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Removal Of Weapon Variants

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Bojo The Mighty Bojo's School of the Trades 1154	Posted - 2013.05.21 04:20:00 - [1] - Quote Quote: * Weapon tiers streamlined so that more side grades are unlocked in the advanced tier and more exotic variants in the prototype tier I don't quite see the rationale behind this: You've removed the Burst Rifle...why? Why has the Assault Mass Driver been moved up to level 4? Same goes for Specialist shotgun and TAR. I was in a squad with a tanker and Large Accelerated missile turrets only exist in Standard and Proto, he said. I don't even want to glance at the scrambler pistols now, I used all the variants..... I really liked the versatility that existed among weapons but now it seems that in order to support your Niche, you must delve into that weapon to the Prototype or Advanced levels just to get a handle on them. I suggest bringing back weapon variations to their former glory and then some. I was expecting to see more weapons and variations, not less. Also, define "exotic variants". One man's garbage is another man's treasure, so why was my beloved Burst Assault Rifle removed and my once go-to now-OP TAR moved up to ADV-PRO only? It's a limitation that I would like to see removed, I think that the market should be a sea of items, so that our battles can be a hodgepodge jumbalaya of unique mercenaries.
Bojo The Mighty Bojo's School of the Trades 1156	Posted - 2013.05.21 04:57:00 - [2] - Quote Chunky Munkey wrote: If it's a niche, it should take a heavier investement to widen your options. Yeah that's what Level 2 and Level 4 are for: Unlocking the niche weapons (same with proficiency) But it doesn't make sense that Level unlocks less variants, it was perfectly fine in chromosome. Also, this causes a problem: Niche do not have cheaper counterparts, now if you want to actively play your role, you have to shell out unnecessary ISK for a level higher than you may want. Niche Weapons are not OP but why ze nerf?!
Bojo The Mighty Bojo's School of the Trades 1160	Posted - 2013.05.22 03:27:00 - [3] - Quote Chunky Munkey wrote: If everybody had easy access to it, it wouldn't be a niche. Niche 101 WTF? Niche I'm thinking you don't understand the concept of niche
Bojo The Mighty Bojo's School of the Trades 1160	Posted - 2013.05.22 04:04:00 - [4] - Quote Cass Barr wrote: Talos Alomar wrote: I'd rather have more weapons than more weapon variants. This So Burst Mass Driver is no go?
Bojo The Mighty Bojo's School of the Trades 1160	Posted - 2013.05.22 04:22:00 - [5] - Quote Talos Alomar wrote: Bojo The Mighty wrote: Cass Barr wrote: Talos Alomar wrote: I'd rather have more weapons than more weapon variants. This So Burst Mass Driver is no go? I'd support that only if it had a bunch or arc and was used like artillery. burst mass driver sounds freaking sweet though. I would like to see more weapons as well but at the same time more weapon variants, I prize both (new weapons slightly more). But there are a whole bunch of roles that restoring/adding variants can do: Burst Mass Driver Assault Shotgun Burst Sniper Rifle Tactical SMG Breach Swarm Launcher etc. I also hope for more variants than just the current 5 Breach Assault Tactical Specialist Burst
Bojo The Mighty Bojo's School of the Trades 1163	Posted - 2013.05.22 05:08:00 - [6] - Quote ladwar wrote: Burst Mass Driver-I don't understand how this will work and have balance. Assault Shotgun-not sure if I would like this added just doesn't seem to fit for lore/balancing Burst Sniper Rifle- not sure why you want this or why this should be added Tactical SMG- I thought all the SMG were the tactical variants, but no.. that breaks the sidearm code Breach Swarm Launcher- ok this is just mean to vehicles, stop it and would only work if it add an even longer lock on with an even lower RoF so im going to say naw. shotgun niche role snipers niche role ^ just a few they removed the lower tiers to add more sp sinks for people that liked those niches. oh btw the advanced accelerated missile (large) is missing and there were two at201 missile launchers one being the accelerated one it must of just got lost in the move Ok thanks for that missile clarification: However do not take me literally when I am asking for those weapon variants, I'm merely throwing out things to consider. I would like to see all variants for all weapons, but I'm not saying NOW NOW NOW. There is always a way to balance a weapon variant, look at the Chromosome Scrambler Pistols for inspiration: The breach did not suck at all, the Assault kicked ass but had a drawback, Burst was absolute fun and worked right. Same goes for shotguns. The niche roles are supported by a certain weapon, yes, but even in that, it branches out. The AR is a mid-range weapon that supports the Frontline fighter niche. The Breach AR is built more in favor for closer range frontline offensive. You can have deviations of a weapon to continue to support any niche, no matter how specific or general.
Bojo The Mighty Bojo's School of the Trades 1167	Posted - 2013.05.22 14:21:00 - [7] - Quote Chunky Munkey wrote: Bojo The Mighty wrote: Incorrect. Everybody has access to it. It's a niche because it has a specific non-generic/non-utility purpose. Meaning not everyone will/can use it. No reason for it to be more expensive SP/ISK-wise. Again, "asinine nonsense". Strawman argument. Try again. First of all, you quoted that wrong. Debate fail. Secondly, would you be so kind as to elaborate on why a weapon that supports a further specialized role aka Niche Weapon, has to be an ISK sink? You can't really figure out on paper what weapon & variant suits your specialized role (I'm just going to keep using specialized role so no one ends up confused) you have to use the weapon. Well as it is, if you have SP in the sniper, and want more damage, you have skill all the way up to charge which is now at proto level, only to find that it's like a forge gun. That was a big waste of SP, because on paper, the gun isn't what it seems. Provide a valid point on why it must be an SP sink? Niche and specialized roles don't have anything to do with expenses. If I want to try Ice Cream, I don't have to start at Vanilla and work my way up. I can buy whatever flavor I want at any given moment. I don't need to get advanced Ice cream to taste sherbert, but why do I need advanced shotguns to get specialist?
Bojo The Mighty Bojo's School of the Trades 1167	Posted - 2013.05.22 19:56:00 - [8] - Quote Chunky Munkey wrote: You're arguments are no longer coherent. There is no point continuing this. Part 1 is true, part 2 is not. The fact of the matter is that removing weapon variants and making gaps between meta levels of gaining access to said variants is detrimental to the specialization game. Some specializations now require less SP than others to gain access to their niche weapon. That is unfair, foolish, and simplifying. It is a step towards a one-class order of things and is making the game less fun. There is no reason to make SP sinks for a specialization. Shields last build used to be more expensive to Specialize into, but when compared to armor, there was no reason for a larger sink. On top of this you have yet to provide a valid point as to why removing variants is good, why SP sink is good, and why niche have to be expensive.
Bojo The Mighty Bojo's School of the Trades 1167	Posted - 2013.05.22 20:48:00 - [9] - Quote Chunky Munkey wrote: Missing the point of specialisation once again. Specializing is supposed to be easier than a master of all trades but this goes against that. CCP stated in the demo that the skill system is supposed to promote specialization because it is the path of least resistance. Specialization is the dedication to a certain role, but some people want, no require, a weapon variant to fulfill their role. That is me, I need my Burst rifle back but apparently it was swiped off the earth. What weapon can replace it? None Quit being Mr. Recluse and let your cards hit the table. You state that you are some omniscient debater but no argument for removing weapon variations has been made from you let alone you have yet to define your definition of specialization.
Bojo The Mighty Bojo's School of the Trades 1170	Posted - 2013.05.23 03:13:00 - [10] - Quote Ok I found out Burst Rifle was not removed but was moved up to be exotic or some crap like that. I glanced over it, bad eyes.

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