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Keyser Soze VerbalKint
IMPSwarm
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Posted - 2013.05.12 19:57:00 -
[1] - Quote
slypie11 wrote:NeoWraith Acedia wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Because the caldari logistics is not the only problem, its all four of them being > assaults. If this is what one of our CPM thinks, then it be best to start preparing yourselves fellow logis, CCP's going to bring down Mjolnir any day now. Ignoring the fact that all complaints so far have been about the Caldari logi and no person has yet to actually give good reasons for why all Logis are in need of a nerf.  While not all logis are OP, the caldari one is. It has more CPU/PG than any other assault, slightly lower base hp that can easily be overcome with all the extra slots it has, tons of equipments slots, and with its skills, high shield regeneration.
SR may make that whole argument moot.
Moreover dropping/reducing the racial bonus is more than enough to fix the suit. The major issue isnt the slots but that those high slots go farther because you can put on less SE modules for the same effect you can get from an Assault suit with more SE modules fitted. Thats what makes the Caldari logi so effective. If that didnt exist we wouldnt be even having this discussion.
Talking to anyone who runs Caldari logi as slayer and the answer is uniformly im giving up a sidearm and 3/10 of movement speed for added CPU/PG and i can overcome the decrease in tank b/w the suits with the added high slots and the racial bonus.
The lowering CPU/PG as a detterant wrecks the versatility of the suit, lowering the movement makes them a sitting duck and they are relatively slower already compared to other logi suits(except amarr). Lowering the racial bonus does nothing to alter the suit but makes it harder to tank to extremely high levels.
25% bonus to tank is HUGE, anyone who doesnt see this as the source of problem simply is fooling themselves. Instead ppl look to indirectly limit it by reducing slots or CPU/PG so you cant fit as much but the bonus still stands so it still overcomes the limitation granted less effectively. Instead keep the versatiltiy of the suits and gut the bonus.
As for IWS, i dont think him expressing his opinion is that big a deal. Its only a big deal if that opinion biases him from other viewpoints or actively seeks to get CCP to make changes based on his viewpoint.
Whether he is wrong or right is irrelevant. I think any talk about balance issues by the CPM to CCP behind closed doors is a very bad precedent and one i dont want CPM members getting into the habit of doing. While we need them to filter important issues to present to CCP i never want them talking about balance issues with CCP without CCP having direct conversations with us on these things.
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Keyser Soze VerbalKint
IMPSwarm
Negative-Feedback
329
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Posted - 2013.05.12 22:58:00 -
[2] - Quote
Harkon Vysarii wrote:NeoWraith Acedia wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Because the caldari logistics is not the only problem, its all four of them being > assaults. If this is what one of our CPM thinks, then it be best to start preparing yourselves fellow logis, CCP's going to bring down Mjolnir any day now. Ignoring the fact that all complaints so far have been about the Caldari logi and no person has yet to actually give good reasons for why all Logis are in need of a nerf. I keep saying Logis dont need a nerf they just need less high/ low slots.......wait but before you stick the long arm of trolling down my throat..... GIVE THEM SPECIALISED MED SLOTS UNIQUE TO THEIR SUIT that allow them to augment their repair, scan, rezing, hacking, and other passive skills so Logis who do want to play support now can do so with enhancements to their game, and those logis who want to run as "Assault +1's" cant nearly tank so much as they used to.
No because the logi function isnt to be just a medic class. Its versatility also allows it freedom with all those unused modules like hacking mods and scanning systems.
The suits versatility is balanced by its ability to tank and output DPS. It doesnt need less slots or less pg/cpu. The minmatar vk.1 had 11 total slots and the vk.o had 12. It still worked fine because you could only get so much tank on them.
Fact is the ONLY logi that poses a tanking threat is the CALDARI Logi. Take aways its +25% bonus to SE which gets stacked onto the +10% from the SE skill itself and it becomes clear why a 5 high slot logi suit can begin to tank so crazily.
Dropping it down to even just 10% or replacing it altogether with another support related bonus. Completely balances the suit. Stop using the CALDARI Logi as the strawman that all Logis are OP. And look at the suit as a whole and recognize it isnt the modules but that you are getting more mileage out of those modules in the form of tanking that makes the CALDARI LOGI so attractive to slayers and you can easily rectify the solution.
All this added nonsense is going to result in less modules AND an elimination of the racial bonus from the Caldari logi for something utter useless.
Man for all you medic role players perhaps the first rule of the hippocratic oath will serve you well here.
FIRST DO NO HARM!!! |
Keyser Soze VerbalKint
IMPSwarm
Negative-Feedback
329
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Posted - 2013.05.12 22:59:00 -
[3] - Quote
Nova Knife wrote:NeoWraith Acedia wrote:If this is what one of our CPM thinks, then it be best to start preparing yourselves fellow logis, CCP's going to bring down Mjolnir any day now. Ignoring the fact that all complaints so far have been about the Caldari logi and no person has yet to actually give good reasons for why all Logis are in need of a nerf. Don't worry. It'll be a cold day in hell before I see the rest of the CPM pushing for balance specific balance changes beyond drawing attention to things that are obviously broken. This is not something we are suited for and in every situation it's better to point CCP to threads on the subjects than to simply say "Sup CCP, make this stat X cause we are CPM" That's not what the CPM is there for, and it's not what we're going to do. Balance is best left to people who actually understand the concept of fair and objective use... Which is not the case for most of the CPM. If a nerf comes it's because the community was spamming about it and that's all we had to link to CCP. Just sayin'
just saying many ppl have given sharp and focused counter debate to the logis are OP mantra. While others speak in conjecture i know the Logis are fine camp have used data and facts to support their premise and not gotten swayed by well everyone is using it so it must be OP.
Perception =\= Reality. |
Keyser Soze VerbalKint
IMPSwarm
Negative-Feedback
331
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Posted - 2013.05.12 23:14:00 -
[4] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:We've been doing this nerf witch hunt for 2 years. Look at how ****ed up Dust 514 is right now. Isn't it time we did something different. Logis are where they need to be and I wish I could meet Remnant and shake his hand. After the 14th, watch how many "Nerf the Scrambler Rifle!" threads pop up. IWS claimed that after this happens, players are going to move to the Gallente logi and go ham with that. My question is, with what SP? It's starting to actually make sense why the Logis are such an SP sink in the first place.
CCP, you magnificent bastards. You planned this all along, didn't you?
Moreover anyone who thinks the gallente logi is the better choice of slayer logi clearly hasn't used a minmatar logi. The threads that pop up once vk.1s are back are going to induce so much rage.
Future prediction of forum threads
Logi mk.1 is a better slayer than all assault suits |
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