Joseph Ridgeson
WarRavens
Orion Empire
108
   |
Posted - 2013.05.12 10:03:00 -
[1] - Quote
TL;DR: Vehicles, specifically Dropships and Tanks cannot equip Standard Modules and Standard Turrets with use of PG boosters.
(Yes it is a wall of text. Yes, I was bored out of my mind and decided to voice my opinion on the forum rather than do something productive with my life  )
One of the principles that I fully believe the game operates on is "Standard chassis can fit Standard modules." You can easily see this with Dropsuits. Lets take the Caldari Medium Frame with zero skills. It can fit:
2 Shield Extenders
Assault Rifle
Scrambler Pistol or Submachine Gun
Locus Grenades
Nanohive
2 Plates / 2 Regulators, or a mix of the two (they have the same requirements)
That requires no skills in Engineering or Electronics to make possible, only that the gear be useable. Some of it can even be Militia, though not too much.
The Militia Caldari suit can also fit Militia everything too, though it will not be able to have a Sidearm if EVERYTHING is Militia. Not too shabby.
When it comes to Advanced Suits, things get a little different. The level 3 Advanced Caldari Frame has 210 CPU and 42 Powergrid. Here's the breakdown:
Advanced Assault Rifle: 47 / 6
3 Advanced Shield Extenders: 108 / 18
Advanced Nanohive: 42 / 7
2 Shield Regulators: 48 / 14
Advanced Locus: 18 / 3
No Side Arm as it will not fit
So the total is 263 CPU and 48 PG. At this point, the Electronics and Engineering skill have to be applied. Let's see:
Level 5 Engineering and Electronics gets us: 262.5 CPU and 52.5. Depending how the game rounds, no problem. But in actuality, it is no problem anyway as between Light Weapon Operation reducing Light Weapon CPU usage by 3% per level (it has to be at least level 1 to get AR's) and Dropsuit Upgrades (+1% CPU and PG per level) having to be at least 2 (I think) to get Nanocircuitry, your golden. Using a Sidearm requires the player to use lower level modules in certain areas but it can be fitted, if you so require.
So it seems that Basic Suits can wear all Basic/Militia Modules with zero skills and be totally fine and Advanced Suits with all Advanced Modules with higher level Support Skills. Higher level support skills can also be used to allow a player to use some Advanced Modules on Standard Suits, such as my 'Raven' Assault having a GLU/GEK Assault Rifle.
Vehicles... do not work this way. Let's run some of these numbers, assuming "Standard on Standard" with Dropships and Tanks. First, the Myron Caldari Dropship:
255 CPU / 400 PG
4 High
2 Low
2 Turrets
So the Turrets have to be filled first, as no vehicle can be called without full turrets. These are the numbers:
Rail: 15 / 80
Blaster: 8 / 100
Missile: 17 / 70
Assuming both are the same:
Rails: 30 / 160
Blasters: 16 / 200
Missiles: 34 / 140
For the High Slots, I have usually seen Extender, Booster, Resistance, and an Afterburner to get out of Dodge when the cards don't fall in your favor. So, let's play:
Light Shield Extender: 55 / 80
Flat Shield Resistance: 35 / 0
Light Shield Booster: 60 / 80
Afterburner: 38 / 14.
Adding the Basic Highs together, you get: 188 CPU / 304 PG
We have a problem. It is impossible to fit as no matter what Turret is used, the PG will be overcapped. So let's throw in the two Power Expansion Units. With the stacking penalty adding 18.691%, you get 474.764 PG (call it 475). So it is possible to use Railguns and Missiles but not Blasters unless Supplemental modules are used. Supplemental modules are Meta Level 2 modules that use less PG/CPU but give a greatly reduced benefit. The idea of possibly having some Militia gear in place of the Basic gear to reduce SP or ISK cost is quite naive with the current patch.
So the Myron has no low Slots as they pretty much read "Place Powergrid Expansion Modules here." What about the Gunnlogi?
330 CPU / 1805 PG
Since I have played this game before, let's just state what every Tank needs: Turrets, Flat Health, and a way of Regaining that Health. Virtually every Tank, aside from something with a special role, will follow this.
Large Turrets:
Rail: 60 / 900
Missile: 65 / 800
Blaster: 40 / 1,000
Total price for keeping all the same:
Rails: 90 / 1,060
Missiles: 99 / 940
Blasters: 56 / 1,200
Extender: 75 / 680
Booster: 80 / 640
Right there, we run into the same problem with the dropship. No matter what, we are out of PG. The lowest possible combination with Missiles and Supplemental modules ends with 239 CPU / 1996 PG. Again, Power Expanding Modules are necessitated. It is basically the same thing with Tanks: 180 MM Plate + Repairer + Turrets puts them over the line.
It is even worse for Armor Tanks as the lower slots are the same slots that give them their Tankiness. This results in either having to use Modules meant for LAV's/Dropships or throwing in a Power Expansion Module. I run or used to run Armor Tanks. This change cripples their defense to ludicrousness. The real kicker is that it is only possible to increase Vehicle Powergrid by 5% with skills.
Vehicles HAVE to use Power Expansion Modules, which is sad. For Dropsuits, PG/CPU boosters are only used if the person wants to put in higher level modules in a suit OR they lack Engineering/Electronics. There is nothing a Vehicle user can do to use Standard on Standard without adding in PG extenders. I believe this to be completely unfair.
Be well.
|
Joseph Ridgeson
WarRavens
Orion Empire
117
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 22:31:00 -
[2] - Quote
Belendur Balfour wrote:They need to change the vehicle engineering skill back to a 5% per level buff to powergrid, that is what the skill does for dropsuits and what it does in EVE, there is no good reason that I can see that they changed it to reduce power upgrade modules CPU by 5% per level
Add that skill back in the way it is supposed to be and you should be good
However, Myron ang Gunloggi are Caldari, and so Blaster(high Powergrid needs low CPU) should not be used, Caldari are Rail/Missle guys, both take less Powergrid and more CPU which is what the Caldari ships have
I say again though Engineering skill SHOULD give a 5% Powergrid bonus per level
I choose Blasters because those have been the "Infantry Killers" for the longest time now. I have not tried the new missiles and am not sure if they work well against Infantry. Trying to swivel a Railgun to hit small, fast moving Infantry is extremely difficult.
Aye, the Vehicle Engineering actually doing what it originally said it did (still annoyed I burned 621k on a useless skill  ) would fix the problem. My original Tank had basic Blasters with the best Plate + Repairer (which took less CPU/PG then the basic ones). It was a close fit with maxed Engineering but it worked. When I started Uprising I noticed that instead of it being a nice thing to have maxed Engineering, it was a necessity. Getting it to 5 for the 25% extra PG, even with the lowered base, would allow me to fit Basic on Basic.
I am fine with Tanks HAVING to max Support Skills to build what they want, or even being able to be Tanky enough to be a true HAV; it makes it much harder for new players to get into Tanks but they could always use different modules. However, when someone with 5 million+ into Tanks cannot make a Tank without having to put in LAV/Dropship Modules or PG modules, that is a problem. For Armor Tanks, imagine how crippling this is. Shield Tank's Low Slots are mostly used for Power Diagnostic Units or Ballistic/Sink Modules. Armor need those Low Slots to armor themselves.
Again, I believe this to be unfair.
Be well. |