DUST Search - Vehicle Stealth Nerf. Again.

THE ROMAN GENERAL wrote:

FOR SOME REASON, SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA FOR HAV TURRET DAMAGE TO EQUAL HANDHELD DAMAGE

With damage nerfd so much, why don't we look at the large blaster turret?

80GJ Scattered Ion Cannon: ~1072 DPS
150.1 HP
428.6 RPM

Duvolle Tactical Assault Rifle: ~1032 DPS
78.5 HP
789.5 RPM

That's before applying damage mods and skills, but keep in mind that Large Turrets only get a 15% bonus from skills, just like all handheld weapons do. The difference is that a HAV's damage mods slightly increase RoF, but only one can be reasonably equipped to an armor HAV, none to shield.

And BTW vehicle operators, do not think that the CPM will listen to you. A number of those on the current CPM asked CCP to replace the turret damage skills with something else, like faster turret rotation.

Uprising PG and vehicle stat concerns were brought to the attention of the CPM before Uprising was released, but the CPM responded by saying that vehicle damage skills were too high, and that was the CPM's main concern, not the survivability of the vehicles themselves.


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CharCharOdell Shining Flame Amarr Empire 223	Posted - 2013.05.18 18:45:00 - [1] - Quote https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=79086&find=unread I would like to bring this to the attention of the CPM. Basically, now we do even less damage and nobody asked for that. Not the tankers. Not the AV. As if we were not weak enough, already. We need a champion. We, the vehicle users of New Eden, need all you to band together and save us. Too many of those who used to tank and fly dropships have given up hope because CCP does not reward our play style.
CharCharOdell Shining Flame Amarr Empire 223	Posted - 2013.05.19 23:47:00 - [2] - Quote THE ROMAN GENERAL wrote: FOR SOME REASON, SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA FOR HAV TURRET DAMAGE TO EQUAL HANDHELD DAMAGE With damage nerfd so much, why don't we look at the large blaster turret? 80GJ Scattered Ion Cannon: ~1072 DPS 150.1 HP 428.6 RPM Duvolle Tactical Assault Rifle: ~1032 DPS 78.5 HP 789.5 RPM That's before applying damage mods and skills, but keep in mind that Large Turrets only get a 15% bonus from skills, just like all handheld weapons do. The difference is that a HAV's damage mods slightly increase RoF, but only one can be reasonably equipped to an armor HAV, none to shield. And BTW vehicle operators, do not think that the CPM will listen to you. A number of those on the current CPM asked CCP to replace the turret damage skills with something else, like faster turret rotation. Uprising PG and vehicle stat concerns were brought to the attention of the CPM before Uprising was released, but the CPM responded by saying that vehicle damage skills were too high, and that was the CPM's main concern, not the survivability of the vehicles themselves. Infantry weapon damage (specifically AR and AV) needs to be reduced because it makes no since that a large blaster is nearly the same damage per minute as an AR. It should be no contest at all. And the breach proto forge does more DPS than a compressed particle cannon which makes NO sense. Id rather put one of those on my tank at this point. However, tanks need a PG buff. This would fix a lot and make them more customize-able. Right now, every turret has ONE fit that works with it. In chromosome, every turret had a few commonly used and effective fittings. For example, you every turret and hull could be fit do go fast, kill tanks, kill grunts, take damage, or be general purpose. Now, it's mostly about taking damage and nothing else bc there isn't any PG to spare on anything except shields and plates. About turret damage: other than the fact that infantry weapons are just as deadly against either vehicles or infantry (depending on the weapon), turret damage is okay. I like how long tank battles last now. Too bad the damage and PG reduction (as well as a speed nerf) hit shield tanks hardest. Now armor tanks are the ONLY tanks. In chromosome, shield tanks were best at long range and the GTFO-abilities, while armor were best for up close combat. It was pretty well balanced, actually. Can we just bring tanks back to their Chromosome glory, but with a PG buff (10%/lvl) and passive damage skills for the turrets returned, but keep the damage mods the way they are now. The optimal AV vs Vehicle balance: 1 Proto Forge can keep 1 STD HAV from going 30:0 but cannot make him useless. 2 proto forges means he dies. AV nades need to only do enough damage to push tanks back-not kill them. (reduce dmg of the advanced to 500) AV vs Tanks needs to be balanced on PROTO vs STD because their are no true proto tanks but there is a lot of proto and adv AV. Until we get true proto Havs, AV needs to be nerfed- a lot.
CharCharOdell Shining Flame Amarr Empire 223	Posted - 2013.05.20 01:18:00 - [3] - Quote On that note, before anything else changes (AV, turrets, speed, etc), can you start by asking CCP to give us back our PG to at least what it was prior to Uprising? 10%/lvl would be pretty fair, at least until we get proto vehicles, but most people would be happy to have the 5% PG/lvl back. Also, railguns are pretty hard to use up close and only a few prodigies can use them very well once you get inside 50m, so if someone has the skill to account for charge up, travel time, and the speed of their target, they deserve a OHK. Same with missiles, but with missiles, I'd rather see an increase in spalsh radius and damage with a nerf to direct damage so it functions more as a suppression weapon that an infantry killer. The blaster is honestly fine where it's at, in my opinion, but increasing the fire rate and reducing the damage to where it matches the duvolle (kind of ridiculous that the duvolle is the same), would be fine, i suppose. AV nades are the biggest threats to tanks right now due to their lack of skill to use, damage, and low cost. If i get killed by an issukone proto forge then alright, they invested themselves in its function so i do deserve to be killed by it, but getting killed by TAC ARS bc they have AV nades is ridiculous. That's 4500dmg in 3 seconds per person. Multiply that by 7 and you get 27,000 in 3 seconds. IF the damage were cut down to 1/3 (500 dmg, nade), itd be enough to make any smart tank driver GTFO, but not enough for any two or three people to solo a tank with grenades. As I said before, AV vs Vehicle is skewed right now bc its balanced for proto HAVs that dont exist right now. There are only 4 solutions: 1: Nerf AV damage 2: remove adv and proto AV 3: add ADV and PROTO vehicles 4: buff vehicle base PG by 30%-50% Any one of these would balance it out very well, but im not really happy about things getting nerfed bc thats what ruins this game on the first place. A lot of people think i want to be going 30:0 with my tank and that is simply not the case for most of us. We'd rather be able to last more than (literally) 3 seconds on the front lines to provide support fire. Maybe adding the opposite of an enforcer would help this problem. Possibly, giving this specific tank a turret dmg reduction of 20% while buffing its base HP by 30% and its PG by 25% over its standard counterparts, so it doesnt kill tanks or infantry well, but it takes a huge beating. Then possibly a third ADV class of HAVS which focuses on speed. 30% faster than their STD counterparts but with a very low base armor and shield rating, but untouched damage. A light tank, so to speak. The true proto tanks would be the King TIgers of the battlefield with 5 high, 5 low, huge base PG, CPU, HP (in general), and the ability to go into a state of immobility while increasing range and damage, while also being as fast as their standard varients. Of course, these would be so expensive, that only the richest corps would deploy them and only the best tankers would be funded for them. That's what I see a proto tank as - truly unkillable by all but a full squad of proto AV or another proto tank...or an assault dropship. An appropriate price: 15,000,000/hull. The balance here is that nobody in their right mind would dare using these in all but the most important battles because they would take weeks to earn back if lost.
CharCharOdell Shining Flame Amarr Empire 223	Posted - 2013.05.20 01:37:00 - [4] - Quote ladwar wrote: so its clear CPM wants the TAR to beat all other weapons including HMGs at CQC, all turrets including scatter ion cannon, shotguns at CQC snipers at long range. great... welcome to TAR514. It's quite obvious the TAR is ruining this game's variety.
CharCharOdell Shining Flame Amarr Empire 223	Posted - 2013.05.20 01:38:00 - [5] - Quote If tanks are not going to be buffed, they need a massive reduction in cost. Cut the turret cost by 75%, hull by 50%, and keep modules the same. Then tanks will punch within their ISK cost.