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Vaerana Myshtana
Bojo's School of the Trades
919
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Posted - 2013.05.15 01:53:00 -
[1] - Quote
Problem: The only way for AV players to get WP from doing their job (as opposed to hacking or pretending to be assaults) is to kill vehicles.
Part of the reason that AVers are so dead-set on solo-killing vehicles is because THAT is the only way for AV players to get rewarded. No killshot, no rewards. None. Nada.
If there was some better WP reward for AV other than killshots, that would fix a lot of the metagame balance issue.
I propose an across the board 50 WP for every 2000 HP of damage any player inflicts. The game is now tracking our total damage output, so that should not be a technical obstacle.
For AVers: Pushing vehicles around the map without killing them (arguably our job) would now be rewarding in itself (for SP and ISK). That 50WP per 2000 HP would also mean that the effective rewards for killing Advanced vehicles would be more commensurate with the challenge.
For everyone else: The 50WP per 2000 HP means that players who are doing a lot of assistive shooting but rarely dropping anyone outright are getting rewarded for doing their job as well. It encourages team play and focusing fire because even if you don't get the Kill or the Kill Assist, you are earning towards a WP award. |
Thor Thunder Fist
Better Hide R Die
102
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Posted - 2013.05.15 02:02:00 -
[2] - Quote
there used to be a +25 for every k damage delt or so back several builds ago and I strongly hope it comes back soon |
Gelan Corbaine
BetaMax. CRONOS.
165
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Posted - 2013.05.15 02:11:00 -
[3] - Quote
+1 This needs to be done ! I still don't know why it was taken out . I don't mind vehicles being made tougher as long as I am rewarded for trying to kill them .
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Ecshon Autorez
Nova Tech Marines Hephaestus Forge Alliance
20
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Posted - 2013.05.15 03:38:00 -
[4] - Quote
I'm not even AV and I like this.
*Edit* You should change the subject to be more informative, I thought this thread was about someone not getting kill assist points. Please point out that it's about vehicles. |
Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe
Planetary Response Organisation
301
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Posted - 2013.05.15 03:41:00 -
[5] - Quote
I'm pretty sure I've gotten points for assisting on vehicle kills. Admittedly, it's vastly less than you'd get for landing the killing blow, since you don't get any points for the deaths of the occupants. |
Talos Alomar
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
759
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Posted - 2013.05.15 03:46:00 -
[6] - Quote
I support this applied to infantry vs infantry fighting too. Reward the support gunners for keeping the enemies head down. |
Ecshon Autorez
Nova Tech Marines Hephaestus Forge Alliance
20
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Posted - 2013.05.15 03:59:00 -
[7] - Quote
Talos Alomar wrote:I support this applied to infantry vs infantry fighting too. Reward the support gunners for keeping the enemies head down. I don't like the idea of this being applied to infantry. You'll get rewarded when you or someone else kills them.
Against a tank? Yes, those guys can be tough to take down on your own unless you've skilled into high AV gear, but even with low level AV gear you can make one back off of the assault and lick its wounds, that's an AV guy doing their job so they should be rewarded for it. |
Vaerana Myshtana
Bojo's School of the Trades
933
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Posted - 2013.05.15 17:22:00 -
[8] - Quote
Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe wrote:I'm pretty sure I've gotten points for assisting on vehicle kills. Admittedly, it's vastly less than you'd get for landing the killing blow, since you don't get any points for the deaths of the occupants.
You did get a Kill Assist as with killing a merc. However, if some dude inflicts even 1 point of damage with an AR or something, you are no longer the last damager before the killshot.
What this proposal addresses is the idea that AV mercs should be pushing vehicles away from friendlies more than killing them. Under the current system, there is no SP or ISK associated with that at all (like DS pilots).
That's part of the reason that AV players HAVE to get kills even though it's not actually necessary to winning the battle. This proposal relaxes that a bit so that players who do a good job against good players still get something for doing their jobs well. |
Vaerana Myshtana
Bojo's School of the Trades
933
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Posted - 2013.05.15 17:31:00 -
[9] - Quote
Ecshon Autorez wrote:Talos Alomar wrote:I support this applied to infantry vs infantry fighting too. Reward the support gunners for keeping the enemies head down. I don't like the idea of this being applied to infantry. You'll get rewarded when you or someone else kills them. Against a tank? Yes, those guys can be tough to take down on your own unless you've skilled into high AV gear, but even with low level AV gear you can make one back off of the assault and lick its wounds, that's an AV guy doing their job so they should be rewarded for it.
Analyzing by the numbers, though, I don't think applying it to infantry would be game breaking.
A player who pray-and-sprays a lot and only partially wounds a lot of people might get 50 or 100 WP out of this system.
A hardcore protobear might get an additional 250 to 300 WP out of it.
Either way, it's not terribly unbalancing.
However, for AV those points could easily mean the difference between the bottom and the middle or top of the battle report leaderboard. That's a huge difference in SP and a fairly meaningful one in ISK.
In a Skirmish match with just one Advanced HAV (played well) and an Advanced Swarm Launcher, a single good AV player could probably inflict 15,000 HP of damage (or more) without ever killing the tank. That's 350+ WP that they'd never have gotten for doing their job.
I can't count the number of pub matches where I've packed away my AV gear after chasing the HAVs and DSs around the map just so I could hack some stuff- so as to not wind up on the bottom of the board. |
Engvar Selequel
Blades of the Darkmoon
0
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Posted - 2013.06.22 16:59:00 -
[10] - Quote
I would have to agree with this. Anti-armor builds get horribly low numbers a lot of times.My CEO brought down 3 tanks on the opposing team to a fraction of their armor, only to have someone with an AV grenade take the kill, and someone who randomly shot it get the assist. -- Of course, this would also have to address railgun installations, which can have the same effect. They can deal massive amounts of damage and hold a tank or dropship away from the fight, but never actually get the kill. I've had someone go so far as to (as a tank) go head to head with my railgun installation until they were almost gone, then back up behind a building, and recall it, only to redeploy behind the building 3 seconds later and start again.
As far as adding this to infantry, I would have to support that also. I have always played support builds, and as a support build, you do what you can to save your team. My build is a sentinal heavy, HMG, with flux grenades. I hold down hallways, and draw fire from my teammates. It's not uncommon for me to go 2/4 with 35 assists. I drop shields, I eat through the armor of everyone milling about in the hallway trying to get away from me, and someone tosses a grenade, or tears through the group with an assault rifle, landing me a handful of assists, and robbing me of 50% of the WP I should have earned. Meanwhile, a few well placed drop uplinks with an otherwise militia loadout, and I've netted almost 3k WP's... |
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Svartur Bjorn
51
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Posted - 2013.06.22 17:12:00 -
[11] - Quote
Vaerana Myshtana wrote:Problem: The only way for AV players to get WP from doing their job (as opposed to hacking or pretending to be assaults) is to kill vehicles.
Part of the reason that AVers are so dead-set on solo-killing vehicles is because THAT is the only way for AV players to get rewarded. No killshot, no rewards. None. Nada.
If there was some better WP reward for AV other than killshots, that would fix a lot of the metagame balance issue.
I propose an across the board 50 WP for every 2000 HP of damage any player inflicts. The game is now tracking our total damage output, so that should not be a technical obstacle.
For AVers: Pushing vehicles around the map without killing them (arguably our job) would now be rewarding in itself (for SP and ISK). That 50WP per 2000 HP would also mean that the effective rewards for killing Advanced vehicles would be more commensurate with the challenge.
For everyone else: The 50WP per 2000 HP means that players who are doing a lot of assistive shooting but rarely dropping anyone outright are getting rewarded for doing their job as well. It encourages team play and focusing fire because even if you don't get the Kill or the Kill Assist, you are earning towards a WP award.
id be happy with that.
also as some people are risking vehicles in fights i would suggest the same for taking damage aswell. so someone in that dropship/tank that no one can kill gets points for surviving. it promotes people to actually fit tank on their disposable vehicles. if you die the damage bonus rests. |
Master Jaraiya
Ultramarine Corp
289
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Posted - 2013.06.22 17:47:00 -
[12] - Quote
+1 to OP.
This should be applied to installations as well. |
Morphius Khan
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
8
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Posted - 2013.06.23 03:59:00 -
[13] - Quote
This is so needed!!!! I've always wondered why people even bother calling this a team game when people are really only rewarded for the almighty KILL, while others who did the team thing and "assisted" get shafted on WP.
The lack of this kind of metric reinforces solo play in something that's supposed to be team orientated. Do people still play in teams? Ye,s they do. Would more people play socially if this changes? Would this seem adequately rewarding for team players if we had something like this? I think the answer is Yes to both!!!
Numbers on rewards may be off with this system but balance away! |
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