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Bubba Brown
Militaires Sans Jeux
59
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Posted - 2013.05.20 09:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
considering how cavernous the skill tree is, and how new players would like to try one of everything, doesn't it make sense to let them re-spend all their points once they get out of the battle academy queue?
don't get me wrong, the battle academy is an ABSOLUTELY fantastic idea, but having the capability of learning all these various things, and then getting to apply it after you move up to the real game just makes sense to me. |
Bubba Brown
Militaires Sans Jeux
79
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Posted - 2013.05.20 21:30:00 -
[2] - Quote
jenza aranda wrote:im sorry, but i have to disagree, i dont like anything that gets the playerbase used to the idea of a respec,its a bad in my opinion
it's easy to make it very clear that this is they ONE AND ONLY RESPEC EVER. and again it'll make them very carefully spend their points during this reset period. if they got used to the idea of a respec they'd just slap points anywhere.
aside from putting it in a text box, it'd need to be in a voiceover as well "Congratulations recruit, you have successfully completed training and may go into battles with much more powerful foes" "as a reward, your clone's skill memories are being wiped but your neural structure remains intact" "this process is only possible once, during your earliest times of training" "when you spend these skill points again, it will be permanent, there is no second re-specialization" "choose wisely, merc" |
Bubba Brown
Militaires Sans Jeux
79
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Posted - 2013.05.20 21:31:00 -
[3] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:You get out of the battle academy too fast for it to matter anyways. Plus, if a new player doesn't know how to spend their SP in those first few days, what makes you think they'll do better afterwords? Without proper tutorials and new player training, it would be 100% useless. I'm with Jenza on this, no more respecs (even if it meant I was stuck in failships )
veterans making alt get out of the battle academy really fast because they get tons of warpoints really fast. so we usually leave after 10-15 battles. but that's perfect, it gets us experienced people out of the stomping grounds as fast as possible.
most new players are in there for 30-40 and get close to 2mil sp
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Bubba Brown
Militaires Sans Jeux
80
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Posted - 2013.05.20 21:36:00 -
[4] - Quote
pegasis prime wrote:I like this idea . I would follow it with posibly an introduction video before they enter they accadamy explaining that this is the time to experament with wepons and suits as they wont get another chance to respec after graduating.
ah, this is actually a fantastic idea. encouraging skill experimentation is CRITICAL to increasing skill diversity and keeping people interested. they'll keep on playing wondering "oh man that plasma cannon looks neat, i wonder what it does?" and then next game having that question answered
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Bubba Brown
Militaires Sans Jeux
83
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Posted - 2013.05.20 22:06:00 -
[5] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:-1
No, that is not a typo. That is a negative in front of the one.
New Eden, the very universe in which Dust 514 players are entering, is a very unforgiving place. It is so harsh that every mistake you make, whether it is informed or uninformed, is stuck with you until the day you delete your character or until the servers shutdown permanently (whichever comes first... usually the deleting part does).
New Eden is also home to some of the toughest players in the galaxy: Eve Online players who are otherwise known as Capsuleers. When a new Capsuleer is born, they are given only a miniscule amount of SP to start which is about 900,000 SP with only 50,000 ISK in their wallet alone with a single rookie ship fitted with a civilian turret and a civilian mining laser plus one unit of tritanium worth only about 5 ISK a piece depending on the current market. From there, the players are given a series of tutorials to help them decide what their future can be while still giving them the option to cross train into other skill sets. There are no respecs given for skill points. The only respec that player gets is for attributes which allows the player to decide which skills get trained faster and which skills take longer to train as a consequence and that option only comes once a year (again, SP is never reallocated). Only a part of their SP gets reimbursed back to them whenever CCP makes changes to the skill tree that is considered extensive and even then the amount refunded to them is minor at best compared to the 50 million SP the average Eve player has.
But still, overall the new players are never given a single respec. They are forced to live the mistakes of their choices in Eve Online. It has been like this for 10 years and so far there has only been one, I say again, ONE respec in its entire existence.
Dust 514 is operating under the rules of New Eden which are as follows:
1. Adapt or Die 2. Don't use what you cannot afford to lose. 3. Accept the permanent consequences of your choices and move on.
They're are also the core principles of New Eden. They are as relevant to Eve and Dust as the Holy Bible is to a devout Christian and Catholic. Messing with these core principles or basic rules is like trying to mess with the natural order of things. The outcome will not be pretty.
If you are not willing to accept the consequences of your choices, whether your decisions were ill-informed or well-informed, then you have only two choices. Harden up or get the hell out of New Eden.
Welcome to New Eden. The harshest and most brutal universe in the history of MMO and FPSs.
i'm noticing a lot of people reading the bullet points off the back of the eve box, so to speak.. have you.....ever actually played eve? |
Bubba Brown
Militaires Sans Jeux
83
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Posted - 2013.05.20 22:25:00 -
[6] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:
No. My reasons are clear enough as it is.
EDIT:
Except for the 100,000 WP part. 10,000 WP is too little of a requirement to graduate.
you are also ignoring another aspect; DUST is not EVE, they are very different no matter what CCP or sony advertisers want you do believe. they share elements but are extremely different games.
and yet another problem; changes in dust (in most FPSs really) happen very fast. in eve you get major balance updates maybe twice or three times in an entire year, it's an incredibly slow moving game and there's plenty of warning to upcoming changes so people can switch tracks for SP training. also the game is extremely well upderstood in all its aspects by at least some people, so there's a entrenched set of builds and ships.
dust doesn't have that, and won't for a while at least (aside from "shields and tac ar") and it'd be bad to allow that in an FPS game.
and YET ANOTHER problem is that the dust and eve playerbase are COMPLETELY different. i'm not saying hold their hand, i'm saying to give them a good "transition period" between CoD and this insanity. The battle academy does this VERY well. a skill respect will be the final "lesson" of the battle academy; careful skill planning, which might be the most important lesson of the game
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Bubba Brown
Militaires Sans Jeux
85
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Posted - 2013.05.20 23:13:00 -
[7] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:@Bubba
It doesn't matter anymore whether or not Eve and Dust are different. They are still operating under the same rules as I mentioned above and those rules don't care if you are a PC MMO player or a console FPS player.
let me reorient your argument a little bit; "It doesn't matter anymore whether or not Warcraft 3 and World of Warcraft are different. They are still operating under the same rules as I mentioned above and those rules don't care if you are an RTS player or an MMO." this is essentially what you're saying, that apples and oranges are the same and should be held to identical standard, when in reality they're completely different.
having a similar skill and module system to eve online is great because it meshes well with an FPS. Same thing with the standard "loose" corporations of eve allowing for backstabbery and all that fun stuff, as well as the open market. the trouble comes when you start trying to force TOO much eve into an fps, at the detriment to the fps and its players. in the fps market (at least the part of it CCP wants), it's important to generate an informed, calculating playerbase. Most will be turned away immediately by the complexity of the skill system alone, you don't want to turn away the people willing to put up with it.
also EVE doesn't directly compete with anyone, not in a meaningful sense, they fill a specific niche and don't venture far from it (DUST is the only exception)
Maken Tosch wrote: Any more challengers?
oh....you're just a jackass...that makes a little more sense now |
Bubba Brown
Militaires Sans Jeux
89
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Posted - 2013.05.21 03:44:00 -
[8] - Quote
oh hey, thread got teleported |
Bubba Brown
Militaires Sans Jeux
94
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Posted - 2013.05.22 16:48:00 -
[9] - Quote
might as well give this a bump |
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