DUST Search - [Suggestion] Caldari vs Gallente

BL4CKST4R wrote:

AmlSeb wrote:

Well, I was a bit bored so I created a small table that compares the "strongest" ship types in EVE per race. There you can see the advantages of the races clearly.
And before anybody is complaining that I added drone cap and no passive armor repairing: Drones are going to be in DUST and there is no passive armor repairing in EVE.

You can find it here

There is a armor repairer for EVE ships, but they are much slower than Shield repairers, but they restore more HP than a Shield repairer, booster. Also in EVE the speed reduction is not negligible but you have to stack more than one to be super slow, in Dust even one Armor plate is enough to slow you down considerably, and there are skills to reduce the armor penalty in EVE, on top of that the Gallente ships are faster than the Caldari ships and a majority of the Amarr ships so they can shrug of this penalty before becoming slower by stacking more armor, not saying that Gallente ships are any better than Caldari and Amarr ships since they can still shield tank very well.

Even in EVE shield tanking comes out superior to armor tanking, mostly because shield tanking does not incur penalties and you can get more out of a shield than an armor plate because of the fast recharge and no penalties. Armor tanking recharges extremely slow and it reduces your speed so its more for keeping you alive in the frontlines until you die, and shield tanking is for more active staying alive to get more kills.

Yeah I am not limited to my suit choice I can always choose to use a Caldari suit but I picked a Gallente because I like how their ships in EVE and I like the lore behind them, my personal preference should not make me under powered or at least less competitive when it comes to actual battles.

Million ISK question is, how to balance shield tanking and armor tanking without removing the penalties, since a removal will make super tanks? My answer, buff the speed of armor inclined races, keep the penalties, and give armor inclined races a passive armor repair.

On a side not if, when, drones are added the Gallente better get a bonus to Drone usage.

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BL4CKST4R WarRavens Orion Empire 48	Posted - 2013.05.13 04:56:00 - [1] - Quote This isn't a who is better thread, honestly this is just a comment and a suggestion. I am a Gallente out of choice, I am trying to be as unbiased as possible. Ironically my brother is a Caldari. I have seen all this fighting and crying, me included, about the Caldari and their ability to be the best tanks because they can stack Shield extenders better than any other race with little to no penalty. This is from the perspective of infantry units, now if you look at the tanks you can see that the Caldari tank can effectively stack Shields but not so much armor, and the Gallente tank can effectively stack armor but not shields. The reason being is because the Gallente Tank is so much faster than a Caldari Tank so the movement penalty from armor stacking will actually even it out with a equally with a Caldari Tank in defense and speed. So if we apply this to infantry units wouldn't it make sense that the Gallente suit should be a bit faster to balance it out when both classes try to build themselves defensively. In addition it would add choice for the Gallente to sacrifice speed for a bit more defense. I think the Gallente suit should be X% faster while balancing the effectiveness of Armor stacking with the Gallente % bonus in mind. Another thought along with the speed buff is to give the Gallente a passive 5 hp/s on armor, while all other suits get 1 hp/s. The thought behind this is that a Gallente will be able to effectively take the same amount of hits that a Caldari can and have equal speed or give us the ability to be a bit faster by sacrificing our survivability, and give us essentially the same rate of Total HP regeneration.Also I think Amarr heavies should get a -6% speed penalty reduction per level on armor so they can Tank better like they are meant to. Below I did some comparisons with a 3% speed boost to the Gallente. It looks good end game with very balanced stats and the same amount of Slots left unused, but early game it favors to the Gallente and the Gallente do not have to invest as much SP to be equal to the Caldari, at the same time the Caldari do not have to spend anything in Armor. I honestly cannot think of a way to balance it in the beginning, and if the devs were trying to make the Gallente faster when making Uprising I think this is the problem they came across. Its not so much a problem with Tanks because that have so much Total HP that small numbers are negligible. Assault ck.0 (Caldari) Level 5 Suit 4 High-powered Module --- Complex Shield extender x 4 3 Low-Powered Module --- Shield - 474 Armor - 120 Total - 594 Speed 5.0 m/s Assault ck.0 (Gallente) Level 5 Suit 3 High-Powered Module --- Complex Shield extender x 3 4 Low-Powered Module --- Basic Armor plates x 1 Shield - 318 Armor - 276 Total - 594 Speed 5.0 m/s Assault C-1 (Caldari) Level 1 Suit 2 High-powered Module --- Complex Shield extender x 2 2 Low-Powered Module --- Shield - 342 Armor - 120 Total - 462 Speed 5.0 m/s 2 High-Powered Module --- Basic Shield extender x 2 2 Low-Powered Module --- Shield - 254 Armor - 120 Total - 374 Assault G-1 (Gallente) Level 1 Suit 1 High-Powered Module --- Complex Shield extender x 1 3 Low-Powered Module --- Basic Armor plates x 1 Shield - 186 Armor - 276 Total - 462 Speed 5.0 m/s 1 High-Powered Module --- Basic Shield extender x 1 3 Low-Powered Module --- Basic Armor plates x 1 Shield - 144 Armor - 276 Total - 420
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 162	Posted - 2013.05.13 05:13:00 - [2] - Quote Perhaps a a reduction in armor speed penalty would be a better passive for the Gallente?
BL4CKST4R WarRavens Orion Empire 48	Posted - 2013.05.13 05:17:00 - [3] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: Perhaps a a reduction in armor speed penalty would be a better passive for the Gallente? I thought about that but I think it should be for all gallente suits instead of a passive by leveling up skills. All races have their little quirks that makes them unique.
Liam Helm OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1	Posted - 2013.05.13 05:28:00 - [4] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Zeylon Rho wrote: Perhaps a a reduction in armor speed penalty would be a better passive for the Gallente? I thought about that but I think it should be for all gallente suits instead of a passive by leveling up skills. All races have their little quirks that makes them unique. the gallente perk is armor and their ability to use hybrid weaponary
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 795	Posted - 2013.05.13 05:30:00 - [5] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: Perhaps a a reduction in armor speed penalty would be a better passive for the Gallente? Lore and battle philosophy wise, the Gallente suits need a higher armor regen like a built in +5hp/s in all their suits. They're supposed to be mobile low armor high regeneration for hit and run tactics.
BL4CKST4R WarRavens Orion Empire 48	Posted - 2013.05.13 05:34:00 - [6] - Quote Liam Helm wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: Zeylon Rho wrote: Perhaps a a reduction in armor speed penalty would be a better passive for the Gallente? I thought about that but I think it should be for all gallente suits instead of a passive by leveling up skills. All races have their little quirks that makes them unique. the gallente perk is armor and their ability to use hybrid weaponary Yes but at the moment using armor is more of a sacrifice than a bonus, even for a race that "specializes" in its use, and any class can use hybrid weaponry.
BL4CKST4R WarRavens Orion Empire 48	Posted - 2013.05.13 05:37:00 - [7] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Zeylon Rho wrote: Perhaps a a reduction in armor speed penalty would be a better passive for the Gallente? Lore and battle philosophy wise, the Gallente suits need a higher armor regen like a built in +5hp/s in all their suits. They're supposed to be mobile low armor high regeneration for hit and run tactics. Yea the Gallente are the High Risk, High Reward type, even with high armor they still boast a high risk since armor regens so freaking slow.
AmlSeb Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2013.05.13 08:02:00 - [8] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Zeylon Rho wrote: Perhaps a a reduction in armor speed penalty would be a better passive for the Gallente? Lore and battle philosophy wise, the Gallente suits need a higher armor regen like a built in +5hp/s in all their suits. They're supposed to be mobile low armor high regeneration for hit and run tactics. Your wrong. If CCP goes on like in EVE then Gallente will have better drone abilities and Minmatar will be hit and run.
J'Hiera Algintal Core Gallente Federation 3	Posted - 2013.05.13 08:09:00 - [9] - Quote Gallente needs the passive Assault Spec skill to be +1 HP armor regen per level, not shield recharge.
Martin0 Brancaleone Maphia Clan Corporation CRONOS. 278	Posted - 2013.05.13 09:13:00 - [10] - Quote I kill proto caldar assault with standard stuff. Start using flux grenades and caldari logis and assaults will cry like childs.

BL4CKST4R WarRavens Orion Empire 48	Posted - 2013.05.13 10:53:00 - [11] - Quote Martin0 Brancaleone wrote: I kill proto caldar assault with standard stuff. Start using flux grenades and caldari logis and assaults will cry like childs. Killing them isn't a problem, its just that they can have a lot more defense than other classes without a penalty, and you can flux them but all they have to do is hide for a couple of seconds and have all their shields back.
AmlSeb Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2013.05.13 13:37:00 - [12] - Quote Well, I was a bit bored so I created a small table that compares the "strongest" ship types in EVE per race. There you can see the advantages of the races clearly. And before anybody is complaining that I added drone cap and no passive armor repairing: Drones are going to be in DUST and there is no passive armor repairing in EVE. You can find it here
BL4CKST4R WarRavens Orion Empire 48	Posted - 2013.05.13 17:27:00 - [13] - Quote AmlSeb wrote: Well, I was a bit bored so I created a small table that compares the "strongest" ship types in EVE per race. There you can see the advantages of the races clearly. And before anybody is complaining that I added drone cap and no passive armor repairing: Drones are going to be in DUST and there is no passive armor repairing in EVE. You can find it here There is a armor repairer for EVE ships but they are much slower than Shield repairers but in the long run the Armor repairers restore MORE HP than a Shield repairer, booster. Also in EVE the speed reduction isn't that bad and there are skills to further reduce the armor penalty, on top of that the Gallente ships are faster than the Caldari ships and a majority of the Amarr ships so they can shrug of this penalty before becoming slower by stacking more armor, not saying that Gallente ships are any better than Caldari and Amarr ships since they can still shield tank very well. Even in EVE shield tanking comes out superior to armor tanking, mostly because shield tanking does not incur penalties and you can get more out of a shield than an armor plate because of the fast recharge and no penalties. Armor tanking recharges extremely slow and it reduces your speed so its more for keeping you alive in the frontlines until you die, and shield tanking is for more active staying alive to get more kills. On a side not if, when, drones are added the Gallente better get a bonus to Drone usage.
BL4CKST4R WarRavens Orion Empire 48	Posted - 2013.05.13 17:43:00 - [14] - Quote J'Hiera wrote: Gallente needs the passive Assault Spec skill to be +1 HP armor regen per level, not shield recharge. Yes this is silly, specially since the Gallente get a 20 hp/s and the Caldari get a 25 hp/s ontop of being the best at shield tanking.
AmlSeb Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2013.05.14 11:48:00 - [15] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: AmlSeb wrote: Well, I was a bit bored so I created a small table that compares the "strongest" ship types in EVE per race. There you can see the advantages of the races clearly. And before anybody is complaining that I added drone cap and no passive armor repairing: Drones are going to be in DUST and there is no passive armor repairing in EVE. You can find it here There is a armor repairer for EVE ships, but they are much slower than Shield repairers, but they restore more HP than a Shield repairer, booster. Also in EVE the speed reduction is not negligible but you have to stack more than one to be super slow, in Dust even one Armor plate is enough to slow you down considerably, and there are skills to reduce the armor penalty in EVE, on top of that the Gallente ships are faster than the Caldari ships and a majority of the Amarr ships so they can shrug of this penalty before becoming slower by stacking more armor, not saying that Gallente ships are any better than Caldari and Amarr ships since they can still shield tank very well. Even in EVE shield tanking comes out superior to armor tanking, mostly because shield tanking does not incur penalties and you can get more out of a shield than an armor plate because of the fast recharge and no penalties. Armor tanking recharges extremely slow and it reduces your speed so its more for keeping you alive in the frontlines until you die, and shield tanking is for more active staying alive to get more kills. Yeah I am not limited to my suit choice I can always choose to use a Caldari suit but I picked a Gallente because I like how their ships in EVE and I like the lore behind them, my personal preference should not make me under powered or at least less competitive when it comes to actual battles. Million ISK question is, how to balance shield tanking and armor tanking without removing the penalties, since a removal will make super tanks? My answer, buff the speed of armor inclined races, keep the penalties, and give armor inclined races a passive armor repair. On a side not if, when, drones are added the Gallente better get a bonus to Drone usage. To sum it up: If you want to go solo you are right now better done with shield tanking, if you want to play together with your corp and have one to repair you choose armor tanking.


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