DUST Search - New racial bonus ideas

Oswald Rehnquist wrote:

ZDub 303 wrote:

I guess its just time for me to roll assault then. I enjoyed being able to actually play on the frontline with my assault buddies while still providing some support via equipment. But clearly everyone wants to make sure logis get nothing but a few token kill steals in a game.

It was a good run, but c'est la vie. All I can hope is that remnant makes these changes after 1.4... so I can hopefully be close to the 2.5 mil needed to run an assault suit. Gonna be very interesting to see what people think if assaults get a 10% damage bonus, pretty sure you won't see many logis after that.

Sounds more like your a slayer at heart, which is fine but the suits should have some slight role division. If logis are 1 to 1 with assaults stat wise, losing only in the stat they don't boost (hp, speed, or damage) while having more equipment slots makes Assaults question their role. I think this is also reflected by the fact that this is probably one of the few games where the "support" role was was populated by close to half of the player population, because it was an assault with slightly lower stats and more equipment slots. Essentially no logi is leaving logi, just assaults.

Back in Beta where we scouts were able to effectively speed tank, we got populated by a lot of assaults and had the nerf hammer smack us hard. A suggesting of buffing assaults through racials is a much more beneficial method for give assaults their role vs nerfing logis into our current status.


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ZDub 303 Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 98	Posted - 2013.05.12 03:24:00 - [1] - Quote Side arm clip capacity is so lackluster for 3.1 million exp.. I'd be more interested in 2% light weapon reload speed per level instead.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 706	Posted - 2013.07.09 04:11:00 - [2] - Quote I didn't read all seven pages... but please don't kill logis by removing the EHP bonus... esp if assault gets 10% damage. All logis should have an EHP bonus. Logi Bonus: 5% CPU/PG reduction per level Caldari: 5% Shield extenders Gallente: 5% armor plating amarr: 3%/3% shield/armor minmatar: 2%/2% shield/armor Something like the above here would make much more sense.. logis are slow and inherently weaker... give them the option to go all out hp, since we will be sacrificing 10% damage + combat oriented bonuses anyways. If we need to, we can just straight put passive regen on certain logi suits. Like 2HP/s - Caldari, 3HP/s - Minmatar 4HP/s - Amarr 5HP/s - Gallente Scout Dropsuit Bonus would make much more sense if it was something like 3% EWAR and Biotics module efficacy or 5% of one or the other. Profile dampening is meh... if they need it.. just give them a lower base profile.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 707	Posted - 2013.07.09 05:16:00 - [3] - Quote all im gonna say is... if they give cal logis that worthless nanohive bonus, then they better offer a respec. Cal Logi is not OP... use it in PC and you'll find it barely holds it own. If anything the other logi classes are UP. Or if you insist we recieve worthless equipment bonuses, then we need at least equal base hp to assault suits. Otherwise logis are just free WPs to assaults. and I mean sacrifice 10% damage by going logi instead of assault. Opportunity cost.. etc etc.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 725	Posted - 2013.07.09 16:59:00 - [4] - Quote hackerzilla wrote: I understand people think that Logi Cladari is OP but 10% nanite ussuage per level sucks like seriously thats nerfing it to hell At least someone understands. Do you have proto nanohives logi bro? You must... at which point you would have to understand there is never a need for a nanohive bonus, its pretty much worthless. Some people want to support their team while still actually having the ability to be on the front line. Cal logi is perfect for what it does. It doesn't replace a real heavy in the least. It gets roflstomped by real assaults already. It has just enough utility to actually be viable in PC. If anything, the other logi classes are kind of a joke atm. Like I said.. if you wanna take away the logi survivabiltiy bonus, then offer a respec. Taking away 9 weeks of SP because you felt like absolutely destroying a specific playstyle is downright insulting. I ran min logi with my first respec and I hated it... the suit was a complete POS. Cal logi has just enough hp bonus to compensate for its poor movement and lower base hp. If these are the kind of bonuses they want to put in the game, then please let me respec into assault.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 754	Posted - 2013.07.09 18:12:00 - [5] - Quote Vermaak Doe wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: hackerzilla wrote: I understand people think that Logi Cladari is OP but 10% nanite ussuage per level sucks like seriously thats nerfing it to hell At least someone understands. Do you have proto nanohives logi bro? You must... at which point you would have to understand there is never a need for a nanohive bonus, its pretty much worthless. Some people want to support their team while still actually having the ability to be on the front line. Cal logi is perfect for what it does. It doesn't replace a real heavy in the least. It gets roflstomped by real assaults already. It has just enough utility to actually be viable in PC. If anything, the other logi classes are kind of a joke atm. Like I said.. if you wanna take away the logi survivabiltiy bonus, then offer a respec. Taking away 9 weeks of SP because you felt like absolutely destroying a specific playstyle is downright insulting. I ran min logi with my first respec and I hated it... the suit was a complete POS. Cal logi has just enough hp bonus to compensate for its poor movement and lower base hp. If these are the kind of bonuses they want to put in the game, then please let me respec into assault. Plenty of weapons have been altered without a respec, there shouldn't be a difference for an overpowered suit. the suit isnt overpowered at all, other logi classes just need comparable bonuses. otherwise its just nerfing the whole logi line into the ground.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 776	Posted - 2013.07.09 19:46:00 - [6] - Quote Muud Kipz wrote: Also, yes, the CaLogi suit IS overpowered. Math numbers wise, it is, even just in terms of base stats without specialization bonuses. Compare it to the Amarr proto logi- the CaLogi suit loses the sidearm slot and 30 total base HP (though I would argue that 180/90 base is better than 120/180) and gains... hmm... almost 5% faster move speed, 18 PG, -2 seconds of shield recharge delay, 2 high slots and 1 low slot. That's ignoring the massive disparity in their bonuses, which doesn't need discussion here. Amarr logi is underpowered because it lacks a combat relevant racial bonus and comparable CPU/PG to all of the other logistics classes. Doesn't mean the Cal Logi is OP, it just means its the only logi that can actually hold its own in combat. And these changes propose adding 10% more damage to assaults (which I think is great idea). How do you think the logi is going to hold up then without EHP racial modifications? In any sort of competitive play... it wont. Not at all. It'll be that poor sucker that mistakenly spec'd into a class cause he thought he could support the team. forgetting that anything but drop uplinks and the occasional triage nanohive is irrelevant in PC. With Logi Bros proposed changes, the logi will literally have no place in PC, and corps will be forced to take them because some of their core players will have mistakenly spec'd into that suit and have no way of climbing out. meanwhile an assault suit with proto uplinks will do the same job that logi's are sort of meant for now.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 787	Posted - 2013.07.09 20:29:00 - [7] - Quote mikegunnz wrote: I think the point Zdub, is that if you want to be a "frontline" guy that can occasionally rep or revive someone, you can be an assault with a rep tool or injector. It'll force you to make a compromise. If you choose to be logi, in theory you're choosing to be the repper and reviver, and are making a sacrifice to your "frontline" combat ability. The Cal Logi sort of doesn't make that compromise. It's basically just as good a combat piece as any assault. (arguably better because of it's slot count and higher CPU/PG) You're saying that the other Logi suits are UP, but the others are saying (and I agree) that the Cal Logi suit is prob OP, when you think about what the intended role of Logi class is supposed to be. you obv don't play in PC. In pubs... yeah you might be right.. but in PC cal logis get trashed by good assault players. I can only imagine how bad it is for 'non-cal' logis. I guess I'm just trying to keep logi players somewhat viable in PC as I'm not ready for 9 weeks of grinding to get proto assault. Im curious though; what is the intended role of a logi? To sit behind the front lines with a rep tool? With these new changes logis will be severly inferior in combat. assault players will have higher base health, 10% more damage, and much higher movement speed. 1v1 with equal skills logis wont stand a chance... they'll just be free WPs. Should logis never engage in combat? is that their 'purpose'...?
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 834	Posted - 2013.07.10 13:24:00 - [8] - Quote I guess its just time for me to roll assault then. I enjoyed being able to actually play on the frontline with my assault buddies while still providing some support via equipment. But clearly everyone wants to make sure logis get nothing but a few token kill steals in a game. It was a good run, but c'est la vie. All I can hope is that remnant makes these changes after 1.4... so I can hopefully be close to the 2.5 mil needed to run an assault suit. Gonna be very interesting to see what people think if assaults get a 10% damage bonus, pretty sure you won't see many logis after that.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 836	Posted - 2013.07.10 14:01:00 - [9] - Quote Muud Kipz wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: I guess its just time for me to roll assault then. I enjoyed being able to actually play on the frontline with my assault buddies while still providing some support via equipment. But clearly everyone wants to make sure logis get nothing but a few token kill steals in a game. It was a good run, but c'est la vie. All I can hope is that remnant makes these changes after 1.4... so I can hopefully be close to the 2.5 mil needed to run an assault suit. Gonna be very interesting to see what people think if assaults get a 10% damage bonus, pretty sure you won't see many logis after that. Pffft come on, a 10% damage gap is not insurmountable, even in the average 1v1 firefight. Surely, at some point, you've killed an opponent with more than 10% of your health remaining. Skill would be the determining factor, and that's a good thing. But for the sake of argument, let's say you're right and that 10% effectiveness gap WILL crush the logi class. That argument works just as well in reverse, except right now and not theoretically: a proto Cal assault running up against a proto Cal logi leaves the assault with no damage advantage and a significant tank disadvantage due to the Cal logi's shield bonuses and additional slots. A little bit of strafe speed on the assault's side does not sufficiently compensate for this. It sounds to me like someone just wants to keep their FOTM. Like I said... you obviously don't play in PC. I'm going to assume this is a main posting as you're not in an NPC corp. So.. Yeah sure I can roflstomp militia noobs all day. Pit my proto cal logi with a duvolle against a militia assault with a militia AR and its no contest. but against a skilled assault player I can only win maybe a third of my battles? Most battles come down to running out of LW ammo, I have to reload and he swaps to sidearm and im dead. I don't think you understand what losing ~15% of my health and going against someone with 10% more damage will do. Already in PC its not a good idea to have more than two actual logis, as their relative combat inefficacy brings down the team. With the changes proposed in the OP, logis just become a severe liability. They become a token fit you swap into every other death to put up more uplinks and nanohives before you swap back to assault. The only way I can see logi's still being useful in PC is if you bring the EHP buff to all logi classes. I think you underestimate what 10% damage will do... that's the difference between adv and proto weapons. I dunno.. it just seems to me, that since this is a shooter.. logis might want to get up and shoot people too... but if 2 equipment slots is going to cost me a sidearm, 10% move speed, and 10% damage... its not worth it to me. But maybe I was always an assault player and shouldn't have spec'd logi in the first place.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 855	Posted - 2013.07.11 14:46:00 - [10] - Quote Oswald Rehnquist wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: I guess its just time for me to roll assault then. I enjoyed being able to actually play on the frontline with my assault buddies while still providing some support via equipment. But clearly everyone wants to make sure logis get nothing but a few token kill steals in a game. It was a good run, but c'est la vie. All I can hope is that remnant makes these changes after 1.4... so I can hopefully be close to the 2.5 mil needed to run an assault suit. Gonna be very interesting to see what people think if assaults get a 10% damage bonus, pretty sure you won't see many logis after that. Sounds more like your a slayer at heart, which is fine but the suits should have some slight role division. If logis are 1 to 1 with assaults stat wise, losing only in the stat they don't boost (hp, speed, or damage) while having more equipment slots makes Assaults question their role. I think this is also reflected by the fact that this is probably one of the few games where the "support" role was was populated by close to half of the player population, because it was an assault with slightly lower stats and more equipment slots. Essentially no logi is leaving logi, just assaults. Back in Beta where we scouts were able to effectively speed tank, we got populated by a lot of assaults and had the nerf hammer smack us hard. A suggesting of buffing assaults through racials is a much more beneficial method for give assaults their role vs nerfing logis into our current status. I enjoy actually playing support to a squad... but come on... its a shooter game. I think most of us want to shoot our gun.. no? I understand there are some true die hard logis out there who would prefer if their primary weapon was a repair tool so they could run another piece of equipment... but I can't imagine that is the play style they were going for. In PS2 I could see that play style working really well, but in a 16v16 shooter... someone who plays like that is generally just gimping their team by taking a gun off the field. I just don't want to have to run every time I see a proto assault cause I know its going to end in death... that just sounds sad Seems like PC is going to end up being completely assault/heavy though eventually anyways... there's no place for true logis in PC when the action is too intense to even bother trying to revive people and nobody sits still enough for reps. Assaults spawning in with 50% uplinks and 50% nanohives can do the job so much better. I guess thats the reason im pushing for the cal logi to remain as it is and to bring up other logis to its level, instead of nerfing cal logi down so its forced to play 'true logi'. I know it doesn't seem like it in pubs, when people like me are running around pubstomping... but I played b-series logi in chromosome and did the same thing (getting better scores than I do now). Its not that I'm crutching on cal logi to continue pubstomping... that is not at all the reason why I am posting to keep it the way it is. I am just trying to keep logis viable in PC, in which cal logi is actually fairly well balanced with its shield bonus. I'm not generally looking for fights, but if someone is coming after me... I stand a chance at least.

ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 855	Posted - 2013.07.11 15:00:00 - [11] - Quote also another thing I've been considering... a 10% damage increase on assaults would completely nullify the use of any other suit for sniping. Something to consider... scout sniping would be thing of the past.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1603	Posted - 2013.08.12 01:32:00 - [12] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: I figure I will bump this one more time, I added what I believe the missing suits' bonuses should be. Any predictions on what you think the new logi bonuses will be?
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1605	Posted - 2013.08.12 02:30:00 - [13] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: Logi Bro wrote: I figure I will bump this one more time, I added what I believe the missing suits' bonuses should be. Any predictions on what you think the new logi bonuses will be? Couldn't tell you since I am not a CCP employee (no I am not CCP Logibro) but something tells me they all have something completely different in mind than what I am recommending. 1.4 is infantry focused so I have been told, so if it will be soon without the TM, then it will be then. They've already said it'll be equipment based bonuses... So something like: Caldari: Nanohives bonus Gallente: Rep Tool? Amarr: Drop Uplinks Minmatar: Scanner maybe?