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0 Try Harder
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group
347
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Posted - 2013.05.10 17:47:00 -
[1] - Quote
This is NOT a troll thread. I just want an answer and clarification of what I and others have done, and what we should do. PLEASE do not make this thread into another troll CCP thread. If you do not have anything constructive to write, please do not write at all. Please read the entire post before responding. Thank you.
tl;dr Read the whole post. There is no tl;dr
Uprising is disappointing, but the posts made by many players make Uprising even more disappointing. It feels as though all of the feedback and data players posted on forums was ignored. All the time spent testing and reporting data was a complete waste. All the threads made by players were pointless.
I read Heinrich Jagerblitzen's post here. Heinrich wrote that the, "community's concerns are being heard at the highest levels thanks to your representatives on the CPM." I interpret this to mean that the community's concerns are now heard by CCP because the CPM is able to bring it up with them. Am I misinterpreting this post? Does this mean that our concerns were not heard before the CPM brought them to CCP?
I was further disheartened when I read, "everything from general dissatisfaction with item balancing, to input issues, to the frustrations we've all shared with the new skill tree were discussed extensively." All of this was already discussed extensively on forums before Uprising was released.
A few players spent millions of ISK testing specific things about how certain vehicles, mods and skills worked, if they were working as stated and intended, and if not what they actually did. None of them have complained about the ISK and time spent testing and submitting feedback to CCP that I know of. All of those players were happy to test everything, even if it meant that they would lose ISK and time that could be spent on and doing other things. These players, a number from the "top" corps, willingly gave information obtained at their own expense not only to CCP, but to the entire community too.
Numbers are nice, and I know that CCP is going to give the players lots of data, but this is not a game of spreadsheets. There are also skills, mods and vehicles that do not work the way the devs wanted. The PG skill has been a big problem for many vehicle drivers. ItGÇÖs the wording which confused them. A vehicle tester would have quickly seen that the wording needed to be changed, but someone looking at the skill without playing the game would not. Aiming, sensitivity and movement also cannot be found in a data dump. Logi LAVGÇÖs repair tool problems need someone testing it to find out that it does not work.
The list of things is much longer, I just mentioned a few things, but the point is simple. Get a few people who have given CCP lots of data for the tests, and specialize in the role. If they find out something that they do not like, perhaps weapon ranges and the like, they can tell CCP and CCP can decide what to do with that information.
For some reason CCP does not want to make a test server public, so my suggestion is to have some of the players who tested and posted information before go onto a test server. I feel like getting some player opinions will make the game better. Even just doing it, ie pulling a few people out, give them the new build to test, and give you private feedback would be fine too. It's not about self-gain, popularity, power or anything other than making the game better.
The players who test out new stuff are not getting power or replacing anyone. All they do is test and provide feedback and suggestions to the devs. It's the same thing they were doing on forums. The devs can listen to them or not, it's just simple feedback. They will not replace QA. QA is paid and does multiple things. Player testers are just giving an opinion of the new build from their perspective.
Getting some players who can give detailed feedback about the new builds is not taking any power away from the CPM. CPM still gives devs feedback about community issues, their role does not change in any way. Testers do nothing more than their opinion of the build, and problems they might have found. Many of the problems that came out in Uprising could have been found had there been players playing on a test server.
It's going to be hard finding people who want to put time into testing who are good. Many of the ones who did feel like CCP ignored all of their feedback. I'm sure many of the players who gave evidence, numbers and detailed feedback will not be doing that again anytime soon. Uprising is a disappointing build on many levels.
And about the role of CPMs, can one of you please get this to CCP? I would like CCP to see this feedback from me =] |
NOT slap26
Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation
43
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Posted - 2013.05.10 18:42:00 -
[2] - Quote
We need do need test servers +1 hotch |
ZDub 303
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group
73
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 20:42:00 -
[3] - Quote
Amen, a test server for new changes prior to release would help a lot. Uprising would never have been released in this state if even a hundred or so people were allowed to play it for a few days and give feedback. |
Dusty Nelson
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
3
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Posted - 2013.05.10 20:50:00 -
[4] - Quote
Test servers eventuallyGǪ.. Firstly CCP need to get the damn game out the door and working! |
Cosgar
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
631
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Posted - 2013.05.10 20:56:00 -
[5] - Quote
Don't quote me on this, but I think the CPM are the ones who have access to test servers. Whether or not CCP listened to their feedback is kind of up in the air if this is the case. |
Rynx Sinfar
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
600
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 20:59:00 -
[6] - Quote
http://penny-arcade.com/report/article/how-a-clever-player-with-a-useless-item-almost-took-down-eve-onlines-entire
Test servers is knowledge, knowledge is power. Speaking from someone who never played EvE and basing it on stories, the community has never been kind enough regarding mistakes to make CCP think any advantage wouldn't have value. Also if there was an obscure error (thinking Imperfects in closed beta here) there is nothing stopping a person from just being quiet and waiting(not that I think they did anything wrong). They could then activate it for rewards and tell CCP about it. As long as it doesn't obliterate something CCP generally doesn't undo damage done.
Speaking as a software developer, the above makes sense. In the same way I never got peeved at Fallout 3 for errors, it was impossible to not be riddled with them with the scoping. The team required would be massive and crumble under it's own weight. Have you ever seen a FPS as complex? The only thing that comes to mind is classic Mechwarrior. Oh god the required test cases.
There are 3rd parties that do professional testing, CCP probably has some source or another and they'd be writing up test documents to try and go through everything. it's incredibly hard to do even for the smaller projects I work on. There was a story on The Trenches about a guy who's job it was to shoot every map texture in the game with every gun type to make sure it worked right.
Changes often start long long before most of the info comes to light. Changes were probably already being made before SharpShooter hit full "holy crap must have". The Uprising change was massive and sweeping. Because anything asked for would have dozens of related and interacting items changed, they likely had to interpret requests as best as possible and hope it balanced right with all the new changes. You may think some requests are explicit, they are not. Oh god the vague responses in requests. "The thing on this page isn't working", thanks.
For every 1 good response there are dozens of bad ones to sort through. I mean taking flak is part of any business, but we all know the people who open their mouths the most shouldn't be doing so. Many responses are demands for whatever they like to be better. I find it hillarious that this morning 1/4th of the threads on the first page were Heavy complaints, meanwhile there are still so many legitimate issues with vehicles (many talked about today by devs) and I think the issue regarding lack of equipment slots for new logis is enormous. This is despite me being heavy. |
0 Try Harder
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group
357
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 20:25:00 -
[7] - Quote
This thread by Iron Wolf Saber shows how useful a test server can be. Putting in a test server, even if accessible to only a limited number of players, can only make the game better.
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Hey guys we know with Uprising quite a few items have been added to the market and its alot of chew, but CPM would like your help.
We know there are items in Uprising that are odd, erroneous or just plain wrong and we're asking for your help to ID all of them. Even if the CPM could use a test server, it would be unreasonable to ask them to do everything. Think of this as help from the community before the build goes live instead of after. It would be unreasonable to ask the CPM to go through the entire market looking for "odd, errorneous or just plain wrong". It is something that would take up far too much time, not something the CPM wants to do, and would take away from their role and what they would like to do. |
Veritas Vitae
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group
149
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 20:38:00 -
[8] - Quote
A suggestion for such a test server, in regards to skill points, would be to allow testers to add and remove SP from skills at will, so that you can guarantee a skill is working as intended, as well as whether or not the skill is fully broken or only partially. Things like having a test server with new builds, and modified arenas for testing weapon balances etc would help relieve the headache that is GD QQ over the launch of Uprising, and would make it so things are better balanced, and more enjoyable when a build officially launches. |
Tony Calif
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
2094
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 21:31:00 -
[9] - Quote
"It's going to be hard finding people who want to put time into testing who are good. Many of the ones who did feel like CCP ignored all of their feedback. I'm sure many of the players who gave evidence, numbers and detailed feedback will not be doing that again anytime soon. Uprising is a disappointing build on many levels."
This. It is as if feedback from previous builds is ignored, instead of continuing to influence CCPs future decisions. |
Mavado V Noriega
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
3123
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 00:32:00 -
[10] - Quote
Tony Calif wrote:"It's going to be hard finding people who want to put time into testing who are good. Many of the ones who did feel like CCP ignored all of their feedback. I'm sure many of the players who gave evidence, numbers and detailed feedback will not be doing that again anytime soon. "
This. It is as if feedback from previous builds is ignored, instead of continuing to influence CCPs future decisions.
this. |
|
Lance 2ballzStrong
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
1556
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 00:51:00 -
[11] - Quote
You get the feeling that CCP ignored all the feedback, and just relied on data gathered from pubgames.
You also get the feeling like the game / build was hardly tested in house. Like how could the tank turret glitch slip by? Or how could the HMG 20% dmg nerf slip through? Or the weird aiming?
I don't wanna seem too critical, but as the OP pointed out, it's like everything posted in the past was ignored |
Telcontar Dunedain
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
394
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 19:56:00 -
[12] - Quote
This game will continue to make everyone enraged every build until there is a test server.
The more people realize this and start to pressure CCP to renegotiate this point with SONY (and this is the sticking point from my conversations with ccp development, not the technical work) the sooner we will get this test server.
Most of the worst problems Dust514 has had for the last year have been directly the result of not having a test server.
Map sizes shrinking randomly, bizarre balance choices, audio glitches, hit detection getting worse in uprising (as it hit the real internet).
Time after time this has been shown.
People need to consistently feed this back to CCP and the CPM
TEST SERVER TEST SERVER TEST SERVER |
undeadsoldier90
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
423
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 20:04:00 -
[13] - Quote
0 Try Harder wrote:This is NOT a troll thread. I just want an answer and clarification of what I and others have done, and what we should do. PLEASE do not make this thread into another troll CCP thread. If you do not have anything constructive to write, please do not write at all. Please read the entire post before responding. Thank you. tl;dr Read the whole post. There is no tl;dr Uprising is disappointing, but the posts made by many players make Uprising even more disappointing. It feels as though all of the feedback and data players posted on forums was ignored. All the time spent testing and reporting data was a complete waste. All the threads made by players were pointless. I read Heinrich Jagerblitzen's post here. Heinrich wrote that the, "community's concerns are being heard at the highest levels thanks to your representatives on the CPM." I interpret this to mean that the community's concerns are now heard by CCP because the CPM is able to bring it up with them. Am I misinterpreting this post? Does this mean that our concerns were not heard before the CPM brought them to CCP? I was further disheartened when I read, "everything from general dissatisfaction with item balancing, to input issues, to the frustrations we've all shared with the new skill tree were discussed extensively." All of this was already discussed extensively on forums before Uprising was released. A few players spent millions of ISK testing specific things about how certain vehicles, mods and skills worked, if they were working as stated and intended, and if not what they actually did. None of them have complained about the ISK and time spent testing and submitting feedback to CCP that I know of. All of those players were happy to test everything, even if it meant that they would lose ISK and time that could be spent on and doing other things. These players, a number from the "top" corps, willingly gave information obtained at their own expense not only to CCP, but to the entire community too. Numbers are nice, and I know that CCP is going to give the players lots of data, but this is not a game of spreadsheets. There are also skills, mods and vehicles that do not work the way the devs wanted. The PG skill has been a big problem for many vehicle drivers. ItGÇÖs the wording which confused them. A vehicle tester would have quickly seen that the wording needed to be changed, but someone looking at the skill without playing the game would not. Aiming, sensitivity and movement also cannot be found in a data dump. Logi LAVGÇÖs repair tool problems need someone testing it to find out that it does not work. The list of things is much longer, I just mentioned a few things, but the point is simple. Get a few people who have given CCP lots of data for the tests, and specialize in the role. If they find out something that they do not like, perhaps weapon ranges and the like, they can tell CCP and CCP can decide what to do with that information. For some reason CCP does not want to make a test server public, so my suggestion is to have some of the players who tested and posted information before go onto a test server. I feel like getting some player opinions will make the game better. Even just doing it, ie pulling a few people out, give them the new build to test, and give you private feedback would be fine too. It's not about self-gain, popularity, power or anything other than making the game better. The players who test out new stuff are not getting power or replacing anyone. All they do is test and provide feedback and suggestions to the devs. It's the same thing they were doing on forums. The devs can listen to them or not, it's just simple feedback. They will not replace QA. QA is paid and does multiple things. Player testers are just giving an opinion of the new build from their perspective. Getting some players who can give detailed feedback about the new builds is not taking any power away from the CPM. CPM still gives devs feedback about community issues, their role does not change in any way. Testers do nothing more than their opinion of the build, and problems they might have found. Many of the problems that came out in Uprising could have been found had there been players playing on a test server. It's going to be hard finding people who want to put time into testing who are good. Many of the ones who did feel like CCP ignored all of their feedback. I'm sure many of the players who gave evidence, numbers and detailed feedback will not be doing that again anytime soon. Uprising is a disappointing build on many levels. And about the role of CPMs, can one of you please get this to CCP? I would like CCP to see this feedback from me =]
Maybe you should try harder.......
Only troll of the day continue. ....
|
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
4094
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 20:17:00 -
[14] - Quote
We're getting the developers to read the threads they started at least and bringing threads that has 'nutshell' of the issues to CCPs attention.
Understand though its monday, and launch day is tommorrow so... lots of burning hamsters running around the office atm.
Just right now a test server made available is simply not possible at the very moment. |
Telcontar Dunedain
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
399
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 18:42:00 -
[15] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:We're getting the developers to read the threads they started at least and bringing threads that has 'nutshell' of the issues to CCPs attention.
Understand though its monday, and launch day is tommorrow so... lots of burning hamsters running around the office atm.
Just right now a test server made available is simply not very possible at the very moment due to sony and psn nature of consoles.
It will never be possible if the CPM and the playerbase doesn't take responsibility for pushing for it.
|
Cyn Bruin
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
933
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 18:49:00 -
[16] - Quote
Test server wouldn't matter... why?
We were on a test server for 9 months and the game is still like this. We offered troll-free "positive" feedback and were still ignored.
A few minor suggestions might have made it in the game, but a majority of the stats and numbers that were crunched were downright ignored. |
Daedric Lothar
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
305
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 18:51:00 -
[17] - Quote
This thread has got to be the whiniest thread I have ever seen. Tell you guys what. How about you fork over a couple mill to fund development then you can say whatever you feel like about test servers and no one reads my comments... etc. etc.
Since no one here has bought 10,001 elite packs yet then please. shh. Stop reading and dissecting every statement ever made into the tiniest possible fraction of meaning. The guy who made the post isn't a professional writer with his own PR team.
Post your comments and trust they will read your comments. Stop being psychotic. I like this game and I know that at least some of my comments for improvements have been read. I have had a voice in the development of this game. |
Telcontar Dunedain
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
400
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 19:31:00 -
[18] - Quote
Cyn Bruin wrote: Test server wouldn't matter... why?
We were on a test server for 9 months and the game is still like this. We offered troll-free "positive" feedback and were still ignored.
A few minor suggestions might have made it in the game, but a majority of the stats and numbers that were crunched were downright ignored.
I agree that they need to be more responsive to problems for a test server to work.
However part of the problem is they seem terrified of admitting they made any mistake because its all in production.
The hit detection, range and balance issues would at least get some visibility before it goes live.
It works well for eve but who knows what the dust devs would do with it :( |
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