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What exactly is the purpose/point of the HMG?

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Laheon Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 564	Posted - 2013.05.19 16:30:00 - [1] - Quote Heavies aren't meant to be a heavy version of the assault. Heavies are meant to defend a position - they exceed as a defensive role. Set up round a corner and anything coming around that corner is dead. On Manus Peak, I used a heavy to great effect defending point C, despite coming under heavy assault, with bombardment from a railgun installation, too. Most assaults were too cautious to come close, and those that did I ripped to shreds in seconds.
Laheon Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 564	Posted - 2013.05.19 16:42:00 - [2] - Quote SoTa ReGnUM PoP wrote: Heavies were meant to stand toe and toe with tanks if we use your logic. Where the hell is that? Please - stop telling a class how to play. I didn't mention tanks...? I said installation. From halfway across the map. I got behind cover, and despite being in a pretty limited area, managed to defend C for a few minutes. I'll tell a class how to play until people who play that class actually understand that the heavy is a defensive tool. Anyone looking at the slow speed can tell you that. Heavies just can't cross ground quickly enough to get between cover and can't run up quickly enough to apply DPS consistently. Assaults and scouts are much better at assaulting positions than heavies. Heavies simply don't have the speed to assault. Got it yet? CCP has gone on record as saying this is the heavy's role, what it has been designed for.
Laheon Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 564	Posted - 2013.05.19 17:10:00 - [3] - Quote SoTa ReGnUM PoP wrote: ... "My ideal one would be a slow moving tank" Unfortunately, should you be granted the role you want (i.e. slow, but hard to kill) you would be a one man team. Not great for balance, hey? For example, back in closed beta, I remember heavies running around with AR's. That was literally the only thing on the field. This allowed them to "move the front line forward". So much so that the assault was completely replaced. Heavies cannot stand toe to toe with tanks. From dust514.com, "The Heavy dropsuit is a second-generation solution designed to withstand concentrated small arms fire and protect the wearer from the concussive, thermal, and impact forces of low-grade explosives." As far as I know, (apart from TAR's) they do that role quite well. Heavies ARE meant for point defense. Any other role for them would be OP, as they would be walking powerhouses. They're slow on foot, which means that they require assistance getting to the battlefield, but once they get into CQC they excel. Jumping from a dropship into CQC, or spawning at a drop uplink at an objective when its about to be overrun, are ideal solutions for a heavy. Walking up to the front line then punching a hole through it is not. That's best suited for an assault.
Laheon Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 564	Posted - 2013.05.19 17:15:00 - [4] - Quote Kai Wulf wrote: What did you find was best for cover/protection? I tend to find that assaults don't need to come close as they can easily outrange me. I used a building. I think it was Manus Peak, but I can't quite pinpoint where I was. Maybe it was a different map... Think I'm confusing myself here. There was a supply depot, with an L-shaped building covering it from B, and a small gap between that building and another facing A. I stayed on the side with the supply depot, hiding from grenades, AR's and the like. The only way you could see me (as an AR) would be to get into CQC, as in, within five meters.
Laheon Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 564	Posted - 2013.05.19 17:38:00 - [5] - Quote Never said heavies were perfect in their current iteration. Only said that heavies are best used in a defensive role. Heavy machine guns are almost exclusively used, in both modern warfare and in most games, as a defensive tool. For example, WW1. Heavy machine guns were set up to defend trenches, rather than assault the enemy trenches. WW2. Setting up a machine gun took time, even the lighter, support ones. The larger ones (Browning MG) took two men to set up and use. These heavy machine guns take on a different role when mounted on a vehicle. When used by infantry, it's primarily defensive. Not offensive. My understanding of the way things stand currently, is that all weapons are having the hard cap on ranges taken off and having falloff damage applied, when CCP has this system ready. Which is hopefully soon. This gives the HMG more range without dealing the same damage at 5m it would at 50m. I say again... Heavies with HMG's are meant to be used for defense. In the future, their role will also spread to suppression, when above range fix comes into play.
Laheon Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 616	Posted - 2013.05.23 22:28:00 - [6] - Quote Ignatius Crumwald wrote: Please accept my complete nonacceptance of that guy's advice. EVEN CCP SAID YOU COULD PLAY AS A HEAVY MEDIC WELL HOW IN THE FLIPPING FLIP FLIPPER DO I DO THAT LIL JOHNNY NUMB SACK? SPOILERS: You can't. Don't listen to CCP. Retire the heavy. It makes my feelings feel bad. Oh no, your feelings are hurt. Would you like a lolly? If the heavy doesn't suit your playstyle, then don't play it. Simple. The heavy is, and has been, intended for point defense and AV since open beta. Suck it up, get used to it.
Laheon Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 616	Posted - 2013.05.23 22:51:00 - [7] - Quote Lance 2ballzStrong wrote: Since Open Beta? No. Pretty sure they were better in Chromosome than in Uprising. Even then they were lulz in Corp Matches, and they had range then. So they took out range and made heavies slower in Uprising. Actually, they nerfed the HMG dmg by 20%, AND took out sharpshooter. Thanks to allot of heavies speaking up the dev realized he made a mistake with numbers and corrected the dmg nerf. I went off on a tangent there, but just pointing out that heavies weren't confined to this "defensive" role since open beta, you're wrong. This new role has been forced on us in Uprising due to the fact we ONLY have Amarr suit and ONLY have the HMG (FG is AV) You misread. I put the "intended" in there intentionally. They were always meant for a defensive role. @Billy In a defensive situation, you get to control exactly where you fight. The enemy don't. They come to you instead of you going to them. If you're a heavy, you dictate exactly where you meet the assaults. If you're smart, that would be in CQC. Also, when playing defensively, you don't run across 20m of open ground.
Laheon Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 616	Posted - 2013.05.23 23:16:00 - [8] - Quote Lance 2ballzStrong wrote: You're trying to force a class into a specific role...that's not what this game is meant for. Like saying the scout suit is only for sniping in mountains, the assault suit is only for assaulting with AR's, the logi suit is only for healing people. You can't shove a specific role on a class, regardless what CCP says about it. I had a corpmate that made his tank as fast as LAV's just cuz HE COULD. If you think heavies are ONLY for defense then that's a real ignorant outlook to classes. Kay, let's see. High HP, check. Low speed, check. What does that equal? A low mobility heavy weapons platform. That's its description, no? Its anti-personnel main weapon of choice is short range. No one can argue with that. Coupled with the low mobility, this means that it needs the enemy to come to it. Is there any fault with that logic? This automatically means defensive role. I can't see how you can't think that through. I'm not forcing the heavy suit into a role, that IS its role. Give it an AR and it still won't be able to keep up with an assault suit, simply because the assault suit is more mobile, and can trick the heavy user when running around cover (e.g. a shipping container-type thing) to pop round behind him. Sure, you can play your heavy like that, but that's not his best role. Just like a scout's best role is not to take out tanks. Or an assault's best role is not to support the team. It's really quite simple - the heavy's best role, the role it exceeds at, is defensive play. You CAN play it offensively, but you're much better off playing assault for that. You CAN use it to snipe, but it's a waste of the suit. You CAN use it with a shotgun, but it's effectively useless like that. Again, I'm not forcing the suit into a role, I'm simply stating THAT'S WHAT'S IT'S BEST AT.
Laheon Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 616	Posted - 2013.05.23 23:28:00 - [9] - Quote Lance 2ballzStrong wrote: [ So you're saying a tank / HAV is BEST at defense cuz it's slow, has allot of HP and is anti personnel. The majority of tank turrets (currently 2/3 of them) are primarily anti-tank. Blasters are the only real anti-personnel turret, in that they're high ROF and short range. Railguns are primarily anti-tank, due to high range, low ROF, high damage. Missiles... Well, we won't even go there. But in answer to your question, yes, yes it is. Tanks are awful offensively unless supported by a squad, because AV will ambush and take them out easily. When playing offensively without a squad, the tank will need to keep moving, unless it wants to be hit by a lot of concentrated AV. Not good for offensive play, since usually you want to hold the ground you take. Even defensively they need a squad, for the same reason. Frankly, if you can't be bothered coming up with a decent, logical argument to my post, then you have no case.
Laheon Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 616	Posted - 2013.05.23 23:36:00 - [10] - Quote Lance 2ballzStrong wrote: lol My point was tanks have 2 very capable roles, attack and defend, while the Heavy, which you described as being a walking HAV has 1. Now you're just confusing yourself. So where's your logic? You're still forcing the heavy into 1 roll, while the HAV can do both well enough. Again, I'm not forcing the heavy into a role. That IS it's role. I also never said that the heavy was BEST at any particular role, but that the role it's best at is defense, be it AP or AV defense. There's a difference. It's like saying option A is best across the board, scoring 90% in categories 1, 2 and 3, but option B scores best in category 3, with 89%, whereas it scores 50% in the other two. If you want to play heavy, then do so, but don't force it into a role it's not suited to e.g. assault. At the current time, assaults can take the place of the heavy in a defensive role, but that's simply because of the TAR, not because of any fault on the HMG's part. Ignatius Crumwald wrote: Nonsense. Complete nonsense. Like, do you even play this game? A heavy is basically a stationary turret with the health of a dropsuit and a half. There is nowhere that a heavy is the best option. No. Where. It doesn't exist. Read above.

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