, rounding out the Gallente plasma tech and giving us a (slightly) longer range option for engaging. |
Cinaed Corvus
Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.25 18:35:00 -
[17] - Quote
EXASTRA INVICTAS wrote:Cinaed, I would recommend sticking to the T2 of the individual levels per weapon to avoid the giant wall of (somewhat) useless information. Using the T2 for Electron, Ion, and Neutron Blasters is enough. Same with the Pulse lasers. But yes, my opinion is that of lasers should indeed be getting better range than Gallente Plasma Tech. It should not be getting better range than the Caldari equipment once it rolls out, however.
At the same time, you should be comparing the Pulse Laser (Scrambler Rifle) to the Blasters (Shotguns) and not the ARs. ARs are a sort of middle ground, rounding out the Gallente plasma tech and giving us a (slightly) longer range option for engaging.
Appreciate the input and with your assertion I completely agree. The Caldari gauss rifle/rail gun and the Amarr lasers should be the kings of range. NOT the Gallente Blaster tech based TacAR. |
Kazeno Rannaa
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
175
|
Posted - 2013.05.26 07:44:00 -
[18] - Quote
What would be nice on this thread is a bit of Dev input and those from the CPM. ANYONE HERE??? |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
378
|
Posted - 2013.05.26 08:03:00 -
[19] - Quote
I don't know about a range increasing skill. I think the optimum range for a pulse-laser should be higher than a blaster, but that seems like it would be a lot more unbalancing as a passive than something like heat-build up reduction (which is a pretty balanced change, given the current Amarr example).
I'd say to correct the ranges and passives, and balance from there.
ARs besides being plasma require practically nothing in light weapon op to unlock (at rank 1), and give the player a variety of weapons that have short high damage options (Breach), mid range, and super-long range options (Tac AR). So, they've basically made blasters/plasma weaponry the most versatile, flexible, and damaging weapons in the game. It's not even remotely balanced at the moment. It seems like the TAR belongs more in a rail rifle category that doesn't exist yet (and wouldn't or shouldn't have the fire rate it does if it did).
So, on the topic at hand, heat-build-up reduction seems like the safest change balance-wise. Heat reduction shouldn't be restricted to Amarr Assaults as a group anyhow, that's very limiting. It's one thing if they're the best at it, it's another if they're the only ones who can get it.
The range on pulse should be longer than blasters as well - I'm not sure if 4 to 1 like EVE is practical, but it definitely shouldn't be crappier like it is now.
On that note, the scrambler pistol should probably have better range than it does as well, but I guess that one's less likely to get love. |
Kazeno Rannaa
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
176
|
Posted - 2013.05.26 08:12:00 -
[20] - Quote
Zeylon Rho wrote:I don't know about a range increasing skill. I think the optimum range for a pulse-laser should be higher than a blaster, but that seems like it would be a lot more unbalancing as a passive than something like heat-build up reduction (which is a pretty balanced change, given the current Amarr example).
I'd say to correct the ranges and passives, and balance from there.
ARs besides being plasma require practically nothing in light weapon op to unlock (at rank 1), and give the player a variety of weapons that have short high damage options (Breach), mid range, and super-long range options (Tac AR). So, they've basically made blasters/plasma weaponry the most versatile, flexible, and damaging weapons in the game. It's not even remotely balanced at the moment. It seems like the TAR belongs more in a rail rifle category that doesn't exist yet (and wouldn't or shouldn't have the fire rate it does if it did).
So, on the topic at hand, heat-build-up reduction seems like the safest change balance-wise. Heat reduction shouldn't be restricted to Amarr Assaults as a group anyhow, that's very limiting. It's one thing if they're the best at it, it's another if they're the only ones who can get it.
The range on pulse should be longer than blasters as well - I'm not sure if 4 to 1 like EVE is practical, but it definitely shouldn't be crappier like it is now.
On that note, the scrambler pistol should probably have better range than it does as well, but I guess that one's less likely to get love.
I see the point you bring up, yet I find the passive heat build up for both the ASCR/SCR and the Laser rifle doesn't make any sense at this point, at least not to me and not with the myriad threads that have brought up no other reason than "its a fricking laser, man!". I am still partial to the idea presented by Cinaed because of how it encourages people to fully skill into weapons to really be able to enjoy the true value each piece can bring to the battlefield. I find that since CCP started with ****-poor range on a laser and then nerfed the crap out of the beam laser rifle, the combination and the thinking behind Cinaed's proposal just makes way more sense. |
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Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
400
|
Posted - 2013.05.27 13:20:00 -
[21] - Quote
Kazeno Rannaa wrote:Zeylon Rho wrote:I don't know about a range increasing skill. I think the optimum range for a pulse-laser should be higher than a blaster, but that seems like it would be a lot more unbalancing as a passive than something like heat-build up reduction (which is a pretty balanced change, given the current Amarr example).
I'd say to correct the ranges and passives, and balance from there.
ARs besides being plasma require practically nothing in light weapon op to unlock (at rank 1), and give the player a variety of weapons that have short high damage options (Breach), mid range, and super-long range options (Tac AR). So, they've basically made blasters/plasma weaponry the most versatile, flexible, and damaging weapons in the game. It's not even remotely balanced at the moment. It seems like the TAR belongs more in a rail rifle category that doesn't exist yet (and wouldn't or shouldn't have the fire rate it does if it did).
So, on the topic at hand, heat-build-up reduction seems like the safest change balance-wise. Heat reduction shouldn't be restricted to Amarr Assaults as a group anyhow, that's very limiting. It's one thing if they're the best at it, it's another if they're the only ones who can get it.
The range on pulse should be longer than blasters as well - I'm not sure if 4 to 1 like EVE is practical, but it definitely shouldn't be crappier like it is now.
On that note, the scrambler pistol should probably have better range than it does as well, but I guess that one's less likely to get love. I see the point you bring up, yet I find the passive heat build up for both the ASCR/SCR and the Laser rifle doesn't make any sense at this point, at least not to me and not with the myriad threads that have brought up no other reason than "its a fricking laser, man!". I am still partial to the idea presented by Cinaed because of how it encourages people to fully skill into weapons to really be able to enjoy the true value each piece can bring to the battlefield. I find that since CCP started with ****-poor range on a laser and then nerfed the crap out of the beam laser rifle, the combination and the thinking behind Cinaed's proposal just makes way more sense.
The passive heat build is supposed to be a trade-off for the strengths of the weapon (mind you, I still think a heat-reduction passive makes the most sense for the weapon skill). However, it doesn't make sense at the moment because the direct competition outstrips it in every conceivable way (dispersion, range, fire-rate, etc.). So, a TAR can outrange a laser... but also outdamage it.... and it doesn't overheat. That's problematic. I can see what you're saying - drawbacks make less sense when a weapon is already underpowered in comparison to the competition.
|
Kazeno Rannaa
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
181
|
Posted - 2013.05.27 16:30:00 -
[22] - Quote
Zeylon Rho wrote:Kazeno Rannaa wrote:Zeylon Rho wrote:I don't know about a range increasing skill. I think the optimum range for a pulse-laser should be higher than a blaster, but that seems like it would be a lot more unbalancing as a passive than something like heat-build up reduction (which is a pretty balanced change, given the current Amarr example).
I'd say to correct the ranges and passives, and balance from there.
ARs besides being plasma require practically nothing in light weapon op to unlock (at rank 1), and give the player a variety of weapons that have short high damage options (Breach), mid range, and super-long range options (Tac AR). So, they've basically made blasters/plasma weaponry the most versatile, flexible, and damaging weapons in the game. It's not even remotely balanced at the moment. It seems like the TAR belongs more in a rail rifle category that doesn't exist yet (and wouldn't or shouldn't have the fire rate it does if it did).
So, on the topic at hand, heat-build-up reduction seems like the safest change balance-wise. Heat reduction shouldn't be restricted to Amarr Assaults as a group anyhow, that's very limiting. It's one thing if they're the best at it, it's another if they're the only ones who can get it.
The range on pulse should be longer than blasters as well - I'm not sure if 4 to 1 like EVE is practical, but it definitely shouldn't be crappier like it is now.
On that note, the scrambler pistol should probably have better range than it does as well, but I guess that one's less likely to get love. I see the point you bring up, yet I find the passive heat build up for both the ASCR/SCR and the Laser rifle doesn't make any sense at this point, at least not to me and not with the myriad threads that have brought up no other reason than "its a fricking laser, man!". I am still partial to the idea presented by Cinaed because of how it encourages people to fully skill into weapons to really be able to enjoy the true value each piece can bring to the battlefield. I find that since CCP started with ****-poor range on a laser and then nerfed the crap out of the beam laser rifle, the combination and the thinking behind Cinaed's proposal just makes way more sense. The passive heat build is supposed to be a trade-off for the strengths of the weapon (mind you, I still think a heat-reduction passive makes the most sense for the weapon skill). However, it doesn't make sense at the moment because the direct competition outstrips it in every conceivable way (dispersion, range, fire-rate, etc.). So, a TAR can outrange a laser... but also outdamage it.... and it doesn't overheat. That's problematic. I can see what you're saying - drawbacks make less sense when a weapon is already underpowered in comparison to the competition.
Exactly. I would like to see other suggestions for the passive skill besides ours. It seems that most people just want the TacAR to be OP a d those that have felt the fury of the current incarnation of the scrambler rifle are very afraid of what it will become (and very honestly should be in the first place) if the adjustment is made to it. And I think the range issue should be made along with a change in the passive skill. |
BuTtHuRtPEepZ
Raging Pack of Homos
17
|
Posted - 2013.05.27 16:35:00 -
[23] - Quote
edit: ignore this post |
BuTtHuRtPEepZ
Raging Pack of Homos
17
|
Posted - 2013.05.27 16:36:00 -
[24] - Quote
Kazeno Rannaa wrote:Zeylon Rho wrote:Kazeno Rannaa wrote:Zeylon Rho wrote:I don't know about a range increasing skill. I think the optimum range for a pulse-laser should be higher than a blaster, but that seems like it would be a lot more unbalancing as a passive than something like heat-build up reduction (which is a pretty balanced change, given the current Amarr example).
I'd say to correct the ranges and passives, and balance from there.
ARs besides being plasma require practically nothing in light weapon op to unlock (at rank 1), and give the player a variety of weapons that have short high damage options (Breach), mid range, and super-long range options (Tac AR). So, they've basically made blasters/plasma weaponry the most versatile, flexible, and damaging weapons in the game. It's not even remotely balanced at the moment. It seems like the TAR belongs more in a rail rifle category that doesn't exist yet (and wouldn't or shouldn't have the fire rate it does if it did).
So, on the topic at hand, heat-build-up reduction seems like the safest change balance-wise. Heat reduction shouldn't be restricted to Amarr Assaults as a group anyhow, that's very limiting. It's one thing if they're the best at it, it's another if they're the only ones who can get it.
The range on pulse should be longer than blasters as well - I'm not sure if 4 to 1 like EVE is practical, but it definitely shouldn't be crappier like it is now.
On that note, the scrambler pistol should probably have better range than it does as well, but I guess that one's less likely to get love. I see the point you bring up, yet I find the passive heat build up for both the ASCR/SCR and the Laser rifle doesn't make any sense at this point, at least not to me and not with the myriad threads that have brought up no other reason than "its a fricking laser, man!". I am still partial to the idea presented by Cinaed because of how it encourages people to fully skill into weapons to really be able to enjoy the true value each piece can bring to the battlefield. I find that since CCP started with ****-poor range on a laser and then nerfed the crap out of the beam laser rifle, the combination and the thinking behind Cinaed's proposal just makes way more sense. The passive heat build is supposed to be a trade-off for the strengths of the weapon (mind you, I still think a heat-reduction passive makes the most sense for the weapon skill). However, it doesn't make sense at the moment because the direct competition outstrips it in every conceivable way (dispersion, range, fire-rate, etc.). So, a TAR can outrange a laser... but also outdamage it.... and it doesn't overheat. That's problematic. I can see what you're saying - drawbacks make less sense when a weapon is already underpowered in comparison to the competition. Exactly. I would like to see other suggestions for the passive skill besides ours. It seems that most people just want the TacAR to be OP a d those that have felt the fury of the current incarnation of the scrambler rifle are very afraid of what it will become (and very honestly should be in the first place) if the adjustment is made to it. And I think the range issue should be made along with a change in the passive skill.
I got It. How about, instead of "5% to heat build up reduction", go for "5% scrambler rifle cooldown speed after overheating" ? This way the build balances the weapon, yet the skill reduces the time it takes to get back into battle? similar to the lazer rifle |
Kazeno Rannaa
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
184
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 14:40:00 -
[25] - Quote
BuTtHuRtPEepZ wrote:Kazeno Rannaa wrote:Zeylon Rho wrote:Kazeno Rannaa wrote:Zeylon Rho wrote:I don't know about a range increasing skill. I think the optimum range for a pulse-laser should be higher than a blaster, but that seems like it would be a lot more unbalancing as a passive than something like heat-build up reduction (which is a pretty balanced change, given the current Amarr example).
I'd say to correct the ranges and passives, and balance from there.
ARs besides being plasma require practically nothing in light weapon op to unlock (at rank 1), and give the player a variety of weapons that have short high damage options (Breach), mid range, and super-long range options (Tac AR). So, they've basically made blasters/plasma weaponry the most versatile, flexible, and damaging weapons in the game. It's not even remotely balanced at the moment. It seems like the TAR belongs more in a rail rifle category that doesn't exist yet (and wouldn't or shouldn't have the fire rate it does if it did).
So, on the topic at hand, heat-build-up reduction seems like the safest change balance-wise. Heat reduction shouldn't be restricted to Amarr Assaults as a group anyhow, that's very limiting. It's one thing if they're the best at it, it's another if they're the only ones who can get it.
The range on pulse should be longer than blasters as well - I'm not sure if 4 to 1 like EVE is practical, but it definitely shouldn't be crappier like it is now.
On that note, the scrambler pistol should probably have better range than it does as well, but I guess that one's less likely to get love. I see the point you bring up, yet I find the passive heat build up for both the ASCR/SCR and the Laser rifle doesn't make any sense at this point, at least not to me and not with the myriad threads that have brought up no other reason than "its a fricking laser, man!". I am still partial to the idea presented by Cinaed because of how it encourages people to fully skill into weapons to really be able to enjoy the true value each piece can bring to the battlefield. I find that since CCP started with ****-poor range on a laser and then nerfed the crap out of the beam laser rifle, the combination and the thinking behind Cinaed's proposal just makes way more sense. The passive heat build is supposed to be a trade-off for the strengths of the weapon (mind you, I still think a heat-reduction passive makes the most sense for the weapon skill). However, it doesn't make sense at the moment because the direct competition outstrips it in every conceivable way (dispersion, range, fire-rate, etc.). So, a TAR can outrange a laser... but also outdamage it.... and it doesn't overheat. That's problematic. I can see what you're saying - drawbacks make less sense when a weapon is already underpowered in comparison to the competition. Exactly. I would like to see other suggestions for the passive skill besides ours. It seems that most people just want the TacAR to be OP a d those that have felt the fury of the current incarnation of the scrambler rifle are very afraid of what it will become (and very honestly should be in the first place) if the adjustment is made to it. And I think the range issue should be made along with a change in the passive skill. I got It. How about, instead of "5% to heat build up reduction", go for "5% scrambler rifle cooldown speed after overheating" ? This way the build balances the weapon, yet the skill reduces the time it takes to get back into battle? similar to the lazer rifle
I think that is a fair recommendation. Thanks. I need to ponder that after finding this piece from a corporate
"Sergeant Wiznowski wrote: CCP Rampart
We'll be making some adjustments to the rifle ranges in the near future. We're currently testing the Rail Rifle and Combat Rifle internally (the two missing archetypes). Within the assault rifle class the four weapon types will break down as follows:
Assault Rifle (Hybrid - Plasma) - short range Combat Rifle (Projectile - Autocannon) - short-mid range Scrambler Rifle (Laser - Pulse) - mid range Rail Rifle (Hybrid - Railgun) - long range
Keep in mind though that long range for an assault rifle is not equivalent to long range for a sniper rifle, so while they will adhere to existing category definitions don't expect massive differences in the distances between these weapons A lot of the original assault rifle variants (Breach, Burst, Tactical) were created to fill the gaps these newer weapons will fill and so mightGÇÖve felt out of place (not to mention we just plain made mistakes with some of them). The scrambler rifleGÇÖs optimal range will be increased and weGÇÖll be releasing an iteration of the Tactical Assault Rifle with a smaller clip and much wider hip-fire spread making it less effective in CQC. If that change alone does not prove enough we will walk the damage of the TAR down slowly. No big, sweeping changes this time. "
I need to find the total post to have more perspective.
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Kazeno Rannaa
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
184
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 14:43:00 -
[26] - Quote
Found it here |
cy6
Raging Pack of Homos
31
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 03:13:00 -
[27] - Quote
After playing with a scrambler rifle operations at lv3 and then respecing, i noticed a significant difference between lv1 and lv 3. I have been finding myself needing the faster charge time much more often than i thought. |
Meeko Fent
Mercenary incorperated
24
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 13:56:00 -
[28] - Quote
If the TAR is supposed to be for the CRR (Caldari Rail Rifle) Then Somebody needs to balance them both. The Rail Rifle Need to preform like a Shorter range Sniper, Not a Long Range SCR with no drawbacks. Slow the ROF of the RR, and the TAR since they both are Kinda being placeholders for the other
Oh yeah, and as More and More Weapons that the AR variant were standing in for, DELETE THEM. Or at least severely hamper there usage so people use the New weapon More then the Old. This game will exist Forever in Perpetual Beta until all the Gear Is put in to fill in the Racial Holes and the Weapon types we don't have. |
Kazeno Rannaa
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
184
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 14:50:00 -
[29] - Quote
Meeko Fent wrote:If the TAR is supposed to be for the CRR (Caldari Rail Rifle) Then Somebody needs to balance them both. The Rail Rifle Need to preform like a Shorter range Sniper, Not a Long Range SCR with no drawbacks. Slow the ROF of the RR, and the TAR since they both are Kinda being placeholders for the other
Oh yeah, and as More and More Weapons that the AR variant were standing in for, DELETE THEM. Or at least severely hamper there usage so people use the New weapon More then the Old. This game will exist Forever in Perpetual Beta until all the Gear Is put in to fill in the Racial Holes and the Weapon types we don't have.
I completely agree. I don't know why CCP decided to call this a release since the basic racial variants of all the weapon classes (i.e., Heavy, light, sidearm, knife, LAV, HAV, and Dropship) are yet to be released. I can see doing without the racial variants for the time being on the MCC and such, but these other things? NAH, not a release just an over glorified beta still.
The thing is, with all of this balancing going on, it can not be done properly without the basics racial variants.
But this is just my 0.02 ISK. Nothing more, besides maybe a bit of common sense, which seems to be in short supply in the commonality of it.
I would also like to see racial variants of grenades maybe some time in the future along with the PvE aspects. |
Mahal Daj
Delta Enterprise
0
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 12:40:00 -
[30] - Quote
I have really come to appreciate the versatility of the scrambler rifle. I agree with the points:
It's power is balanced by the overheat. It's a nuanced weapon with advantages outside what the skill tree indicates The charge up is plenty fast, I don't want other people going all megaman X on me. The reload should be used while cooling in the right situations
To add my thoughts to the skill, I think the weapon should have a VERY long range, but the damage should heavily factor with range. A few potshots will scratch a shield across the map, while a charge shot at 25 meters will, well, do what it does now.
-daj |
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Harpyja
DUST University Ivy League
177
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 12:46:00 -
[31] - Quote
Makes no sense why every other weapon gets a passive skill that affects every single weapon variant, but the SR passive skill does nothing for at least one variant. |
darkiller240
INGLORIOUS-INQUISITION
25
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 13:10:00 -
[32] - Quote
+1 |
Talos Alomar
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
1089
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 13:19:00 -
[33] - Quote
cy6 wrote:After playing with a scrambler rifle operations at lv3 and then respecing, i noticed a significant difference between lv1 and lv 3. I have been finding myself needing the faster charge time much more often than i thought.
+1. Faster charge is absolutely essential to using the basic SCR.
I've been using the AssSCR to back up my LR on my LOLmando fit. (and oddly enough going positive. Compact nanohives are a really good idea so you can heal yourself, though.)
It works just fine with no bonus. I'm cool with that. |
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