DUST Search - PS 4 ?

AndyPandy Puschel wrote:

What was the point than last console generation? At the time Xbox360/PS3 hit the market all your above points are as valid as they are now? U always could get and play the same none exclusive console games on PC, while some PC only games always looked better.

AndyPandy Puschel wrote:

The reason is the same as before: A console is a affordable, low maintenance, easy to use gaming "BOX", that can be used "out of the box" from your couch on the big screen. The new consoles may add TV and Internet capabilities, but this just shortens the gap to a PC.

AndyPandy Puschel wrote:

Sure someone may argue, "But the steambox will change this all", but the SteamBox still comes with linux pre-installed, which given the current Linux games is no alternative to tinker with it and install windows on it, which is by no means a "out of the box" experience u get on consoles.

AndyPandy Puschel wrote:

So u need to ask yourself, why did u care for any console last generation?

AndyPandy Puschel wrote:

On the bright side, see how things unfold from the developer perspective. Mid-size to small PC only developers are now able to get extra profit, by allowing the easy and cheap ports to both consoles. This is huge!
On top of that console developers now have a much easier time to create games for all platforms, since its basically the same architecture without any obscure hardware differences like PS3/SPU or IBM in-order CPU's. Even better console developers have the best conditions ever, to create good games. 5-7GB "usable" 64bit Ram/CPU makes things so much easier, compared to the last gen of consoles.

All this means more profit for game developers, while allowing faster and streamlined development processes. This means better and more diverse games on all platforms, since a PC only dev can now aim much higher, if he also can get a console version out. Indy devs now also can target consoles, since only minimal special knowledge is needed, hence u probably might not even need to buy a DevKit, since the CPU/GPU is so similar to what a PC has.

I think both mayor consoles going for "normal" x86 CPU's and standard GPU's, is the best thing that could happen for both PC and console gamers!


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Orenji Jiji Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 68	Posted - 2013.05.18 22:49:00 - [1] - Quote Daxxis KANNAH wrote: It should really launch with PS4 or be there by Christmas. It would be a big boost. I wonder if CCP is just this slow with content delivery or they are actually double timing working on the PS4 client. Yeah this would be a big boost, because sooo many people will buy PS4 on launch and all of them will play DUST instead of launch titles. that will be based on PS4 dedicated engines. If PS4 could not play with PS3 people this would basically kill the game. Seriously, with newest game lineup scheduled for christmas (MGS, GT6) I will not be thinking about PS4. Besides I no longer buy 1st version of next gen -- will wait for slim, because I've been burned before. (Well I might get it if it's super awesome, but it seems unlikely). Good luck with that plan, though.
Orenji Jiji Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 71	Posted - 2013.05.19 12:44:00 - [2] - Quote The Cobra Commander wrote: Panther Alpha wrote: He does speaks for the "Majority" of people ... I always wait about a year before i get a new console, no point of spending lots of cash in a machine with only few games to play on it.. and also the PS3 games price, will drop allot when the PS4 is release, so you can build you self a nice little collection of games for not much money. ...you mean like those "majority of people" who were camped out in WalMart parking lots waiting for 12 am so they could get a PS3? I'd like to say I speak for the majority of people who bought every Sony console since the original Playstation (not Vita, though, because getting f'd on first PSP was enough). First hardware generation is not worth it, I'm speaking from experience. Laheon wrote: You do realise that CCP do have an eye on the future? They couldn't use the carbon engine because the PS3 specs are too **** for it. It's doubtful that they'll switch to it, though, the dev team will have had a huge amount of experience with Unreal by then. More likely that they'll switch onto the Unreal 4. By the way, if you'd actually followed any threads recently, you'll have seen that I've mentioned there were rumors they were developing in Unreal 4 and porting across into Unreal 3... Listen. I am a software engineer. I don't do games professionally, but let me tell you this: Unreal engine in the vanilla form is not made for PS3. It takes a ton of tweaking and tuning to get it right on a console -- which can be done and has been done -- and CCP is having hard time with it. It's because it was not dedicated to the console out of the box and they are not experienced in doing this kind of game. I get it -- PS4, UE4, all assets will be just converted to next gen engine and hardware will be so much better -- it will all work out. Except PS4 hardware is currently on par with high tier gaming PCs from March 2012. Let that sink in. And it will be x86, just like new XBOX, because let's just sell our users a r'tarded PC that stands next to a TV. Basically it will be a low-end gaming PC, impossible to upgrade, with locked-in OS, that says it's a gaming console. Designed by accountants and other bean counters to maximize profits and minimize development time or production cost. Mid-tier gaming PCs from Christmas 2013 will crush it, as it is already obsolete May 2013. Having said that I will buy it the day hardware reaches rev 2, because there will be no better exclusive lineup for me. TL;DR please don't expect that "next gen hardware will fix everything". It's about optimizing the game, not waiting for better platform.
Orenji Jiji Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 75	Posted - 2013.05.21 13:04:00 - [3] - Quote THE GREY CARDINAL wrote: lol http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Cerny Facts, you should acquire a few some time. Perhaps the XBOX designer was an accountant...I dunno. I'm sorry for your reading handicap kiddo, but I'll try to help you overcome it. It's the same with Toyota FT86, Scion FRS and Subaru BRZ -- good cars from the engineering standpoint, but basically bean counters' wet dream (develop once, sell as 3 cars). Here we've got: easy + cheap architecture, close to both vanilla PC and next xbox, already sub-par when it comes to PC. Cheap to produce, cheap to make games for. "Cheap" is the main word for next gen consoles. It pains me even more, because I will get one anyway. Sony and Microsoft going with x86 is just a money-grab move. Perhaps they've finally learned on bleeding money on hardware production and want to limit the spill these days. But I know one thing -- this was driven by accountants, not by engineers. And btw. I'm not a PC elitist. I did not own a gaming rig for few years now, PCs are strictly business for me. I am mostly Sony loyal console gamer.
Orenji Jiji Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 75	Posted - 2013.05.22 11:54:00 - [4] - Quote AndyPandy Puschel wrote: Orenji Jiji wrote: Sony and Microsoft going with x86 is just a money-grab move. Perhaps they've finally learned reg. bleeding money on hardware production and want to limit the spill these days. But I know one thing -- this was driven by accountants, not by engineers. U seem to have a little misconception here, so let me ask u: Given a 250$ hardware budget and the problems developers had with the "strange" PS3/PSU architecture, what hardware would u use in your nextGen console? This means how u get the most bang for the buck? Honestly? No clue. I'm not hw engineer, but I am aware that exotic architecture is both expensive to R&D, mass production and software development time. Libraries and engines takes years to be perfected, while on x86 we get some pretty sweet advancement out of the box. I remember Sega Saturn problems, still glad my dad liked Sony and got me PlayStation instead, despite me asking for Sega. AndyPandy Puschel wrote: I would either pick ARM smart-phone hardware or ofc older PC hardware, u need to get as much "useable" performance as u can get, so picking PC hardware was the obvious choice. Given our currently increasing AAA title budget, its much more important to get a easy to develop console out, instead of some "funky" theoretically MFLOPS stats using some strange and obscure hardware architecture. I dig that and while I see ARM as the future of PC (Microsoft is with me on this) I don't think we'd be able to get this much power out of it without some heavy R&D, which nobody wants to commit to anymore. And x86 is so much more robust when it comes to ready solutions for gaming. AndyPandy Puschel wrote: U also seem to forget that the hardware we will be able to buy, will probably be still subsidized at first, so no u wont be able to build a similar performing PC given the same budget, so i wont call this "money-grabing". I also don't understand whats so bad on a affordable, easy to use gaming console? Simply don't believe the marketing, ofc a console cant compete with current high end PC's, how could they given the budget? Remember u don't pay 1000$ for a console. Nah, I meant money-grabbing as in: heavily reduced R&D, reduced manufacturing cost, reduced cost of getting non-exclusive titles (for the lazy most likely just one step: recompile with correct flags). Damn, at this point PS4 seems to be winning with Xbox One by RAM used and losing by USB speed, lack of speech recog and kinect, but the rest is more or less the same. They did not specify core series or graphics yet, unless I'm wrong, but it's basically identical to PS4, except for the OS. So it will be just dumbed down PC -- what was the point of the console then? Exclusive games? Boot lock? DRM chip? I only care about one of these things and now I could just play them on gaming PC, right? I mean the game will be for x86 architecture and PC GPU, just locked to play on a single box? Seems logical. As I said above -- I don't play on PC anymore. I will get a PS4. I'm just having problems with rationalizing this against cutom built HTPC that could run the same stuff without a hitch. I'm not hating, just losing faith. ;-)
Orenji Jiji Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 76	Posted - 2013.05.24 09:06:00 - [5] - Quote AndyPandy Puschel wrote: What was the point than last console generation? At the time Xbox360/PS3 hit the market all your above points are as valid as they are now? U always could get and play the same none exclusive console games on PC, while some PC only games always looked better. Honestly? When PS3 came out it was not even a question to me (PS, PS2 and PSP owner) -- I was a believer. Gran Turismo, Metal Gear Solid, Killzone, anything Naughty Dog. BluRay on the cheap. Playing games from PS2 (first models). Able to run Linux. Very cool CELL architecture. It was a little bit over-hyped, but in the spirit of olden consoles (basically streamlined arcade machine in a small box). I never cared about XBOX, so I only half-read the laments of it becoming a dumbed down PC box. AndyPandy Puschel wrote: The reason is the same as before: A console is a affordable, low maintenance, easy to use gaming "BOX", that can be used "out of the box" from your couch on the big screen. The new consoles may add TV and Internet capabilities, but this just shortens the gap to a PC. I get your point, I really do, but riddle me this: With ZERO conversion costs for porting and evergrowing PC power how will you feel when all the games you've got are released for PC and run so much better on your 80" inch plasma? Because this is what will happen. Exclusivity deals will only last that long. AndyPandy Puschel wrote: Sure someone may argue, "But the steambox will change this all", but the SteamBox still comes with linux pre-installed, which given the current Linux games is no alternative to tinker with it and install windows on it, which is by no means a "out of the box" experience u get on consoles. Steambox is a fail. Too expensive. And I say this as Linux user. I know valve is working hard on porting their source portfolio, but still -- PS4 for me. AndyPandy Puschel wrote: So u need to ask yourself, why did u care for any console last generation? Like in all previous console generations: exclusives. AndyPandy Puschel wrote: On the bright side, see how things unfold from the developer perspective. Mid-size to small PC only developers are now able to get extra profit, by allowing the easy and cheap ports to both consoles. This is huge! On top of that console developers now have a much easier time to create games for all platforms, since its basically the same architecture without any obscure hardware differences like PS3/SPU or IBM in-order CPU's. Even better console developers have the best conditions ever, to create good games. 5-7GB "usable" 64bit Ram/CPU makes things so much easier, compared to the last gen of consoles. All this means more profit for game developers, while allowing faster and streamlined development processes. This means better and more diverse games on all platforms, since a PC only dev can now aim much higher, if he also can get a console version out. Indy devs now also can target consoles, since only minimal special knowledge is needed, hence u probably might not even need to buy a DevKit, since the CPU/GPU is so similar to what a PC has. I think both mayor consoles going for "normal" x86 CPU's and standard GPU's, is the best thing that could happen for both PC and console gamers! I dig that, and from one end it makes me really happy -- if only we could get sane game prices with this process it would be great. It's just the bad taste it leaves because when it comes to exclusive content I believe that "The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers". Guess the future will tell. I will get one still, just not the first batch, as I will be very busy with Holiday lineup on PS3. :) Thanks for not trolling, bro, I appreciate adult discussion.