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Mike Poole
Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State
20
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Posted - 2013.05.18 17:52:00 -
[1] - Quote
Having a free and infinite supply of starter sets is a bit much, its supports a concept of spamability and reckless use.
There needs to be a visible consequence when you throw away a clone using a starter set to promote more survival and tactical based game play.
For instance say that rather than having an infinite supply you have a limit of X many of each set per match. Now this supply can restock itself after each match but it still gives consequences to players actions.
If someone makes reckless assaults on an enemy position over and over again they'll see their supply dwindle and perhaps begin thinking strategically, they'll move with other players to increase their chances of survival rather than playing as a lone wolf that just needs to spawn another free starter set when they get ambushed alone.
Similarly you can take care of the spamming of free LAV's by applying the same system. With a limited supply of free LAV's per match someone can try playing murder taxi but if they're too reckless they'll quickly find themselves trying to bum a ride with someone else until the next game. |
Cody Sietz
The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION
122
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Posted - 2013.05.18 17:55:00 -
[2] - Quote
Hmmmm, I do like the idea. As long as newer players get there items back after each match then I'm fine with it.
How many uses per item would get per match? |
Full Metal Kitten
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
373
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Posted - 2013.05.18 17:56:00 -
[3] - Quote
The cost of militia gear is so cheap it hardly really matters tbh. Starter LAVs just need their pre-buff HP so the can be TK'd with a single advanced grenade. I'm in favor of removing the starter LAV BPO though. For those that get one through a Merc pack, no problem. |
Kazeno Rannaa
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
172
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Posted - 2013.05.18 17:56:00 -
[4] - Quote
Interesting approach to this particular problem of the death cabs. I would suggest that they would only be available in public matches with a limited run allowed during each match, much like you suggest. As for FW and PC matches, I would say that they shouldn't be allowed.
Skill up and buy a car. Or wait until we get the bikes. Either way, like you suggested, there should basically be a greater implementation of the systems of consequence. |
Mike Poole
Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State
20
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Posted - 2013.05.18 18:00:00 -
[5] - Quote
Full Metal Kitten wrote:The cost of militia gear is so cheap it hardly really matters tbh. Starter LAVs just need their pre-buff HP so the can be TK'd with a single advanced grenade. I'm in favor of removing the starter LAV BPO though. For those that get one through a Merc pack, no problem.
Even cheap there's still consequences to throwing away militia gear that has even a simple psychological effect if not one on your wallet.
Throw away a non-starter militia set and you still see your stock drop with each death instead of just seeing an infinity symbol, you still have to restock those losses and even at the slight cost consider what you could have better spent those funds on. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
3101
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Posted - 2013.05.18 18:03:00 -
[6] - Quote
Those fits are so laughably bad there is literally no reason to charge.
My all militia fit on my 0 SP alt only costs about 2k per death and is leaps and bounds better than those garbage fit.
Silly idea is silly |
Mike Poole
Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State
20
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Posted - 2013.05.18 18:23:00 -
[7] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Those fits are so laughably bad there is literally no reason to charge.
My all militia fit on my 0 SP alt only costs about 2k per death and is leaps and bounds better than those garbage fit.
Silly idea is silly
How "good" the sets are doesn't mean crap. Having an infinite supply still promotes new players to play recklessly because they never have to worry about running out and leaves other players with guilt free suicide run sets.
And your alt's 2k militia set still doesn't cover the problem with unlimited free murder taxi's that this system could also address, unless it's standard for people to spend 30-40k a vehicle to recklessly plow their murder taxi's into the middle of enemy lines.
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Noc Tempre
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
1551
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Posted - 2013.05.18 18:24:00 -
[8] - Quote
Lock them from modification is edge case acceptable. But considering I can have a whole arsenal of free fits with just a touch of AUR magic, I don't see the point. |
Full Metal Kitten
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
375
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Posted - 2013.05.18 18:27:00 -
[9] - Quote
Mike Poole wrote:Full Metal Kitten wrote:The cost of militia gear is so cheap it hardly really matters tbh. Starter LAVs just need their pre-buff HP so the can be TK'd with a single advanced grenade. I'm in favor of removing the starter LAV BPO though. For those that get one through a Merc pack, no problem. Even cheap there's still consequences to throwing away militia gear that has even a simple psychological effect if not one on your wallet. Throw away a non-starter militia set and you still see your stock drop with each death instead of just seeing an infinity symbol, you still have to restock those losses and even at the slight cost consider what you could have better spent those funds on.
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DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
3101
|
Posted - 2013.05.18 18:48:00 -
[10] - Quote
Mike Poole wrote:And your alt's 2k militia set still doesn't cover the problem with unlimited free murder taxi's that this system could also address, unless it's standard for people to spend 30-40k a vehicle to recklessly plow their murder taxi's into the middle of enemy lines.
Free LAVs need to go, the starter dropsuits aren't a problem at all though. They're insanely basic and weak, and it promotes spending ISK because you want to get out of them and start advancing.
Free vehicles are stupid though and always have been. |
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Delirium Inferno
Edoras Corporation
296
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Posted - 2013.05.18 18:56:00 -
[11] - Quote
I support this idea. It's less about forcing new players to start worrying about ISK, because as stated these suits would be super cheap to make, but it does get players into the mindset that everything is a consumable asset and they must buy every piece for every life and know that it won't last forever. |
inohahna mamotto
The Sangheli
22
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Posted - 2013.05.18 18:59:00 -
[12] - Quote
Im against it its bad enough it will take new players a very long time to even get competitive and since they already have low isk and sp as it is when they start out it will be bad for them to have to start worrying about item loss especially when they graduate from the academy they wont stand a chance so unlimited militia sets is all they will have untill they can upgrade their gear |
Mike Poole
Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State
20
|
Posted - 2013.05.18 19:02:00 -
[13] - Quote
inohahna mamotto wrote:Im against it its bad enough it will take new players a very long time to even get competitive and since they akready have low isk and sp as it is when they start out it will be bad for them to have to start wprrying about item loss especially when they graduate from the academy they wont stand a chance so unlimited militia sets is all they will have untill they can upgrade their gear
Try actually reading my post instead of stopping at the title because there would be zero item loss with this system unless someone builds their own suit and isn't using the starter sets in the first place. |
Soldier of Mawat
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
55
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Posted - 2013.05.18 19:47:00 -
[14] - Quote
What would happen if the person died enough times to exhaust their supply of "free" fits for that match? Highly hypothetical question but what if somebody didn't have any other fits available? They have just started playing this game and do not understand how to make fits and so have just been using the starter fits. |
tribal wyvern
ZionTCD Unclaimed.
906
|
Posted - 2013.05.18 19:55:00 -
[15] - Quote
Mike Poole wrote:Having a free and infinite supply of starter sets is a bit much, its supports a concept of spamability and reckless use.
There needs to be a visible consequence when you throw away a clone using a starter set to promote more survival and tactical based game play.
For instance say that rather than having an infinite supply you have a limit of X many of each set per match. Now this supply can restock itself after each match but it still gives consequences to players actions.
If someone makes reckless assaults on an enemy position over and over again they'll see their supply dwindle and perhaps begin thinking strategically, they'll move with other players to increase their chances of survival rather than playing as a lone wolf that just needs to spawn another free starter set when they get ambushed alone.
Similarly you can take care of the spamming of free LAV's by applying the same system. With a limited supply of free LAV's per match someone can try playing murder taxi but if they're too reckless they'll quickly find themselves trying to bum a ride with someone else until the next game. No! Starter fits give new people a chance. Sooner or later they have to switch from infinite starter fits to std/adv/proto once they have enough sp and isk, or they don't stand a chance against other people using higher tier gear. But the infinite starter fits are needed. |
Crash Monster
Snipers Anonymous
291
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Posted - 2013.05.18 19:56:00 -
[16] - Quote
Mike Poole wrote:How "good" the sets are doesn't mean crap. Having an infinite supply still promotes new players to play recklessly because they never have to worry about running out and leaves other players with guilt free suicide run sets.
Are you worried about ideology or some actual issue with game play.
As far as I could tell I never got into any ideological trouble when I started playing and free suits were available. I basically deleted all those fittings as soon as I figured out that I could fund better fittings permanently.
Oh, the moral hazard!
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Mike Poole
Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State
21
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Posted - 2013.05.18 19:58:00 -
[17] - Quote
Soldier of Mawat wrote:What would happen if the person died enough times to exhaust their supply of "free" fits for that match? Highly hypothetical question but what if somebody didn't have any other fits available? They have just started playing this game and do not understand how to make fits and so have just been using the starter fits.
Then they've learned something.
Don't waste a set by running head first into an enemy position, stay with other players to maximize your chance for survivability etc etc.
Let's just imagine you give 10 set per setup, between the 4 base setups (frontline, medic, sniper anti-armor) that's 40 clones worth!
Even if you go to an extreme and limit it to 5 each that's 20 clones worth!
I had a rough time when I started out but I don't think I ever went through 20-40 clones in a single game. |
Skyhound Solbrave
Rough Riders..
90
|
Posted - 2013.05.18 20:38:00 -
[18] - Quote
Do it for LAVs, not drop suits. You have to realize that there are people that don't come from EVE when they start Dust, and the fact that everything is expended as you die isn't clearly explained when you start playing. I was very confused when I started playing why I wasn't able to use the stuff I was buying. I didn't find out about how it works until I looked up what was the difference between Militia items and their BPOs.
To anyone who didn't bother to look it up, a limited number of fits per match would seem like a really stupid system. The system Dust uses now seems more like a stupid nuisance since we still haven't made our impact on the Eve economy or have our own. |
Rasatsu
Much Crying Old Experts
724
|
Posted - 2013.05.18 20:49:00 -
[19] - Quote
Sounds like someone doesn't know how EVE works.
Limit... hah. |
gobblygoohmy
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
0
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Posted - 2013.05.18 21:00:00 -
[20] - Quote
CCP should make gear restricted matches, that way people will only have skill bonuses and personal ability as an advantage. Plus the loot system is based on the value of items destroyed, so playing in matches where no one can bring anything higher then militia/ standard will generate little or no profit for most but still give SP to graduate to better gear with. This would still leave team cooperation an issue though. |
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