Perhaps it has to do with the physical mechanics of the thumbsticks?

While I understand the skill of accurately aiming is not the only factor in a players record, I would like to preface with the fact that I am an above average FPS player who gets above 2.0 K/D in games like Halo and CoD. This serves only to testify that in other FPS games, I can aim perfectly well. I understand there are plenty of players with a much better skill of aiming and I do not intend to brag about my skill. It is relevant to understand that, in Halo, I am capable of headshots every single shot. I have no desire for this game to become Halo-like in any way because I prefer this game. However, what is very apparent is that in Dust 514 my skill with a thumbstick is not applicable. I cannot for the life of me aim in this game, and I think I know why. I have seen plenty better players with seemingly flawless aim and therefore believe this problem surmountable yet still not desired. (This could be M+KB but in my experience M+KB is only marginally better in this game).

Basically what I'm trying to say is that aiming needs a freaking low gear. It is true that the aiming mechanics have a finer movement when the thumbstick is slightly inclined, but this fine movement takes up a very small part of the thumbsticks range of motion. So small that, in the heat of battle, I do not have the motor skills necessary to actuate these fine movements. While I do not possess the ego to blame the game for my failings, it does seem to me that this is unnecessarily restrictive. Correct me if I'm wrong but I've only noticed 2 speeds of which you can make finer movements. The next speed after that is a huge jump. This causes me to spend my time moving my retical from left to right of an enemy in hopes I can release the thumbstick quickly enough. And god help me if I can't strafe to stay accurate with an enemies horizontal movements (aim with my feet).

I'm not familiar with coding, but it seems to me that the aiming acceleration is not a function of the thumbstick input. Instead, it seems the thumbsticks input are cut into steps and a speed value is attributed to each step. If this isn't the case, which I honestly don't believe is, then the function which determines retical/aiming speed is something contrived like GêÜ(GêÜ(GêÜ(3x))) with 1 being the maximum movement value (I forget how to annotate larger index values on radicals :P). This is a ridiculous assumption, but that is exactly what it feels like. It doesn't feel at all like a straight linear function. Not that it needs to be. Since I'm not the expert here I'm not about to proclaim "I have the answers"... nor that I'm even correct. I love this game and how it plays, and I'll keep checking in just to see if this problem is fixed. But until then, I just can't bring myself to keep playing this game and perpetually frustrate myself with this issue.

Thoughts anyone?

Pete B
Posted: 2013.05.21 02:55

TL;DR
What I basically got from that was that this guy can aim well in twitch shooters on consoles, but cannot aim here.

Reason being that its hard to fine aim, and its hard as hell to fine aim in this game given that its nearly impossible to find a good thumbstick acceleration (or sensitivity).

He proposes that there are issues with how the game increments the increase and decrease of sensitivity, and it should be fixed.

David Spd
Posted: 2013.05.21 03:34

I seea lot of people talking about their sensitivity settings and they say "turn it all the way up, it's too slow". I've noticed the gigantic jump in sensitivity, and quite frankly I can't play with anything above 40. If I need faster aiming I continue to fire from ADS into hip and then go back into ADS when I reach where I need.

Kickback becomes problematic when hipfiring into ADS but they're usually either dead, about to be or my mag needs changed so I switch to sidearm and finish them off.

Higher sensitivities it seems like aim-assist actually works against you and makes the reticle slide
off-target. Lower sens it seems to help slow down reticle as you get closer to the target but it's still not very helpful. Aim -assist from the hip will track targets like an aim-bot up to what seems to be ten meters away, but only if you don't fire or touch the joysticks.

Kaylee Veloc
Posted: 2013.05.21 03:53

Udaeus Sol wrote:
Perhaps it has to do with the physical mechanics of the thumbsticks?


Just wondering what you mean by physical mechanics?

If you mean a difference in the internal analog part used there really isn't one aside from maybe how the different chips on the board read the signal but I don't think so imo.

I only ask as I have a little expierience (certainly no expert though) in taking controllers apart. I bought a 3rd party PS3 controller for the reverse analog postitions (basically like a 360 controller) and the deadzones on it were terrible (alot of the 3rd party controllers for PS3 apparently have that issue, cheap parts etc). However I fixed it with a working analog part out of a button broken 360 controller (just happened that it had the same pin layout as the controller that needed replacing and was already dismantled at the time, I could of used a PS3 part but that was extra effort in taking one apart lol).

After I fixed the deadzone issue I was aiming fine (my version of fine at least haha) last build but with uprising there has been a decline in my ability despite changing settings with each "fix".


Short version I have a 360 analog part in my PS3 controller and it makes no difference if that's what you meant.

Great post Udaeus.

This is from a previous thread on aiming(there have been so very many). The link to the original thread is at the bottom.

WHY AIMING GOT BORKED

Or my best guess, at any rate. And really, this is just about the DS3 although parts of it apply to the KB/M agrument also. This whole discussion assumes aim assist is off.

The fundamental critisism of aiming/control mechanics in Chromo was that the controller curve was not a curve but rather three flat lines pasted together(looking something like: \_/ ). The problem with this was that when you pushed right stick over too much aiming became twitchy at the transition from the deadzone to the sloped part of the controller curve. Adjusting deadzone width through the MOVE menu and the slope of the lines through the sensitivity setting in the controller menu helped a lot.

These adjustments made things bearable, and we all got used to it eventually. Problem was, the control mechanics were almost always mentioned in negative reviews of DUST. In Uprising, CCP has taken a serious swing at addressing those complaints. So although many forum warriors are crying out for a reversion to the old aiming/controller mechanics, that would be a bad idea. Uprising's mechanics need to be made to work, and work well. If that can't happen CCP will have to rewrite controller mechanics again.

But let's focus on Uprising's mechanics as they stand.

I believe the only real change CCP made was to add rotation acceleration for mercs. This adds realism but also is supposed to make fine adjustment a lot smoother, and when implemented correctly it does. If CCP got the physics right then the acceleration applies symetrically to speeding up and slowing down. Tbh i have not yet tested whether the deceleration is in effect and implemented properly, will tonight.

But the acceleration/deceleration is not the problem.

The problem is still the controller curve, and the reason most likely is that CCP did not change the curve in any significant way. It still has abrupt transitions, and is probably exactly what we had in Chromo. You can see this transition in your merc quarters or better yet out in the field. Just very slowly push the right thumbstick over and start to rotate - keep going and you'll eventually see the abrupt transition to a higher rotation speed. This is the problem. Because we're pushing the stick over slowly we know that the transition to higher speed rotation is not being caused by acceleration, but rather by the controller curve.

When you compound this abrupt control curve transition with the rotation acceleration, things become very hard to control and predict and presto! - 3 clip gunfights.

Original post: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=782426#post782426

It's been a while since I've played Halo, but I'd like to point out that the aim assist in Halo is extremely better than what we have in DUST and that may also be a contributing factor.

Udaeus Sol, very nice post - thanks!

Your comment has been forwarded to the devs for consideration.