DUST Search - [Feedback] An Eve Players perspective to Orbital Bombardment

alten hilt wrote:

I have participated in several Eve-side fleets to provide Orbital Bombardment opportunities to Dust players. I've provided OB support in 100 man fleets, and I've been the only pilot in orbit. None of my OB fleets were contested by the enemy and for good reason because;

Orbital Bombardments don't matter

In its current implementation, Orbital bombardments are earned just like Precision strikes; 2500 War Points earned by a squad. Sure, they are supposedly more powerful, but counter this with the fact that Precision strikes are near instantaneous, while OB's are subject to the EVE players and lag.

This usually means that the EVE fleet above waits 20 - 30 minutes to launch 1 - 3 strikes (maybe more if you are point-whoring in a tank.) Eve players get no killmails from OB, are bored out of their minds waiting, only a few players are even marginally rewarded with the opportunity to OB, and meanwhile the whole fleet has to deal with the risk of getting and staying in position. While DUST players on the ground have to choose between an instantaneous PS or a laggy OB.

To recap: There is no need for DUST Corps to have air superiority. And there is no incentive for EVE pilots to go provide air support.

A solution for this would be to implement the same OB system we saw during the fanfest tournament: OB's available every 20 - 30 seconds to the Alliance who obtains air superiority. This would incentivize both DUST and EVE players to compete for the space above a DUST battle, because air superiority would provide an incredible resource edge. This is balanced by the fact that DUST players cannot indiscriminately call in OBs (like in pup matches) because in Planetary Conquest, friendly fire is on.

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alten hilt DUST University Ivy League 14	Posted - 2013.05.18 13:07:00 - [1] - Quote I have participated in several Eve-side fleets to provide Orbital Bombardment opportunities to Dust players. I've provided OB support in 100 man fleets, and I've been the only pilot in orbit. None of my OB fleets were contested by the enemy and for good reason because; Orbital Bombardments don't matter In its current implementation, Orbital bombardments are earned just like Precision strikes; 2500 War Points earned by a squad. Sure, they are supposedly more powerful, but counter this with the fact that Precision strikes are near instantaneous, while OB's are subject to the EVE players and lag. This usually means that the EVE fleet above waits 20 - 30 minutes to launch 1 - 3 strikes (maybe more if you are point-whoring in a tank.) Eve players get no killmails from OB, are bored out of their minds waiting, only a few players are even marginally rewarded with the opportunity to OB, and meanwhile the whole fleet has to deal with the risk of getting and staying in position. While DUST players on the ground have to choose between an instantaneous PS or a laggy OB. To recap: There is no need for DUST Corps to have air superiority. And there is no incentive for EVE pilots to go provide air support. A solution for this would be to implement the same OB system we saw during the fanfest tournament: OB's available every 20 - 30 seconds to the Alliance who obtains air superiority. This would incentivize both DUST and EVE players to compete for the space above a DUST battle, because air superiority would provide an incredible resource edge. This is balanced by the fact that DUST players cannot indiscriminately call in OBs (like in pup matches) because in Planetary Conquest, friendly fire is on.
Zyrus Amalomyn Militaires-Sans-Frontieres 152	Posted - 2013.05.18 13:27:00 - [2] - Quote You obviously don't understand just how much more ground OBs cover over precision strikes :p While I do agree that EVe side needs more incentives to care about the ground, FW being what it is is a good start. Just need financial transactions to be put in and we'll start seeing FW get a lot more interesting.
alten hilt DUST University Ivy League 16	Posted - 2013.05.18 13:43:00 - [3] - Quote I understand very well. Having launched OBs and been on the receiveing end in Faction Warfare. But it really depends on the gun type of the Eve Fleet. If the strike is from Hybrid guns, then yes, the OB covers a whole lot of ground. Laser OB's deal much more concentrated damage but over a smaller area (not sure if the blast radius is larger compared to Precision Stikes). Projectile OB's are never used as they only deal shield damage.
slypie11 Planetary Response Organisation 283	Posted - 2013.05.18 13:43:00 - [4] - Quote alten hilt wrote: I have participated in several Eve-side fleets to provide Orbital Bombardment opportunities to Dust players. I've provided OB support in 100 man fleets, and I've been the only pilot in orbit. None of my OB fleets were contested by the enemy and for good reason because; Orbital Bombardments don't matter In its current implementation, Orbital bombardments are earned just like Precision strikes; 2500 War Points earned by a squad. Sure, they are supposedly more powerful, but counter this with the fact that Precision strikes are near instantaneous, while OB's are subject to the EVE players and lag. This usually means that the EVE fleet above waits 20 - 30 minutes to launch 1 - 3 strikes (maybe more if you are point-whoring in a tank.) Eve players get no killmails from OB, are bored out of their minds waiting, only a few players are even marginally rewarded with the opportunity to OB, and meanwhile the whole fleet has to deal with the risk of getting and staying in position. While DUST players on the ground have to choose between an instantaneous PS or a laggy OB. To recap: There is no need for DUST Corps to have air superiority. And there is no incentive for EVE pilots to go provide air support. A solution for this would be to implement the same OB system we saw during the fanfest tournament: OB's available every 20 - 30 seconds to the Alliance who obtains air superiority. This would incentivize both DUST and EVE players to compete for the space above a DUST battle, because air superiority would provide an incredible resource edge. This is balanced by the fact that DUST players cannot indiscriminately call in OBs (like in pup matches) because in Planetary Conquest, friendly fire is on. good idea, foxfour talked about this already, and so did the CPM, they said that issues needed to be worked out. Iron Wolf Saber only mentioned the ability for DUST players to shoot back, but I'm assuming lag is in there too.
Kristoff Atruin Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 596	Posted - 2013.05.18 18:06:00 - [5] - Quote I think 20 to 30 seconds might be too often, and I say that as a member of an alliance that has absolutely no trouble keeping space superiority. The basic idea is sound though. We've had several fights where fleets formed up and were unable to drop strikes at all due to technical problems etc. They have to use a jump clone to get to the region, and that means they have a 24 hour period where they aren't available for srs bsns fleets in null. On top of that they wind up bored from not being able to do much of anything. Even if the fight goes like it normally would they'll only get to drop a couple strikes. I wouldn't be surprised if they just stopped showing up.
slypie11 Planetary Response Organisation 283	Posted - 2013.05.18 18:09:00 - [6] - Quote Kristoff Atruin wrote: I think 20 to 30 seconds might be too often, and I say that as a member of an alliance that has absolutely no trouble keeping space superiority. The basic idea is sound though. We've had several fights where fleets formed up and were unable to drop strikes at all due to technical problems etc. They have to use a jump clone to get to the region, and that means they have a 24 hour period where they aren't available for srs bsns fleets in null. On top of that they wind up bored from not being able to do much of anything. Even if the fight goes like it normally would they'll only get to drop a couple strikes. I wouldn't be surprised if they just stopped showing up. what if the more ships you had in orbit, the more strikes you could drops. Like if you had 100 ships around the planet in your alliance, they could drop 5 OBs per 2,500 points or 30 secs or whatever. Would be really OP if you have a large alliance but very cool
alten hilt DUST University Ivy League 17	Posted - 2013.05.20 16:00:00 - [7] - Quote Kristoff Atruin wrote: I think 20 to 30 seconds might be too often, and I say that as a member of an alliance that has absolutely no trouble keeping space superiority. The basic idea is sound though. We've had several fights where fleets formed up and were unable to drop strikes at all due to technical problems etc. They have to use a jump clone to get to the region, and that means they have a 24 hour period where they aren't available for srs bsns fleets in null. On top of that they wind up bored from not being able to do much of anything. Even if the fight goes like it normally would they'll only get to drop a couple strikes. I wouldn't be surprised if they just stopped showing up. I think you've nailed the problem right on the head. Supporting DUST is too unrewarding, too obtrusive, and too underwhelming for the majority of EVE players. For our last few PC matches, I was the only one to show up for orbital bombardment support. It was just so boring, lackluster, and unfulfilling that I couldn't convince anyone to come with me. Supporting DUST disrupted their play style, with little or no reward (tangible or otherwise.) It was a novel thing to try once, but that was it. Most of the pilots who went out on the OB fleets wanted to feel like gods in the sky: launching strike after strike, glassing the planetary surface, Killmails, rewards, etc. Most also wished they could watch the battle from space (maybe a billboard or something). In the end, EVE bonuses will not be enough to incentivizing EVE players to participate, because you have to operate out of the controlled system in order for it to apply. Most serious PI occurs in Wormhole space or Null. Missioning is in High or Null space. PvP is almost never confined to one system. Ratting mostly occurs in Low and Null, but usually not a single system. Exploration/plexing occurs everywhere, but you go where the cosmic sigs and anoms are. Molden Heath is mostly a PvP (pirate or otherwise) playground, so who is going to risk the ganks and relocate critical infrastructure and resources to get bonuses that could easily disappear? And what bonuses are you going to offer to pull EVE players away from their chosen location and play style? Some serious questions the Devs are going to need to address if they want a vibrant EVE/DUST link.
Daedric Lothar Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 377	Posted - 2013.05.20 16:59:00 - [8] - Quote Yea, this is how I figured OB would go. I was warning about it alot before the Uprising patch. there are really only 2 ways to go about it. Force EVE players to contribute because if they don't they suffer sever negative side effects. Like cannons from the ground can damage stations and ships in system, prevent ice and moon goo from mining. Nearly fully halt production in stations above surface. or Incentivize it. Make it give big rewards, make it more participatory. Make it fully part of the game where areas need to shielded on the ground or EVE pilots can just rain bombardment after bombardment on unprotected targets. Knowing how lame mining and ratting is... I would say we will probably end up with the former, rather then the latter.
Mobius Wyvern BetaMax. CRONOS. 1605	Posted - 2013.05.20 18:02:00 - [9] - Quote 20-30 seconds would return us to the days of that build that came before Codex, where you would just have them raining down constantly and blapping everyone on the field until the game just wasn't fun anymore.
From Costa Rica Grupo de Asalto Chacal CRONOS. 87	Posted - 2013.05.20 22:26:00 - [10] - Quote Its hard to accomplish yes, will they give up no. They only need to find a way to make it fun for eve pilots... play some music or give the ISK or something.



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